AggieDave 6 #1 July 27, 2004 Looking at our current fleet of jump A/C, we have planes such as the King Air, the Otter, Beech 99, etc, all former passenger planes, how long do you think it will be until we see the PC12 being used? At first glance, it looks like it could be a good jump plane, especially since a freight version (with a larger door) is supposed to go into production as well. Also, a single engine T-tail looks good too. Do those in the know (diverdriver, etc) see this A/C as possibly becoming a useful jump plane and how long do you think it will be until it happens?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 July 27, 2004 The going rate for a used PC-12 is still over $2 mil so it's gonna be a while. I don't know the dimensions of the cargo door, but it sure looks jumpable to me. Price has got to come down to a point where it can compete with caravans, etc though, which is about a 50% decrease from the current prices. Airstair door would be nice... load from the front, jump from the back... I think we could get used to that. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #3 July 27, 2004 Do you think it would hold more than the 10 the 'conventional' turbine porter will haul?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 July 27, 2004 I think the PC-12 is set up with 9 passenger seats. I'm assuming you can get a few more than that in there with the seats removed, but I have no clue about center of gravity issues, takeoff distance, and all that stuff that determines how many jumpers you can actually take and whether or not it might make a good jump plane. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 July 27, 2004 this might give you some nice answers... to me it would be a beautiful jump baby and no, AggieDave, we do not drop bombs with this one... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 July 27, 2004 One of the Jumpers at my old home DZ has one, beautiful plane, fun ride. It will never be a jumpship. I'm told the aft cargo door is important for integrity of the structure of the airframe. Basicaly flight with out it means no tail.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 July 27, 2004 QuoteBasicaly flight with out it means no tail..... Bah, who needs it...oh. That's why I was asking, since it *looks* like it would be a badass jumpplane.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #8 July 27, 2004 Better buy a caravan. Far better economic. Pilatus makes nice airplanes, but way too expensive. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dninness 4 #9 July 27, 2004 Buddy of mine just got hired to fly PC-12s, and I did some "back of the envelope" calculations based on the numbers he gave me. As I recall, it would be "King Air-ish" in terms of number of jumpers to haul (ie. 10-12) vs. fuel load, etc. Cheaper to fly, hopefully, due to only one engine. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but I think we figured its performance (ie. rate of climb) would be similar to that of a Caravan when loaded, but slightly better as its a LOT cleaner than a Caravan.. Then there is that pesky detail of the door.. NIN D-19617, AFF-I '19 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #10 July 27, 2004 Looks like they've thought of the door issue... Attached is their "para" cabin layout. Looks like it has an inward swinging door. Probably just needs a beef up around the door frame. Edit: This is a layout for the PC-12M, not a standard PC-12. Dunno if it could be converted. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #11 July 27, 2004 no attachment...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #12 July 27, 2004 Ha... it was there, I swear! I even looked at it after posting. Somehow I hit the edit post button and deleted the attachment. I shouldn't be allowed to operate a computer within 2 hours of waking up... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 July 27, 2004 PC-12 is designed to compete directly with smaller/older King Airs. When skydivers will be able to afford PC-12s is a life-cycle question. Remember that most of the King Airs currently hauling jumpers are close to 40 years old. We can only afford them after it becomes prohibitively expensive to maintain leather upholstery, de-icing boots, pressurized cabins, IFR instrument panels, etc. I suspect that PC-12s will only be slightly less expensive to maintain than King Airs. Granted, there is one fewer engines, however, cost of spare parts is often driven by the size of the fleet. The more old versions of that airframe are built, the lower the cost of spare parts. For example, these days, the cheapest way to buy spare parts for 40 year old King Airs is to find one with timed-out engines and strip it for parts. In conclusion, the PC-12 is a pretty airplane and eventually will make a decent jump plane, just don't hold your breath. In the meantime the rest of us will be flinging our asses out of tired, old Caravans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d604 0 #14 July 27, 2004 Ahhh PC12, I've known about this a/c for some time as a drop ship I still have my Flying magazine from years back when they did a cover story on it. I think there have been a few used for jumping some where in Europe, I'm thinking France. I'm sure in the next 10 - 15 years they will be more common as jump ships once the used price comes down. Until then I will have to wait for my dream ship and drool when they fly into and out of the airport. Sean PC-12 Performance (Standard) Takeoff Distance Over 50 ft Obstacle = 2,300 ft / 700 m. Landing Distance Over 50 ft Obstacle = 1,830 ft / 560 m. Rate of Climb = 1,680 ft/min. Stall Speed (landing configuration) = 65 KCAS. Cargo Door Opening = 53 in x 52 in / 1.35 m x 1.32 m. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #15 July 27, 2004 QuoteTakeoff Distance Over 50 ft Obstacle = 2,300 ft Rules it out for my DZ.... oh well. We'll have to stick with a super otter. shucks. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #16 July 28, 2004 This weekend I got to meet one in freefall... Great looking plane and has a descent and turn rate almost identical to my S-3 wingsuit (and the Cessna 208 I had exited from...). Beautiful airplane, wish I had never seen it so close. Less than 100' away at my same altitude, about 20-30 seconds after exit. How do ya spell "holy f^@&%n' sh^t!"? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 July 28, 2004 Sissy. Ya' should have docked on it.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #18 July 28, 2004 Shit... I was running from him as fast as he was running from me... and from the look on his face he was more skeered than me... (I was poker facin' the mutha fucker with shit in my diapers!) not a pretty sight at 10k over Florida, but I wish i had a camera! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 July 28, 2004 Quotenot a pretty sight at 10k over Florida, but I wish i had a camera! I hope you atleast flipped him the bird before peeling off. That story would be retold by that pilot for years to come!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 July 28, 2004 Reminds me of this...... QuoteCharlie: Excuse me Lieutenant. Is there something wrong? Maverick: Yes maam. The data on the MIG is innacurate. Charlie: How's that Lieutenant? Maverick: Well I just happend to see a MIG 28 do... Goose: We... we. Maverick: Sorry Goose We happended to see a MIG 28 do a 4G negative dive. Charlie: Where did you see this? Maverick: That's classified. Charlie: That's what? Maverick: That's classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Charlie: So Lieutenant, where exactly were you? Maverick: Well we... Goose: Thank you. Maverick: ...started up on his six when we pulled through the clouds and then I moved in above him. Charlie: Well if you were directly above him, how could you see him? Maverick: Because I was inverted. Iceman: (while coughing) Bullshit. Goose: No, he was man. It was a really great move. He was inverted. Charlie: You were in a 4G inverted dive with a MIG 28? Maverick: Yes maam. Charlie: At what range? Maverick: About two meters. Goose: Well it was actually about one and a half, I think it was one and a half... I've got a great polaroid of it, he's right there. It must be one and a half. Maverick: It was a nice picture... Charlie: Ah, Lieutenant. What were you doing there? Goose: Communicating. Maverick: Communicating. Keeping up foreign relations. You know. Giving him the bird.. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
