TM or TI?

[peek 21]

TandemMaster or Tandem Instructor?

I'm posting this to the general skydiving forum because the question I am about to ask is directed to everyone, because sooner or later all sydivers are going to refer to the person in back of the Tandem by some name.

What name do you use to refer to this person and why?

I took a quick look at the RWS and SE web sites, and found that most recent references are to TI and earlier references were to TM, although I found web pages that had mixed references, i.e., a link using one name to a document titled with the other name.

[cpoxon 0]

Instructor. Both the USPA SIM and the BPA Operations Manual refer to them as such. Otherwise, the people on the front would be passengers, and not students, and then we'd be airlines.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[diablopilot 2]

As I'm sure you know TM is a hang on from when the sport had "jump masters" hence the "Tandem Master".


I far prefer Tandem Instructor.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[slotperfect 7]

I am comfortable with either term, but I think "TI" is a better fit, just like "Tandem Student" is a better fit than Tandem Passenger."

On both sides of the coin, I believe that 100% of people making a tandem jump learn at least a little something from their experience, and that 100% of the TIs are able to successfully provide some sort of learning environment.

I have learned a lot myself by reading posts here in the forums from more experienced Tandem Instructors that truly see each tandem as an opportunity to create growth in the sport by teaching during every one. Granted, some students will be more receptive than others based on their expectations.

Great post.

Arrive Safely

John

[Hooknswoop 19]

Depends on the DZ and the person doing the tandems.

TM: A jumper w/ a tandem rating that does tandem jumps where the pasenger is like a passenger in a car, one drives, one rides.

TI: A jumper w/ a tandem rating where the jumper teaches their passenger about skydiving such as correct body position for free-fall (not "kick me in the butt), altitude awareness, deploying the parachute and flying the parachute all the way through the landing.

Derek

[kallend 2,146]

FAR Part 105 states:

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Section 105.45: Use of tandem parachute systems.

(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless--
(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:
(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist--
(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and (iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and
(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.
(v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used.
(2) The person acting as parachutist in command:
(i) Has briefed the passenger parachutist before boarding the aircraft. The briefing must include the procedures to be used in case of an emergency with the aircraft or after exiting the aircraft, while preparing to exit and exiting the aircraft, freefall, operating the parachute after freefall, landing approach, and landing.
(ii) Uses the harness position prescribed by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute equipment.
(b) No person may make a parachute jump with a tandem parachute system unless--
(1) The main parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger, the parachutist in command making the next jump with that parachute, or a person under the direct supervision of a certificated parachute rigger.
(2) The reserve parachute has been packed by a certificated parachute rigger in accordance with Sec. 105.43(b) of this part.
(3) The tandem parachute system contains an operational automatic activation device for the reserve parachute, approved by the manufacturer of that tandem parachute system. The device must--
(i) Have been maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions, and
(ii) Be armed during each tandem parachute operation.
(4) The passenger parachutist is provided with a manual main parachute activation device and instructed on the use of that device, if required by the owner/operator.
(5) The main parachute is equipped with a single-point release system.
(6) The reserve parachute meets Technical Standard Order C23 specifications.

So it looks like "Parachutist in Command" is the official title, who must have taken a "tandem instructor" course.

And the person up front is a "passenger".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[slotperfect 7]

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"parachutist in command" & "passenger parachutist "

I reckon because it's an aviation organization, containing aviation terms like "pilot in command" and "passenger" already, the FAA was more comfortable with that verbage.

I think the FAA and those quoting the regulation are a minority in the use of those terms.

Arrive Safely

John

[SniperCJ 0]

Ive used both, but I prefer Tandem Instructor. Im a "Master" of nothing...

[AndyMan 7]

The vast majority of tandem jumps are not "learning jumps", and the passenger really is along for the ride.

I refer to "Tandem Masters".

Very seldom do i see TM's teach anything for more than 5 minutes, usually in the plane, and usually only enough to make the event safer.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Very seldom do i see TM's teach anything for more then 5 minutes, usually in the plane, and usually only enough to make the event safer.

Not to be rude but, try getting a Tandem Instructor rating and you'll see it takes more than just 5 minutes , Coach....
It's "Instructing" the student on how to do a safe and fun skydive, and can be taught in a very brief and to the point manner if needed.

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[crutch 0]

Either/or the only people I think it makes a difference to are lawyers and those of us who need to feel our roll is bigger than it really is. Older Tandem Msters/Instructors go by the former, the later was changed later on. To me it is kinda like the AOD/AAD thing. The lawyers asked that it be cahnged from openning to activation because the AOD/AAD didn't guarntee a reserve openning.

blue skies,

art

[thelem 0]

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As I'm sure you know TM is a hang on from when the sport had "jump masters".

In the UK we call the person who decides on the exit order of the load, and tells the first group to get out the jump master for that load, I don't know if you are refering to a different meaning that is no longer in use?

As for TM/TI, I prefer TM/passenger. TI/TS just sounds too PC to me. As has been mentioned above, I have been told that we have to call them students, because our aircraft are not maintained to the standards required to carry passengers.

[livendive 8]

When talking to my students, I always refer to myself as their instructor. When talking to other jumpers, the terms are interchangeable but I think TM gets used more often than not (e.g. "We've got 8 tandems on the ground and only two tandem masters, so someone else is going to have to do such & such")

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydived19006 4]

I’d vote for Tandem Instructor. I/we do a 10 min instruction session with every student we take up. I think they get a lot more out of the jump if they have a basic understanding of the safety systems, progression of the jump, ect. Regardless of whether they ever jump again, they know immensely more about skydiving than when they walked in the door!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[bodypilot1 0]

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When talking to my students, I always refer to myself as their instructor.

What type of Instructor are you with just an A license?
Just curious?

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

When talking to my students, I always refer to myself as their instructor.

What type of Instructor are you with just an A license?
Just curious?

-

Aha! I suspect he's like me.
I have an A license. And a C. And a D.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot1 0]

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I suspect he's like me.

You suspect?
With some of the information given on here you never know, and I choose never to suspect.
Let's hope he has more than just an A to be calling himself an Instructor.

And why would you not want to post your highest rating?
-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

When talking to my students, I always refer to myself as their instructor.

What type of Instructor are you with just an A license?
Just curious?
-

Umm...the "good" type I hope! Anyhow, I don't have "just" an A-license.

Blues,
Dave
A-24449, B-21190, C-28840, D-21415
S/L-I, IAD-I, TAN-I (hopefully adding AFF-I in a couple weeks)
S&TA-03/05

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bodypilot1 0]

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(hopefully adding AFF-I in a couple weeks)

Cool.
Good luck at the AFF coarse.

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[nightjumps 1]

I prefer Tandem Instructor since I went thru the USPA Tandem Instructor rating course and specialize in the Advanced Freefall Program.

For me, a Tandem Master is someone who got their rating from the manufacturer only and a Tandem Instructor has both manufacturer and USPA TI rating.

[AggieDave 6]

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For me, a Tandem Master is someone who got their rating from the manufacturer only and a Tandem Instructor has both manufacturer and USPA TI rating.

I feel the same way, although it really doesn't make any sense for someone to do that now, although from talking to an examiner, he still does those courses (manufacture only, not USPA). Strange.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

A tandem "master" is a person who only has a manufacturer's rating and has not applied for the USPA rating. There are plenty of these people out there and I have no problem calling people who run to the airplane barefooted and yell "who is number 26?" a tandem "master" or simply "meat hauler."

I am a Tandem Instructor as I am rated as such by the USPA and also maintain and use every other rating the organization offers which I find merit in. I teach the class, brief the students, take them on the skydive, and discuss the other ways to get into the sport.