EricaH 0 #1 June 2, 2004 So, say your on jump run; one of the last groups out. You notice that the spot has become VERY long. If you exit, you'd have to pull high to get back. You ask for a go around. What happens? Does the pilot have no problem w/ this & turns right around = no problems. Do they refuse to go around; then do you 1. not get charged for the jump or 2. dz charges you anyway. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 June 2, 2004 at my dz if you don't jump and it's your decision, you pay. The pilot would do a go around if necessary, but it's usually his decision. Not always easy to habe a megalong jumprun with a porterscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 June 2, 2004 I've asked for go-arounds at both perris and elsinore. both places, I've gotten them no problem. Both times, the plane was full of two-ways, and some took a while to exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #4 June 2, 2004 it really depends on the pilot. at our dz, go arounds are a given. but i doubt they'd refund your money if you denied the go around and didn't jump.. then that's kinda your problem. but... i've also been to dzs and gotten hosed, asked for a go around, and been told that "they don't do that there". as a freeflyer, and one of the last groups out usually, that is annoying as piss. it's not my fault that i get hosed, and my jump ticket costs the same as the jump ticket of the first one out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #5 June 2, 2004 This is exactly what I'm thinking. If I ask for a go-around & don't get one, by that time, I'm really hosed & will have to pull round 6; but if I land w/ the plane, I've still paid. I totally understand the economics of a dz, however, that just sucks!! Thanks everyone for input (present & future). There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmchristian 0 #6 June 2, 2004 Sounds like a good opportunity for a tracking dive to me!! Or for my fellow flockers, it is a good spot. Chris -------- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy s#$* what a ride!'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #7 June 2, 2004 QuoteSounds like a good opportunity for a tracking dive to me!! Or for my fellow flockers, it is a good spot. Heh heh one time our pilot wanted a go-around, just by the time it was an excellent spot for a guy who wanted to pull at 6 and for me in my birdman suit. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Lemme out! Luckily he did.... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 June 2, 2004 Nobody should ever be coerced into jumping a bad spot simply for financial reasons. It is the drop zone's responsibility to give you a reasonable spot. To put forth their best effort in ensuring you'll get back to what is considered the drop zone's landing area. That doesn't mean you'll always have the "Hollywood" spot and be able to swoop the beer line on the grass, but you'll have a reasonable expectation to make it back to within the "normal" drop zone boundries. Outside of that, call for a go around. There -may- be a specific and real reason why the pilot can not accomodate your request for a go-around: ATC, Fuel, You're not being reasonable. If the pilot consistantly has a problem with that, then talk to the Chief Pilot. If you still get no satisfaction, talk to the DZO. If you don't like his answer, take your dollars (and as many of your friends as you can) and go to another drop zone. BTW, I find that if you get to actually know the pilots, they have a tendancy to work with you quite a bit better. If everything is going good at your dz as far as spots, let the pilots know you appreciate their efforts.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #9 June 2, 2004 at my home DZ, the pilots have no problem doing go arounds. of course, we are in a C-182 so I don't think the pilot minds spending 1 minute more gas when we've just used 15 minutes of it. he has refused go arounds very rarely when we are low on fuel though. but once at a boogie in a CASA, a group took too long to exit and hosed the spot. about 10 people were still on the plane, asked for a go around, and the pilot started screaming at us and cursing. he finally gave us a go around though, but he yelled at us to exit while he was still turning and cursing. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #10 June 2, 2004 Quotelet the pilots know you appreciate their efforts. Oh, we certainly do!! Thank you for a well thought out response. This is not typically a problem @ my dz. And often enough there happens to be an AFF or tandem right behind me & the dz staff member asks for a go-around. When staff asks, they usually get it. Actually, it's a rare time we ask & don't get one. It's just a general concern. And I'm thinkin of speakin up next time I don't feel like pulling @ 5.5k. However, most likely the dzo would tell me I should exit on the pilot's GPS command & pull high if I don't think I'm close enough. It kinda sucks. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #11 June 2, 2004 I was on a plane one time when someone asked for a go-around while the plane was directly over the DZ. This person then closed the door and did not allow anyone else to pass him to the exit in order to jump. Pilot stayed on jump run until the end then did his go around. In other words we were in the plane for a LOOOOOOOONG time. Later, on conversing with the jumper, it was discovered that he was unfamiliar with jump run when the otter door was facing the lake and did not see that the DZ was directly below the plane. He apologized to everyone of course. So, yes, while our pilots will do go-arounds if necessary, best be sure that the spot is not too bad so you don't hose anyone who is willing to jump from that spot. . .or at least ask before asking for the go-around. IMO, if you don't like the spot, its your skin, so don't jump. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #12 June 2, 2004 Quotehe finally gave us a go around though, but he yelled at us to exit while he was still turning and cursing. bad business. yes, the dropzone is a business. and if they were treating customers that way, i would pack up and move on. that is unreasonable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 June 2, 2004 If I'm the last group in the plane... I'll take the long spot and deal with it. If there are more then 2-3 groups in the plane still I'll ask for the go around. Issues come in planes like the Casa that have extremely fast jump runs (about 15-20 knots faster then an Otter) where the only way to see your spot is to hang over and look down. Just looking out only tells you where you have been, not where you are. Some times spots look good looking out the back, but if you look over and down the spot becomes bad. Reverse is also true some times. Spoting tailgates is hard since the more time you take looking at the spot just puts you and your group further from the DZ. With the increasing fuel costs I've noticed DZ's are'nt volenteering go arounds, but will do them if asked.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #14 June 2, 2004 QuoteIf I'm the last group in the plane... I'll take the long spot and deal with it. The long spot doesn't bother me... Opening high doesn't bother me... The thought of if I chopped my brand new canopy, it's going to land in Lake Elsinore - that bothers me... and I'll ask for a 180 rather than a full go-around. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #15 June 2, 2004 QuoteThe thought of if I chopped my brand new canopy, it's going to land in Lake Elsinore - that bothers me yeah, that would bother me too. . .ick!________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 June 2, 2004 A 180 has issues since now to avoid putting the rest of the load out too far downwind you are now hoping to get out just far enough upwind to make it back while other groups are falling on top of you while you head towards the DZ. Just go for the go around if its more then 2 groups.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #17 June 2, 2004 I knew you'd jump on this... I should have been more specific. The 180 isn't over top of the original jump run, but parallel to it. And I wasn't referring to multiple groups, I meant with us being the last group out. We do full go-arounds with multiple groups all the time. It's all good. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 June 2, 2004 I only bring it up since I have been on loads where the jumpers want exactly that, a 180 right down the same jump run again. Then they don't understand the safety issues on why a 180 is a bad idea.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #19 June 3, 2004 I don't think that I've ever jumped anywhere that I wouldn't jump at again (even Pecan Grove...lol), but if a pilot refused to give me a go-around, then that's not a place I want to be. WTF is THAT? It would never dawn on me that a dz's policy might be to refuse a go-around when the spot is bad. Lindsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fergs 0 #20 June 3, 2004 Well you must always realise that there a times where a go-around is a safety issue – and so the pilot must be prepared to follow a go-around request. Years ago I had a cavalier attitude – “who cares about a bad spot”, I thought, “worst thing that can happen is a walk”. True sometimes, but I soon learned not all the time. It was a 182 load in Hawaii. The guy spotting the load did the same run in and cut that he’d last done 4 hours ago. Unfortunately the wind has swung 180 degrees during those 4 hours. He called cut and we climbed out and turned some 4-way points. I must say, I became a little suspicious when the guy who had spotted pulled out of the formation at 5 grand. But I hadn’t checked the ground, either during climb-out or in free fall. Nor had the other two. The other 3 of us didn’t break off until 3500. All three of us landed in the ocean. The spotter was the only one to make it back past the shore-line. By virtue of the fact that I’d tracked away from the formation, yet out-to-sea, I landed farthest out – unfortunately way out. The result was that I lost my new main canopy (it was its’ 3rd jump as it was brand-new that day), trashed my alti and dytter and came a little too close to drowning for comfort. Couple of morals came out of that jump: 1. Always check the spot. 2. Never be afraid to ask for a go-around 3. If the pilot refuses a go-around and exiting would risk a landing hazard, and then be prepared to land with the aircraft. 4. Do not be embarrassed to land with the aircraft – but do be embarrassed if you break an ankle due to landing in the jungle when a go-around could have been requested. 5. If you land in water – cut your main away as soon as you are floating. Disconnect your RSL first (if you have one). 6. If you want to hold on to your main, swim around and hold it by the pilot chute. 7. Do not under any circumstances remain connected to your main after a water landing. When it gets waterlogged it WILL sink. When it sinks it will do so very fast and it WILL go down with all that is attached to. If you are still attached when that happens YOU WILL drown. Sorry, I got a little off the go-around subject – but it’s a relevant. Stay safe and tell all your whuffo friends why you are always grinning. Blue skies, fergs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #21 June 3, 2004 Another lesson to be learned . . . If you're turning points and somebody, ANYBODY, pulls out of the formation -- STOP TURNING POINTS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON. As a camera flyer, I know that I can see the ground (well actually it's kind of my job) and I can be far more aware of the spot than my team mates cranking points. If something wacky has happened and I can see we've drifted into a -really bad- spot, I drop down on-level and pull so the team can see it. I've only had to do this once or twice over the course of several years of competitive camera flying, but the team has always appreciated it. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #22 June 4, 2004 People usually don't have to ask for a go around from me since I let people jump during the turn. I run tear drop, circular, and oval jump runs. If they're asking for a go around I'm usually wondering "Go around from what? We just circled the whole airport once!" LOL Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #23 June 4, 2004 QuoteIf they're asking for a go around I'm usually wondering "Go around from what? We just circled the whole airport once!" hehehee - that's good!! Makes it pretty obvious that they haven't been paying attn to jump run either. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calphoto 0 #24 June 4, 2004 I will always do a go-around if asked, and I will never tell a jumper to jump. They're the ones who have to make an unpowered landing, and if they land off it is THEIR responsibility. That is not to say that I have not been pissed off at jumpers who hang in the door (thus screwing everyone behind them) or call for a go-around when my GPS (and my calibrated butt) is telling me that we are within 50 feet of the spot that has been working all day. But we talk about it on the ground after the load and over beers. The decision to go is the jumper's. I just strongly advise...Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #25 June 4, 2004 What about use the whole dive tracking towards the dz and open at a good spot? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
