ladyskydiver 0 #26 October 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'd be irritated beyond belief. There's another level than this!?? Holy Crikey!!! Oh, yeah...there's multiple levels of irritation before you get to pissed and then furious.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #27 October 1, 2004 Quote Oh, yeah...there's multiple levels of irritation before you get to pissed and then furious. ooooKaaaayyyyy thennnnnn..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #28 October 1, 2004 QuoteActually, we loaded and were at altitude in 35 minutes at Eloy during the 300 way Yup you were...from the point of take off...not from the point of boarding etc. Remember you have to add time for the planes to get fueled, organized and loaded if they were running loads in between flying the record loads. I agree with Bill...there would have to be ALOT of organization to get it to fly with out pissing people off. If they did it where it started before the convention, so it didnt run thru the whole convention, then not only would people get to possibly see the record, but then the convention would be left as it is for part as well.She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #29 October 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteActually, we loaded and were at altitude in 35 minutes at Eloy during the 300 way Yup you were...from the point of take off...not from the point of boarding etc. Remember you have to add time for the planes to get fueled, organized and loaded if they were running loads in between flying the record loads. I agree with Bill...there would have to be ALOT of organization to get it to fly with out pissing people off. If they did it where it started before the convention, so it didnt run thru the whole convention, then not only would people get to possibly see the record, but then the convention would be left as it is for part as well. Now that'd be cool - or if it was done towards the end of the convention when people start taking off - keep people around a bit longer.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #30 October 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'd be irritated beyond belief. There's another level than this!?? Holy Crikey!!! Oh, yeah...there's multiple levels of irritation before you get to pissed and then furious. Relevance to the topic of this thread? You two use PM's please if you want to continue to bicker, even if in jest. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #31 October 1, 2004 BTW side note - Eloy had a C123 for a few years; we did the Arizona state record (82) out of it in '95 or thereabouts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #32 October 1, 2004 I don't think the discipline required to participate in a record and the extra curricular activites at Convention exactly go hand in hand. The world record camps I've witnessed that Roger organized, the jumpers had to be ready for 7:00am calls, jumped until sunset (8ish or later) then debriefed for an hour or more. It was physically and emotionally demanding on the participants, the "ground" crew, and all the wives, husbands and significant others that were there to support the effort. WFFC is a 10 day party with some skydiving thrown in. Sure, you've got the location and the aircraft, but still, the 2 don't mix. And YES, I do know at least one world record was set at convention many years ago. But that was then, this is now. just my .02......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #33 October 1, 2004 > I don't think the discipline required to participate in a record and >the extra curricular activites at Convention exactly go hand in hand. I can think of quite a few people in Thailand who would get in at 3am - and would still be at the airport for the 8am call. I didn't do that - but then I have no problem not staying out late whether I'm at the WFFC and have to get up early or in Thailand doing a jump like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #34 October 1, 2004 Likewise, I would hate to tell you then number of people on those attempts I know personally who don't bother to go to bed at all. The fact that they are there for record attempts (or Nationals, or the world meet) in no way, shape, or form stops people from partying like rock stars and howling at the moon. Discipline, in those cases, simply means that you can still make manifest and fly your slot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #35 October 1, 2004 Well, in Thailand, they pretty much treated all of you like rock stars, right? I'm just saying- convention and world record attempts don't mix. Just my opinion, of course! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #36 October 1, 2004 I like the debate and discussion going on here but I was hoping someone could answer the question with some detail, nevermind before the WFFC or after.. WHY can't we get the USAF, Air National Gurard or Reserve to fly us in the big cargo haulers? where is the rule, what are the exact words.. what would it take to change that? If its a PR thing .. I think a pair of C17s dropping 400 skydivers in Red white and blue jumpsuits would be good PR. they cannot be that expensive to fly, get the Knights on the attempt if you have to 400people, some fundraising and a world record attempt over the USA! don't say we can't tell me why we can't and what it would take to change that Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #37 October 1, 2004 I found a reg. if you can get to it. you might not be able to (as it is .mil domain) it can be downloaded here. its too big to post... http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/24/afi24-101/afi24-101.pdf It may not be exactly what you are looking for and there are several MAJCOM supliments... I'll skim through it and see if I can find anything specific... Scott ------Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #38 October 1, 2004 This may be the same regs. I scanned it and there is no mention elgibility for sports related activities or skydiving except for military teams. http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html/451513r.htm Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #39 October 1, 2004 the one I posted is an Air Force specific regulation... If the DOD reg doesn't forbid it... then the air force reg may not either... hmmm... I do know that as Active duty Air Force I am allowed to do personal travel on Air Force aircraft... but only if there is Space available on already planned routes... I doubt the pilot would let me get off in mid-flight though... Scott ------Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #40 October 1, 2004 QuoteWHY can't we get the USAF, Air National Gurard or Reserve to fly us in the big cargo haulers? where is the rule, what are the exact words.. what would it take to change that? Before you even start cracking Regs open why not put the common sense approach to it first and you'll see why. It's not like we have these types of A/C just sitting around not being flown. All availbale airflift capabilities are constantly tasked and Pilots get more than their share of time behind the wheel. Continuing along that same line of thought, lets just say perfect world, one of these A/C is available. Then you have to look at the risk assesment of this type of an event and the possibility of loosing the A/C. It doesn't benefit the Gov't in any way that justifies it use. Then you have all non-skydiving people and people with agendas to think about. How would it look when we use our military A/C (read tax payers money) to let skydivers jump out of it? Surely some would see that as fraud ,waste and abuse of a national asset and tax payers dollars. Do I need to continue, do you still need to see it in black and white?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #41 October 1, 2004 I understand that the world is currently falling all over itself to put demands on our military airlift capacity, disaster relief, war supplies etc... but in peace time the military's air cargo command (MAC when I was a kid) is very much UNDERTAXED, I lived on a MAC C-141 starlifter base as a kid, the crews flew about 1/3 of their missions just to keep clock time and get flight pay.. maybe 1/3 is a little over estimated. but the PR bennifit for the miltiary/the US to host a world record, good for the US military, good for the US economy, good for the airlines (from public confidence in flight) etc... I'm not seeing the "logic" that puts this down so quickly Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #42 October 1, 2004 QuoteI'm not seeing the "logic" that puts this down so quickly From my post above: QuoteThen you have all non-skydiving people and people with agendas to think about. How would it look when we use our military A/C (read tax payers money) to let skydivers jump out of it? Surely some would see that as fraud ,waste and abuse of a national asset and tax payers dollars"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #43 October 1, 2004 As I said before, C-130s and even larger tailgate transports are available for hire from private companies. These companies should not have the military as their competition.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #44 October 2, 2004 I have sent these comments on to Don, I am sure that he will be interested, as he is always looking for ways to make the convention a more interesting, exciting place. I do believe that the comments about being tied TO but not part OF the convention are very valid. I can see that not only would the jumpers be pissed if we shut down for the attempt, but so would the other aircraft operators, jumpmasters and TMS. I am suggesting to Don that it be considered as PRE convention. I would also eliminate that party hardy, then drop syndrom, too....skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #45 October 2, 2004 Why's it have to be paid for by tax money? The air national guard doesn't take credit cards? What did the thailand jumps cost? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #46 October 2, 2004 QuoteWhy's it have to be paid for by tax money? Because thats how the US Gov't works, QuoteWhat did the thailand jumps cost? I have no clue but I bet the THAI gov't knows"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
