Praetorian 1 #1 October 1, 2004 I can't find the reason why we cant get the USAF or air national guard transports for bigways?? Other then their currently being a little busy what with global war and global hurricane and genocide responce etc. I know its been mentioned but I searched and failed .. anyone thought of e-mailing Geroge HW Bush and seeing if he could put a word in with his kid on changing what ever policy this is?? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #2 October 1, 2004 I believe there was a rule passed several decades ago prohibiting civilians from flying on military aircraft. Seems like every general officer and politician was taking "free" trips (including family) at the expense of the US taxpayer. Unfortunately, there was no exclusion for non-military jumpers. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 October 1, 2004 Can you imagine the hew and cry that would arise? In some countries they get away with it because the King or Queen in kinda into skydiving. While some politicians in the US come from incredibly powerful families -- they are not royalty -- and could never hope to deal with the repercussions of the kind of tax payer abuse this would be.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #4 October 1, 2004 so we pay for the fuel/clock time, the pilot gets flight hours its a win win ... howmany people would we launch from a C-5?? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 October 1, 2004 Quote so we pay for the fuel/clock time, the pilot gets flight hours its a win win ... Do you really think it'd be that simple?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #6 October 1, 2004 You can! It's called a Mass Tac. Only problem is that it's a static-line jump and you have to join the Army first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #7 October 1, 2004 You can hire a C-130, or even bigger, such as an AN-whatever from private companies. If you owned such a company, you would not want the military as your competition. Isn't that the basis for the policy against it?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #8 October 1, 2004 QuoteI believe there was a rule passed several decades ago prohibiting civilians from flying on military aircraft. Then how do civilian tandems go out of the Golden Knight airplane?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #9 October 1, 2004 Quote Do you really think it'd be that simple? It is here. Last weekend about 50 local jumpers did several C-130 dives. Our view on the tax payer is different. If the hours have been budgeted for - but not used - then the taxpayer should benefit. And most taxpayers with a PRO rating do. I think the C-130 is a little overrated. The spots tend to be marginal, it takes forever to load, and here in Africa where there are fewer jumpers - once you've done 3 dives - that's it for the day as most people head for the pool. I'd prefer 10 dives out of an Antinov 26b over 3 from a Herc anyday. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #10 October 1, 2004 There's a provision, I need to look through a stack of emails for the specific reference to it. But simply, there is an exception if the PR value is great - hence why Apollo 13 was filmed on the vomit comet.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #11 October 1, 2004 QuoteI think the C-130 is a little overrated. The spots tend to be marginal, it takes forever to load, Hmmm, you never been at the Swedish Herc boogie!!!! Loading takes 1 minute to 2 min from 1st person on the tailgate until the last is seated and the tail is closed. 4 min to altitude 13500 ft 4-5 min to jumprun... Slow??? your kidding.. OK we are lucky to have a very good cooperation with the swedish military as we are a small country, but the norwegians have the same nice cooperation.. They even hav fundraising boogies together with the military C130...Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justdumi 0 #12 October 1, 2004 Isnt that coz the Golden Knights are a display team and thats something that is mandated by them being what they are. The plane is part of the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #13 October 1, 2004 don't forget, South Africans are as slow as the swiss are... We take nearly more time to load and seat 10 people in a Porter as 70 in the An72 in Vichy I guess the Herc Boogie had a system like the Espace Boogie with a pre-boarding area etc...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #14 October 1, 2004 QuoteThen how do civilian tandems go out of the Golden Knight airplane? Paperwork and coordination. Military pax can ride the GKs plane, like Black and Gold week, but any other time even military pax have to submit the paperwork through the channels to get approval to jump their aircraft and it usually has to be a military parachute system."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #15 October 1, 2004 Might be able to get a good deal on a C-141... it was retired last week. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #16 October 1, 2004 Years ago, a Montana National Guard C-130 was gong to fly in a record attempt. I think B. J. Worth was behind it all. Then another group starting demanding the plane fly for their group. . . . The commanding officer soon decided he had had enough and canceled evrything. We, skydivers, can sometimes be our own worst enemies, just like what ruined El Cap for everyone else. And if we don't screw it up, there's always a lawyer waiting to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #17 October 1, 2004 I think we could do the 400 way with Otters. The logistical problems might be a hastle but it could be done. I think it should be set up so it could be done at the WFFC. My opinion.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #18 October 1, 2004 QuoteI think it should be set up so it could be done at the WFFC. Please tell me you are kidding? I could see all the happy convention jumpers who paid $60 to jump excited about being grounded for an hour + 4-5 times a day while they attempted the record.She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #19 October 1, 2004 Hopefully you're joking, Chris. As cool as it would be for me to see a record attempt, if I paid the entrance fee into WFFC and was grounded because of the record attempts, I'd be irritated beyond belief.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 October 1, 2004 The last time (circa 1985) the US Army allowed civilians to jump out of one of their CH-47 Chinook helicopters, it crashed at an air show in Germany. That created all the wrong kind of publicity. Most other air forces simply have too few airplanes to fly their primary missions, ergo no reserve capacity for civilian missions. For example, Canadian civilians have been banned from skydiving from Canadian Armed Forces airplanes for decades now. The only exception I have ever heard of occurred last autumn. The CAF Search and Rescue School was behind schedule on training a bunch of CSAR Instructors (to CSPA Coach standards), so they flew a Buffalo over to Pitt Meadows and flew six loads. Every load contained a mixture of SAR Techs and CSPA Coach 2s. Most of the civilians also held PFF Instructor ratings. Every jump included targeted learning objectives to help CSAR Techs complete their coach ratings. In conclusion, the only reason civilians were allowed to jump from a military Buffalo was to finish training some military jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #21 October 1, 2004 QuoteHopefully you're joking, Chris. As cool as it would be for me to see a record attempt, if I paid the entrance fee into WFFC and was grounded because of the record attempts, I'd be irritated beyond belief. Actually, we loaded and were at altitude in 35 minutes at Eloy during the 300 way. It was not an hour. Plus, after the drop you could have your pick of 15-16 otters to get you to altitude right afterwards. I don't know that many people who pack that fast and they don't jump that hard during the convention. So, you jump, while you take your hour break between jumps the attempt goes up and you get to see something cool. Having the planes already on hand makes it better then bringing them across the nation only for the record attempt. That cost big time and I didn't fly one "fun" load while I was at Eloy. We chose to do it that way but I'm saying it could ease the burden if you ran this at WFFC. It's just my suggestion and last time I checked Don Kerlin didn't have my number on speed dial to ask my opinion on anything. So don't get all worked up.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #22 October 1, 2004 >As cool as it would be for me to see a record attempt, if I paid the > entrance fee into WFFC and was grounded because of the record > attempts, I'd be irritated beyond belief. The attempt would be large enough so that it would have to be planned very, very carefully in advance; you would know months before the WFFC if a record attempt were going to happen there. You could then make your own decision on whether to go or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #23 October 1, 2004 Just like you voiced your opinion, Chris, I chose to voice mine. I don't expect to change your opinion on this one, and you will not change mine on this one. QuoteSo don't get all worked up. Chris, honey...if you think that is worked up...God help you if I ever decide to get worked up. Trust me...there will be absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind if I'm worked up.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #24 October 1, 2004 QuoteI'd be irritated beyond belief. There's another level than this!?? Holy Crikey!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #25 October 1, 2004 why not set the record attempts to be the few days leading up to or imedatly after the WFFC, that way you get the bennifit or the aircraft already there and dont interfer with the convention?? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
