flr169 0 #1 August 16, 2004 Was curious, how one would fly a flag while under canopy....... The reaason for this is as follow's..... Our radio station is having this contest...... this is what's up for grabs... "Show Us Your ROCK 94 wherever and whenever! Whether it's on your body, on your house, on a street corner - whatever you want! It's up to you and the more original the better and it's for a chance to win an all-inclusive Trip for Two to Cancun! And just for entering, you'll have a chance at winning a weekly grand prize of a hundred bucks worth of great prizes from The Pit Stop Restaurant and Bar!" Now i thought a 5x10 banner with ROCK 94 on it would be a cool way to forsure win a $100 and good chance at winning the trip for 2 to Cancun... Now can u my fellow DZ.commers help me out here.. I also realize I have just over 50 jumps....not sure what kind of jump numbers a person should have but I would like to hear what u all have to say.... Thanks for any insite to this.. ==================================Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #2 August 16, 2004 My guess is that your gonna here a lot of "not with 54 jumps you're not!" I would imagine my reply would be similar.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 August 16, 2004 Its a requiremnet for the PRO rating, but so is 500 jumps. Generally I would'nt think that you'd want to fly a flag with just 50 jumps, but I don't think anyone will let you. Generally it has to be put into a flag bag, weights attached and sew in to keep it inflated to be seen from the air/ground. A flag puts a lot of drag on you and it can be uncomfortable depending on how large it is and where its attached to you. If its trailing under you when the weight hit it can act like an anchor and stop you right there. It changes how the canopy flies and you want to have a more sinking canopy then a swooping canopy. 5*10 is 50 square feet, I bet you'll want about 5 pounds on the bottom front corner then 1 pound strips sewn into the bottom edge at least every 3 feet. I'd recommend talking to your S&TA and a few pro rated jumpers locally about this. You might be able to talk one into doing it for you and you taking the pictures from the ground to turn in to win with.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 August 16, 2004 Much safer and easier would be for you to get a radio station t-shirt and have the most kick-ass camera flyer you can find shoot you in freefall. You basically just sit there, smile, give thumbs up and have him do all the work for you. I do NOT recommend you flying a flag at this point. Yes, I have a PRO rating.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #5 August 16, 2004 Do you always have a person catching the flag. B/C even after a beautiful display of what this nation stands for, if you drag it on the ground would not be cool I do not believe in letting the flag touch the ground for anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #6 August 16, 2004 I jump flags on a regular basis, 6' x10' up to 20' x 30' and I would say Mr. Quade has the right idea. You will be able to get you point across, you won't have to make a banner and your friends will think you are cool. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #7 August 16, 2004 Quote 5*10 is 50 square feet, I bet you'll want about 5 pounds on the bottom front corner then 1 pound strips sewn into the bottom edge at least every 3 feet. Quote WHERE did you get THAT equation Phree?? That's 8-10 lb....on a 50 sqft flag?! Huh!?...why not just make the Flag out of lead! ...And honestly bro, ya really think it a good idea to suggest something like that to a person with 50 jumps? That kind of weight, if rigged AT ALL improperly could kill someone... in the air or on the ground. I would highly recommend he gain a lot more experience before attempting something on that line. I too have a PRO Rating... and fly flags in the 600 to 2500 sqft range. It's all fun and games...'till someone dies stupidly! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 August 16, 2004 Well, when I was looking at flying a 5*7 flag I was told very similar weights to put on from a PRO jumper. 3-5 on the front then about 2-3 sewn into the bottom edge for 35 sq feet was my figures. Thats just want I was going off of. I heard the weights used on the 2000 foot flag and its a whole lot more then I would ever feel comfortable straping on. I've seen weight belts nots zipped up properly that presented the same type of danger to people on the ground. I think its better to help educate someone on the right way to do things then to tell them "No, you are too inexperienced and I will not tell you how to do it". Tell us the right weights to use on a 50 foot flag so that everyone gets educated some.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 August 16, 2004 Quote Do you always have a person catching the flag. B/C even after a beautiful display of what this nation stands for, if you drag it on the ground would not be cool I do not believe in letting the flag touch the ground for anything. While I understand your sentiment, it's not always practical or possible to guarantee that the flag will not somehow touch the surface. There are some demo jumpers that avoid doing this technically by not jumping a flag that meets the specs -- it's therefore a "banner", but few audience members understand or care about the technicallities involved and anything even vaguely rectangular, red, white and blue better not touch the ground, at all, ever. In those instances I've heard of show organizers request that "THE" flag not be flown at all, but rather other flags such as the POW flag be jumped. I do think that -most- audience members understand if a corner sweeps the ground or a flag catcher doesn't quite get every piece of fabric as long as an earnest attempt is made and respect is shown especially on the huge flags that some demo jumpers fly. I, on the other hand, am still a baby demo jumper and have not as yet flown the Old Glory slot let alone the really big ones.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #10 August 16, 2004 QuoteI think its better to help educate someone on the right way to do things then to tell them "No, you are too inexperienced and I will not tell you how to do it". Quote I'm not trying to rag you Phree...(much) But telling someone in a forum such as this is not teaching them... I can tell you how to do a tandem from the back end, but is that really suitable training? I can tell you how to rig C4... but you would be much better off if I showed you. A lot of things go into safely flying a flag or banner. Things like container construction, attachment to the harness, Flag material and lanyard length, a positive release system in case of emergency, choice of canopy... Just to name a few... I've seen people with 100 times as many jumps have major problems... For his purpose I would recommend at simple 3X5 banner of light nylon construction, A snap clip at the top, and a bungie with a loop on the bottom. Stow the banner in your jumpsuit, when you get open and squared away...clip the top on a French link, and the bungie loop goes over your shoe... try it on the ground first to make sure line lengths are right and little if any tension will be transferred to the link.... Possibly causing the canopy to turn. Parachute will fly as normal, and no weight is required. Quote Tell us the right weights to use on a 50 foot flag so that everyone gets educated some. Quote I've been flying flags as a professional for over 25 years, believe me when I say there is no definitive answer to "How much weight goes on a 50 sqft banner." The list of variables in long... In brief: The best presentation has the banner flying below not behind the jumper, with little if any arc in the leading edge. If you hang enough lead on the bottom leading edge, eventually you'll get rid of the arc... of course you then have a demolition quality "Headache Ball" swinging around. Which is okay unless you plan on landing near anything breakable. ...And the ONLY reason to attach weight as you suggested every 3 feet along the bottom edge is improper lanyard length and / or way to fast of a canopy. That method actually tends to increase the amount of arc, and you are depending on the structural integrity of the banner material to prevent weight separation. (Bombs Away!) Okay...the right way to do this... and this is a trade secret so please don't tell anyone! On the leading edge of the flag / banner, solidly attach along with the lanyard...two rows of 1/2 in tubular nylon sealed at the bottom VERY securely... begin filling the two hollow sections with #12 bird shot... when you get to about 2/3 of the way up the flag stop and sew the top end shut... The shot has some room to move within the tube so folding / packing is easily accomplished... There is NO hanging / swinging weight below the flag...which is not only dangerous and unsightly but multiplies the speed and turning effects of the parachute as it's all transferred to the farthest point on the lanyard. The leading edge is now stiffer and thus less weight is required to lose the arc... it's somewhat padded which flag catchers seem to appreciate, and if you (heaven forbid) screw up at altitude and have a weight separation, it's just a bunch of tiny bb's spread out over a large area instead of a single 25 pound bomb coming down. Test jump it...if there is still some arc, add a bit more shot or lengthen the lanyard or choose a slower canopy. ...At least that how I've "read in a forum" it's done! Take a look a the flag photo 2nd to the last page in this months Parachutist, A 2500 sqft flag under a 425 tandem canopy (slow) with around a 25 lb weight ball hanging on the bottom... Notice the huge arc the flag / lanyard has in it from the attachment point to the hanging (swinging)! Weight. I had the pleasure of meeting that individual at the convention. He approached me with several questions, foremost was how to get the flag flying straight. His system was extremely well thought out and designed. And after an hour of consuming FlyAngel's beer... er..I mean rigging discussion. I'm betting that flag loses some weight and the arc. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flr169 0 #11 August 16, 2004 Thanks everone for the input.......... The video idea is awesome....Only problem is that the group of skydivers coming to my town for 3 days of jumping don't do any camera flying..... And I don't have the time to drive back on down to STC where I did my 50 odd jumps last month... I will try and figure something out......but probably not the flag flying under me during my canopy ride ==============================Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting - "fcuk me what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #12 August 16, 2004 Simple solution is to have someone take a photo of you as you land wearing the T-shirt. You can geek the camera and show off the logo all with a ground based film crew. All you need to be able to do is reliably pull off a nice landing while under pressure (don't do it if you can't) and the ability to land pretty much where you intend to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #13 August 16, 2004 A couple of buddies of mine won $10,000 from a local rock station a few years ago for a similar contest; "Show us your X". They made a banner and had two people hold it in freefall with video. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #14 August 16, 2004 Big flags are best reserved for people with demo jumping experience, lots of rigging skills and the patience to do several practice dives before showing it to the camera. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 August 16, 2004 If you plan on going the T-shirt route ... Put your rig on over the radio station's T-shirt, mark the widest points where the chest strap crosses the chest, then cut a couple of small slits in the shirt. Route your chest strap INSIDE the T-shirt - behind the logo - for better pictures. And drink a toast to the cervesa gods - for me - while in Cancun. P.S. Skydive Cancun is a tandem/AFP DZ near the ferry dock in Playa del Carmen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #16 August 17, 2004 QuoteIf you plan on going the T-shirt route ... Put your rig on over the radio station's T-shirt, mark the widest points where the chest strap crosses the chest, then cut a couple of small slits in the shirt. Route your chest strap INSIDE the T-shirt - behind the logo - for better pictures. That's a good idea. I would never had thought of that... Then again, I suppose that's what 27 years and 4300 jumps does to you.... -- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 August 17, 2004 Just be damn freekin' -sure- you check that chest strap. With it out of sight routed under the t-shirt it's a sure bet nobody else is going to be able to catch it if you don't.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #18 August 17, 2004 That's exactly why I wouldn't have thought of it. "How can I check my chest strap when I can't see it?"-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
