wildblue 7 #76 July 30, 2004 you can leave me out of this - it's safe to say I have nothing to do with it.entirely too much drama folks...it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #77 July 30, 2004 Thanks for bringing it back. Although the topic appears to be set towards one DZ, one incident, it's a global discussion that need to happen. Individuals who create an account to feed their own agenda don't help the matter and it seems that why it got locked. So, here's a laundry list of items I've personally seen that got me to not visit a DZ again. 1. Non A&P mechanic working on a king air engine - he was a car mechanic though, isn't that close enough? 2. C182 pilot having a bailout rig in the seat, but not strapping it on - the afternoon replacement pilot did the same thing. 3. C205 pilot getting out of the plane as it sat at the end of the runway, open the engine cowling and dig around for the oil cap he forgot to put back on. Did I mention the engine was still running? 4. A balloon pilot bitching about how 'unsafe' another balloon pilot is, then proceeding to take off in (his own words) marginal winds. 5. Balloon pilot inflating in marginal winds, blows the burner through the skin of the balloon. Shuts down, inspects the damage, reinflates and takes off. btw, the hole was bigger when he got down... This is more of a learning thread and discussion on things that should be made a little bit more public. Was the Westwind wheels up landing have a root cause that was more than possibly a mechanical failure? Are there other maintenance/safety issues at the DZ that have been 'hidden'? What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas is not the safety rule of skydiving. If something happens, bring it out, discuss it, learn from it. That's what it is. Nothing more.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #78 August 2, 2004 Very well said, Michael.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #79 August 2, 2004 Sure.What really bugs me most is someone who should know better doing something really stupid.2 or 3 times landing your parachute and yourself on top of the clubhouse for example.When you miss(without an out)it is ugly!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #80 August 2, 2004 QuoteThe minute you charge 1 penny, all your customers should have a need to know the history of the aircraft and its maint schedule,,the problem is not all of us care,,most people are too busy burning energy trying to look and act cool and saying "fucking awesome" every 30 seconds. At times we are our own worst enemies.If every one showed up at the beginning of every month asking to see records and schedules before jumping and then having the balls to walk away and jump elsewhere if things don't look in order,,,then i think it could be the beginning of change. As a whole we could change the industry (there's really not that many of us ) quickly or as individuals we can hide behind the next guy and do nothing,,, Dude, you summed it up exactly. I know I was called out on this thread awhile back. I've been a bit busy. Sorry. Believe it or not if you don't see an NTSB report listed on my site or on the main site it doesn't mean it wasn't reported. (did that make sense?) It IS possible to land gear up and not be required to make an NTSB report (Mullins last year). You are "allowed" to bend your propellors and scrape your paint and not have to report to NTSB under part 830. However, bend a firewall or ding a wing and you most likely will have to report. It's a fine line. Does the mechanic want to forget he made repairs to a structural part of the plane after a gear up landing? Some might. Some have. And most certainly, MANY jump plane accidents have gone unreported or under-reported. "Hanging chad" anyone? This will always go on. It's up to us (the community) to call it out when we see it to make sure everyone is playing above board. No need to embelish. No need to name call. Just state what you know or what you have a question about. We do have the right to know since we are the paying public.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #81 August 2, 2004 Congrats Val. You are now one of "US" who have a hidden agenda. How's it feel? You try to do the right thing and make people aware and now you have a hidden agenda? Ummm... no, my agenda is to inform and protect skydivers. It's a very PUBLIC agenda. Again, congrats.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #82 August 2, 2004 >You are now one of "US" who have a hidden agenda. Apparently I have dozens of hidden agendas! Now if I can just figure out what they are. Perhaps one is to take over USPA and turn everyone into birdmen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #83 August 3, 2004 Quote>You are now one of "US" who have a hidden agenda. Apparently I have dozens of hidden agendas! Now if I can just figure out what they are. Perhaps one is to take over USPA and turn everyone into birdmen. Resistance is futile.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #84 August 3, 2004 Quote You try to do the right thing and make people aware and now you have a hidden agenda? Ummm... no, my agenda is to inform and protect skydivers. It's a very PUBLIC agenda. Precisely. I also was put in the same situation as Val is now. I released public information, FACTS, about incidents, close calls, and how they were being handled (or not being handled). Now I'm the bad guy for letting truth out to the public, so I guess I have a hidden agenda too. If anyone has any idea of what this evil agenda may be, please let me know, I could use a good laugh. As for keeping things “hush hush”, I feel there is a fine line to be drawn here. If there is an incident or close call, I’m not saying people should rush out to post it in the Incidents forum or call USPA with a report. Not all of us are that anal-retentive. When an incident occurs, you don't have to post it. Take action with the jumpers involved, educate those at your dropzone about what happened and how to prevent it from happening again, and tell the truth about it, shamelessly, if questioned about it. It's that simple. Personally, I have more respect for someone who is honest and says "We didn't do shit about it" than a person who says "We gave a harsh lecture and encouraged further safety training" when they really told the jumper "You're fine, if anyone asks, I lectured you". Honesty. Action. That is the key to respect. There was a threat earlier in this thread about being "at serious risk for a libel or slander or defamation action". If it were lies that we were telling, then it would be more than enough reason for a lawsuit of slander or defamation. However, when individuals are providing facts about incidents to the general public, the dropzone in question will retaliate with hostile and ridiculous threats like these because they were trying to hide incidents to preserve their reputation. This kind of action is dishonest. If they have nothing to hide, then incidents or even "scares" going out to the public should be of no importance. If they are trying to hide their own mistakes for the sake of reputation instead of putting forth even the slightest effort of some kind of preventative action for future incidents, then it is their own fault that their reputation has been hurt. Don't be upset because you couldn't hide your secrets. Be upset because you didn't take action to keep them from happening. Oh, and for the record, a plane incident like the one in question here can be one of the few incidents in my opinion that "just happens" sometimes due to human error, and preventative action cannot be accounted for (unless it was a gear malfunction and lack of proper preflight inspection was the cause), so don't think this is the incident(s) I'm referring to. I don't have enough information on the matter to make a final judgement on it (ie. human error or gear malfunction, i don't know), so I won't. It's only fair to not comment since I don't have the facts in this case. The bottom line is, I've never been out to hurt a dropzone's reputation just for the sake of hurting it, and certainly not because of any personal issue I would have with any of the jumpers/staff/owners. To my knowledge, neither have Vallerina or diverdriver. If spreading the word of truth because we care for the safety of our friends is wrong, then yes, I'm the bad guy, and damn proud to be. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
