Suicide at the DZ (was: fatality in scotland)

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

It has been seven months since my recently divorced husband and father of my two year old daughter (at the time) committed suicide. I feel deeply sad for the family, especially the children, wife and mother of the suicider. There are some things I would like to pass on from my experience of suicide:

First, suicide is truly a selfish act.
Those who know the family of the deceased, please reach out to them. It still amazes me to this day that the people who made the biggest difference to me during my plight, were two women here on DZ.com who were complete strangers and reached out to me in a way that really made a huge difference. The thing that angered me most, was people who posted about the incident who knew nothing about what they were talking about. "Friends" who I had never heard of popping up out of nowhere who were posting inaccurate info and all of the sudden "knowing" every detail of his life. Really people, you can speculate all you want, but sometimes that hurts the people who were close to that individual at a very intense emotional time.
It is my belief that the suicide of a loved one is one of the most painful things to ever have to face.

My heartfelt sympathies go out to the family of the suicider. If any of you are reading this, some very decent advice was given to me: If you sit and wonder and try to answer the question of why the person you loved would do such a thing, Don't. You will only make yourself crazy. Please make sure to talk to somebody: a counselor, psychologist, or friend as often and as frequently as you feel you need.

This type of pain is too heavy for someone to carry on their own. Expect to go from opposite extremes emotionally, from anger to sadness to emptiness and don't expect your feelings to be rational. Suicide is not a rational thing and to expect your reaction to it to be rational is expecting too much.

Try not to lay blame on anyone including yourself. It may be a natural reaction but there is truly nothing you or anyone else could have done. To think we can control the actions of another is as silly as thinking we can control someone else's thoughts.

I feel especially sad for the children. It is most unfair to them how someone so close to them (a parent) can practically destroy and leave them behind like that. I will never understand intentionally leaving a child behind but like I said, don't try to understand, it will only make you crazy.

The pain will lessen over time and your life will go back to "normal" eventually but don't "expect" to ever completely get over it. I don't expect it and I try not to have huge expectations of myself when dealing with it. Love each other and take good care of yourselves.

Peace and love to the family of Ally. Stay strong.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[billvon 3,116]

>Fact : It did no favours for either his friends/family or skydiving.

True, but I think that misses the point

(from another post)
>suicide is truly a selfish act.

True to an extent. However, when it comes right down to it, we are all responsible for our own lives. Smoking - skydiving - buying a fast car - riding a motorcycle - all selfish choices, because we choose to risk our lives for fun.

But there is something far more selfish - and that is the idea that someone else's pain is more significant than someone's life. We all have the right to do what we want with our lives, and that includes how to end it (IMO.) I would hope that most people avail themselves of the right to end their own lives only when it's the least bad of many choices - i.e. they will die a painful death in a few months anyway from a brain tumor, and this will let them die while still coherent and able to make such decisions. Or they might choose to give their lives for a cause they truly believe in, such as a soldier who willingly goes in to a fight that he knows will kill him, or a protester who goes on a hunger strike to make his position known. Sometimes they even kill themselves for reasons we wouldn't agree with. In that case I'd try everything I could think of to talk them out of it, but in the end the decision is always theirs.

I've seen several opinions in this thread that go along the lines of "I can't believe he killed himself! What an asshole. This might make it harder for me to jump!" To me, that's the most selfish attitude I've seen in quite a while. He took his own life, for reasons that we would no doubt have a hard time understanding. That's how much pain he was in. I can't generate much sympathy for people who are worried their insurance rates mught go up, compared to what he went through.

[sweep 0]

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Sorry, didn't look at the date.

Yes, it is true that alot of friends from his home club in St Andrews attended the service. However, the skydivers at the DZ where he performed his last jump, Skydive Strathallan, were very few.


Report: Here

ltdiver

It doesn't say "very few". It says that the group from Strathallan (where he jumped occasionally and often on Friday nights when the DZ is quieter) was "much smaller" than the group from his home DZ. But that is to be expected : people at his home DZ knew him better, he had a lot of friends there.

The vast majority of people on this site who have read and discussed posts in these threads did not attend the funeral. And probably wouldn't have done even if it was 10 minutes down the road from them. Because they are angry? Or perhaps because although they know his name and a little of his story and may even feel they have a connection they didn't know him, and couldn't feel comfortable calling themselves one of his friends.

The concept of people shunning the funeral has been invented by the papers because it is a good story. The truth is that his friends and family came from many places and went to the funeral. Some people didn't know him that well and chose not to go.

But beside even those facts, grief and mourning is a personal affair. Of course it's important for a family to see a person's friends come to say farewell. But everyone handles these things differently and I wouldn't be comfortable being told to go to a funeral or not to go to a funeral (for anyone, close or not) by someone else. In fact I would consider it to be none of their business.

And if you're interested, the newspaper article saying that everyone was boycotting the funeral was printed because the club was asked who was going and the journalist was told that it was a personal decision and not anything the club should, could or would comment on on their behalf.

Please don't use articles in the Daily Record, or any other media outllet, to guess what people are thinking from the other side of the ocean. [No personal offence intended to anyone]

Sweep

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Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[freeflynick 0]

Thanks for setting the records straight. I can't believe people are still reading the papers, taking what is said and then putting into their own words in posting here....havn't these people learnt yet!??
Knowing the people at Strathallan, and knowing Alistair and his friends, I was trying to figure out where the reporter got this shite from.....I thought he maybe sniffed out a disgruntled jumper and used their words as the view of the entire DZ or something equally as weak. But it looks like he just made it up, as usual.
And now the poor guys at Strathallan have another funeral to deal with, one that will probably be even more difficult to deal with since Andy fought long and hard to beat his illnesses and stay with us.......
My thoughts and love go to Andy's family and his skydiving family at Strathallan and elsewhere.

[likearock 2]

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I beg to differ. In the general public's mind.... We all have a "death wish"

This is, in my opinion, a fallacy perpetuated only by skydivers.

That would be great, if it were true. Unfortunately, what happened after the Hilder death last July 4 suggests otherwise.

For months we read about a cut-and-dried murder. A skydiver's rig was sabotaged, surgically and methodically by someone who obviously understood a whole lot about what they were doing. To many of us, this was an unheard of, cold-blooded thing for any human being to perpetrate,

Then all of a sudden comes the report that evidence points to suicide. But besides the fact that that evidence is far from convincing, there is one small problem. Nobody who knew the victim saw any of the telltale signs of a suicidal personality. No depressions, no painful admissions to friends, no indirect signs whatsoever. Instead, he appeared to all who knew him to be an exceptionally happy guy with everything to look forward to.

But then of course, he was a skydiver, wasn't he? Everyone knows what a crazy, suicidal sport skydiving is. And that was enough to give the cops the cover they needed to get away with a finding of suicide. I doubt they would have had the balls to try the same move if he had been murdered while on a fishing boat.

Wayne

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

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(from another post)
>suicide is truly a selfish act.

True to an extent. However, when it comes right down to it, we are all responsible for our own lives. Smoking - skydiving - buying a fast car - riding a motorcycle - all selfish choices, because we choose to risk our lives for fun.

But there is something far more selfish - and that is the idea that someone else's pain is more significant than someone's life. We all have the right to do what we want with our lives, and that includes how to end it (IMO.) I would hope that most people avail themselves of the right to end their own lives only when it's the least bad of many choices - i.e. they will die a painful death in a few months anyway from a brain tumor, and this will let them die while still coherent and able to make such decisions. Or they might choose to give their lives for a cause they truly believe in, such as a soldier who willingly goes in to a fight that he knows will kill him, or a protester who goes on a hunger strike to make his position known.

Billvon,
You have some redeeming points here but I have to disagree with those points in this instance and in the instance of my ex. Again, I will not speculate as to the reasons why Ally did this, I did not know him and I did not know his history. I did however, know my husband and his history and his reasons and I do not consider them good enough to make a decision like he did.

Either way, in my opinion, when you have a child who is dependent on you, you just don't do that. Period, no questions asked and if you do, you are selfish. I am not talking about the person who goes off to war to serve his/her country and gets shot down. I am not talking about euthanasia or people who would otherwise die a tragic or painful death.

I am talking about the final and ultimate solution to the temporary problems in life we all face. Many of us have been there a time or two in life when we were so scared or tired or hurt or whatetever that we thought about getting off the roller coaster. And you know what? We all managed to pull ourselves out of the rut, get our asses in gear and go on. If you happen to be all alone in life without underage children who rely on you and no one gives a crap about you anyway and you want to end your life, okay. But when you choose to bring a child into the world you chose to take on the responsibility of caring for that child as a priority to your own self. Leaving them behind in that way is completely unacceptable in my book. So on that point we can just agree to disagree and that is okay.

Why should an innocent child have their life torn apart or destroyed because of someone else's decision to end their life? Is the pain that those children will have to endure the rest of their lives worth it? How about if a parent is murdered? There is recourse for that in court to a person who takes someone else's life. Although the issue may be redundant after the fact, it is no coincidence that suicide is illegal.

Edited to add: To skydive and to ride motorcycles is to live. Unless you are careless, reckless or have a death wish while engaging in those things, it may be selfish because they pose a greater risk, but not even close to someone who commits suicide.

Sometimes I have thought I am selfish for skydiving when I am the last parent my daughter has. Trust me, I have really put myself through the ringer on that one. I also love to ride motorcycles. Having a child makes me much more careful and deliberate about my actions. Because I have her to consider, I am more cautious. I don't stop living or give up who I am, that would make me unhappy. But I do give her the respect and consideration of doing all I can to stay safe and come home to her at the end of every day. That is way different than intentionally taking myself away from her forever.

Life is for the living, death is not.

Peace and blue skies.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Erroll 80]

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I beg to differ. In the general public's mind.... We all have a "death wish"

This is, in my opinion, a fallacy perpetuated only by skydivers.

That would be great, if it were true. Unfortunately, what happened after the Hilder death last July 4 suggests otherwise.........

.......Everyone knows what a crazy, suicidal sport skydiving is.

I would like to see any evidence that the police were influenced by this perception.

The only time one sees statements like your's above is in the tabloid press and on skydiving forums. The general public do not share that view.

[AdD 1]

I don't think anybody has the right to decide what is an acceptable way to kill yourself. I could care less if someone involves the sport in their suicide. A loss of a friend from the dz is always going to be a tragedy no matter how it happens.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream