Ron 10
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rehmwa 2
This has been discussed elsewhere, but women newbie skydivers listen (learn) better than men newbie skydivers - it's a generalization, sorry about that, but it's what I've seen.
So I like to think that women get more free coaching because of the attitude, not because of the gender.
Example - I was working on Snowflake/Offset with a group. The video was ok, but not pretty. One teammate (guy) hit the ground and immediately noted that I didn't tell them it was a vertical and that's why he was having trouble during the dive. The video showed the trouble.
Regarding the video, he was pretty surprised since the cameraman also videotaped the pre-brief
. 1st thing I noted was it had a vertical - this was directed to his face and he was listening raptly. Then in the middle of the brief, he was watching my hands and listening to me while I discussed how much vertical and what the picture was, also how and when to stop the vertical, etc..... You get the idea.
A girl in this same group watched the video and noticed she had trouble with a sideways move. I explained some knee positioning for her, she thanked me and did it perfectly on the next dive.
Guess who I'd rather coach next time.
It's the same with newbies even though this example was more experienced people.
I'll coach newbies that argue and find 'excuses'. But only once. I don't care what gender they are.
Guys also tend to make fun of a good dirt dive (especially if there is a lot of info), same thing, if you want help, then pay attention. Sometimes it's fun to be intense about it.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
So I like to think that women get more free coaching because of the attitude, not because of the gender.
Example - I was working on Snowflake/Offset with a group. The video was ok, but not pretty. One teammate (guy) hit the ground and immediately noted that I didn't tell them it was a vertical and that's why he was having trouble during the dive. The video showed the trouble.
Regarding the video, he was pretty surprised since the cameraman also videotaped the pre-brief
. 1st thing I noted was it had a vertical - this was directed to his face and he was listening raptly. Then in the middle of the brief, he was watching my hands and listening to me while I discussed how much vertical and what the picture was, also how and when to stop the vertical, etc..... You get the idea.
A girl in this same group watched the video and noticed she had trouble with a sideways move. I explained some knee positioning for her, she thanked me and did it perfectly on the next dive.
Guess who I'd rather coach next time.
It's the same with newbies even though this example was more experienced people.
I'll coach newbies that argue and find 'excuses'. But only once. I don't care what gender they are.
Guys also tend to make fun of a good dirt dive (especially if there is a lot of info), same thing, if you want help, then pay attention. Sometimes it's fun to be intense about it.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
wow.. it really is true. skydivers DONT listen 
i wasnt talking about giving them dedicated coaching for free. all i was talking about was going out there and having fun with them. What is so hard to understand about this simple statement? sure, there's assholes out there that dont really understand the meaning of fun related to skydiving anymore, all they understand is being the best and being numbah one and all that other stuff, which is all gravy, but tends to intimidate and turn off fledging skydivers, such as me. The point of my post wasnt to advertise free coaching, but to just go out there, not to criticize and laugh at a newbie, but to go out there and have fun. No, you shouldnt prod and plead somebody to go jump with you, but maybe that newbie is just afraid that nobody wants to jump with them and doesnt want to deal with rejection. Maybe once you show them that not all experienced skydivers arent selfish "me me me" people, then they'll feel alot more confident in going out there and asking other people to jump and having a better time overall in the sport. *shrugs* but thats just me, and what could i POSSIBLY know, right? 
i wasnt talking about giving them dedicated coaching for free. all i was talking about was going out there and having fun with them. What is so hard to understand about this simple statement? sure, there's assholes out there that dont really understand the meaning of fun related to skydiving anymore, all they understand is being the best and being numbah one and all that other stuff, which is all gravy, but tends to intimidate and turn off fledging skydivers, such as me. The point of my post wasnt to advertise free coaching, but to just go out there, not to criticize and laugh at a newbie, but to go out there and have fun. No, you shouldnt prod and plead somebody to go jump with you, but maybe that newbie is just afraid that nobody wants to jump with them and doesnt want to deal with rejection. Maybe once you show them that not all experienced skydivers arent selfish "me me me" people, then they'll feel alot more confident in going out there and asking other people to jump and having a better time overall in the sport. *shrugs* but thats just me, and what could i POSSIBLY know, right?
rehmwa 2
going out there and having fun with them. What is so hard to understand about this simple statement
Depends on what you consider 'fun'. It is different for different people so it's not just a 'simple statement'.
Nice post to illustrate what is fun for some isn't fun for others. The writing sounds worked up, but I think you just clarifying.
We frequently grab a newbie (100 jumps) and put them in 4th with 3 from my 4-way team and design an all random dive just around the newbie's current skillset. It's pretty intense for some. But that's what is fun for us and we hope to share that feeling - we took one girl last year with 30 jumps and she did 13 points. Normally a disappointment for us, but huge for her - still fun for all of us though. For a real fresh newbie right off AFF, I'll take them 2-way, but with goals in mind for each jump. I don't get anything from a zoo load, so that's not 'fun'. It doesn't make people like me 'assholes' as you state, just that they have different ways to have fun. I don't play volleyball either unless we try to get 3 hits ending in a spike (we don't have to win or even be any good, but we have to try).
Some don't like it. They'd rather geek and dink around and not plan. No problems, but I don't do that and won't waste time on it. If someone wants that, then I'll go FF with them since I'm a beginenr in that area right now too (with only a couple hundred FF jumps) and they can have a stable base to fly about. (Still rather plan a FF too and stick with that plan)
But those that do like this format, have had the greatest time and talk about it for weeks. We had a big crew of newbies go to the tunnel last month specifically because we took them up for a 'taste' last year. They will be phenominal. So we are giving back bigtime in the area we care about and nobody buys those slots, we pay for our own.
A lot of new people grumble that they don't get attention, no one has guaranteed it. That's life. But a good attitude and demonstrating improvement is payoff for more than just them, it's also payoff for the experienced jumpers. And in the real world, those people are more fun to play with.
From a personal perspective, working with new people is great. But only if they want to improve. If they want to do zoo loads, then there are others that will do it with them already and they will get plenty of smiles that way. I'd rather work with those with an attitude that will make them good/great and safe jumpers in the future.
That's fun.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
So I like to think that women get more free coaching because of the attitude, not because of the gender.
Oh, come on, don't lie yourself and all people here
I'm damn sure anybody will choose to teach young cute ladies against wise polite man. It is nature and wi'll never change that
Like AndyMan says, we are much more than walking penises, we are flying penises!
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What can change the nature of a man ? (PlaneScape:Torment)
rehmwa 2
I'm damn sure anybody will choose to teach young cute ladies against wise polite man.
You make your decisions based on your priorities. I'm not you. It's attitude that matters.
Edit: They'll still be cuties at the bonfire - play with the gender thing there. You'll have more success.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
rehmwa 2
but tends to intimidate and turn off fledging skydivers, such as me
Who's problem is that? Sounds like yours.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Hi Tribal,
Wow, I think you have some inverted snobbery going on here.
Hmm. The skydivers I've found to be 'the best' and already (or aiming to be) 'numbah one' could be considered an inspiration to fledgling skydivers. You seem to have taken out a copyright on the word 'fun'. Some people actually find trying to improve their skydiving skills to be fun. I don't think it's up to you to denigrate people who are actually trying to achieve something.
I mean, yeah, those World Champion skydiving teams...What a bunch of miserable wankers. They hate skydiving really, they're just masochists.
This attitude is as rare as rocking horse shit and you know it.
Wants some tomato sauce with those chips on your shoulder, Tribal? Chill out a bit, be friendly, and soon it won't seem like such a horrible, badass world full of asshole masochistic skygods. Unless you prefer to see it that way, of course.
AA
Wow, I think you have some inverted snobbery going on here.
sure, there's assholes out there that dont really understand the meaning of fun related to skydiving anymore, all they understand is being the best and being numbah one and all that other stuff, which is all gravy, but tends to intimidate and turn off fledging skydivers, such as me.
Hmm. The skydivers I've found to be 'the best' and already (or aiming to be) 'numbah one' could be considered an inspiration to fledgling skydivers. You seem to have taken out a copyright on the word 'fun'. Some people actually find trying to improve their skydiving skills to be fun. I don't think it's up to you to denigrate people who are actually trying to achieve something.
I mean, yeah, those World Champion skydiving teams...What a bunch of miserable wankers.
They hate skydiving really, they're just masochists.
not to criticize and laugh at a newbie
This attitude is as rare as rocking horse shit and you know it.
*shrugs* but thats just me, and what could i POSSIBLY know, right?
Wants some tomato sauce with those chips on your shoulder, Tribal? Chill out a bit, be friendly, and soon it won't seem like such a horrible, badass world full of asshole masochistic skygods. Unless you prefer to see it that way, of course.
AA
no i'd prefer Salsa, not tomato sauce, please. Besides, who eats chips with tomato sauce? And you're absolutely right, the best skydivers in the world could definitely be considered as "idols" to fledging skydivers. In fact, there are many people at my own dropzone that i admire due to their kickass skills. i'm uh, not really getting your point though. and of course improving your own skills is fun, i'll admit that finally cementing a certain move or skill is a blast. however, i also find just going out and goofing around is fun. *shrugs* NOW, on the other hand, somebody mentioned zoo dives. I dont really like those, although i've been on quite a few. i'd never take more then one super unexperienced jumper with me, i like to be one on one so that in case things go wrong in the sky, i only have one person that i need to expedite away from.
Rocking horse shit? thats pretty creative, i have to tell you.
and actually i'm just being debative, i'm the sort that doesnt mind rocking the boat every once in a while. Dont take it so personal. Its just a conversation and i'm trying to keep it as friendly as a conversation between skydivers can possibly get. i will thank you guys with way more jumps then i probably ever will have for providing me and the others with your perspective, but the point of my post was to also maybe remind you guys of us wee jump number's perspectives as well.
"Beauty never slumbers, all is in her name,
but the rose remembers the dust from which it came"
And you're absolutely right, the best skydivers in the world could definitely be considered as "idols" to fledging skydivers. In fact, there are many people at my own dropzone that i admire due to their kickass skills. i'm uh, not really getting your point though. and of course improving your own skills is fun, i'll admit that finally cementing a certain move or skill is a blast. however, i also find just going out and goofing around is fun. *shrugs* NOW, on the other hand, somebody mentioned zoo dives. I dont really like those, although i've been on quite a few. i'd never take more then one super unexperienced jumper with me, i like to be one on one so that in case things go wrong in the sky, i only have one person that i need to expedite away from. Rocking horse shit? thats pretty creative, i have to tell you.
and actually i'm just being debative, i'm the sort that doesnt mind rocking the boat every once in a while. Dont take it so personal. Its just a conversation and i'm trying to keep it as friendly as a conversation between skydivers can possibly get.
i will thank you guys with way more jumps then i probably ever will have for providing me and the others with your perspective, but the point of my post was to also maybe remind you guys of us wee jump number's perspectives as well.
"Beauty never slumbers, all is in her name,
but the rose remembers the dust from which it came"
who eats chips with tomato sauce?
Everyone in the UK, I understand.
My point, to clarify, is that people who prefer to work on improving their skydiving as opposed to goofing around all the time are not necessarily assholes. I think that was the word you used.
I didn't take it personally by the way, as I don't consider myself to be on of these 'greats' to whom you refer. I am, however, an asshole, in case you weren't aware.
Ciao
AA
really? straight tomato sauce? no spices or peppers? hm. *shrugs* learn something new every day.
and that's quite alright because i can be an asshole at times, too. (as may be quite evident)
and that's quite alright because i can be an asshole at times, too. (as may be quite evident)
Not to highjack this thread, but, I thought the Brits
put viniger on there chips. I haven't been over the pond myself, but' when my kids got back from their 1st trip, they started putting it on their chips claiming they learned that in England.
What do I know. Hell, after that trip my daughter(13
at the time) sat down at the dinner table with a class of wine! She said that it was OK in Paris, then she explained why that wine didn't go with what we were having
OK. Back to your original argument!
put viniger on there chips. I haven't been over the pond myself, but' when my kids got back from their 1st trip, they started putting it on their chips claiming they learned that in England.
What do I know. Hell, after that trip my daughter(13
at the time) sat down at the dinner table with a class of wine! She said that it was OK in Paris, then she explained why that wine didn't go with what we were having
OK. Back to your original argument!
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"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49
JJohnson 0
The Brits have very strange habits all around: They smoke fags, eat spotted dick and call fries chips. I can only assume the tomato sauce is Ketchup. But as they invented darts I can forgive the Brits about anything.
Speaking of strange culinary habits, it finally became clear to me that most of the rest of the world puts ketchup on their hotdogs. Yet around Chicago even asking for ketchup is grounds for a lynching.
Speaking of strange culinary habits, it finally became clear to me that most of the rest of the world puts ketchup on their hotdogs. Yet around Chicago even asking for ketchup is grounds for a lynching.
JJ
"Call me Darth Balls"
"Call me Darth Balls"
Hmm. Sometimes gravy too, but only in the north and it's grim up there.
OK. I'm going backwards here.
Thank you Brits for darts! Helps alot on wind daysDon't even get ketchup near my hotdogs, brown mustard only!
Spotted Dick! WTF!?!
Smoking a fag! Last time I heard that it was said by a very experianced jumper who has been working with me (for free) for the last 6 months! I was smoking instead of packing and he wanted to dirt dive and make the next load. Needless to say, I put the "fag" out and packed!
There! Threads back on track!
Thank you Brits for darts! Helps alot on wind days
Don't even get ketchup near my hotdogs, brown mustard only!
Spotted Dick! WTF!?!
Smoking a fag! Last time I heard that it was said by a very experianced jumper who has been working with me (for free) for the last 6 months! I was smoking instead of packing and he wanted to dirt dive and make the next load. Needless to say, I put the "fag" out and packed!
There! Threads back on track!
----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49
Thats why I had to start charging people...I try to help, and I get an argument...Hell kinda like here
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