Premature or opencontainer

[Praetorian 1]

I'm asking opinions (not attacks or recriminations) state what you would do, why and if you've had a close call relating to this please add it too.

Open container or loose pilot /main bag in the plane by the OPEN door or on the step.. you see it on another diver, what do you do?

My response TACKEL them off the plane don't try to explain don't point or yell unless you are too far away to act yourself.

This is based off the account from the recent fatality so some of my decision is "monday morning quarterback" I mean no offense

My personal experience: I caught the 1 inch of exposed bridle on my container on the 1 fricking snag point it could possibly find AFTER my pincheck and on my way to the door (twin otter). My traling bridle was spotted and I was grabbed 1 step from the airstreem only after I was pinned and the bridle contained/door closed did anyone bother to explain to me what was going on.. AND I THANK THEM ALL

as an aside I'm now better at watching my own gear and don't lessen my guard at all after my pincheck.. which was what lead to that almost incident . and my container is being modified to cover that 1 damn inch

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[billvon 3,111]

>My response TACKEL them off the plane . . .

This response at Rantoul led to an aircraft-jumper entanglement. The door opened, the jumper opening the door had his container open, and the main fell backwards into the aircraft. People them told him to go. He got out into floater position, the canopy/lines/risers/bridle caught air, and the canopy inflated over the tail, dragging him into it. Had other jumpers simply contained his main and closed the door it would have been a non-issue.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

People them told him to go. He got out into floater position, the canopy/lines/risers/bridle caught air, and the canopy inflated over the tail, dragging him into it.

So he wasn't tackled off the plane, he got out like nothing happened and was outside waiting for this to happen.

So, Praetorian's response did NOT lead to an aircraft-jumper entanglement. NOT doing it lead to it.

Whose to say what would have happened if the jumper was tackled and taken off the aircraft instead of climbing out and waiting.


The jumper may have been pulled clear of the aircraft before the bag opened. Or not, but since that is not what happened (according to your description) we will never know. However, to try to make it fit another situation isn't right.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,111]

>So, Praetorian's response did NOT lead to an aircraft-jumper entanglement.

The idea that the jumper should leave the plane with an open container led to the situation; tackling/pushing/yelling etc are just ways to accomplish that end.

>However, to try to make it fit another situation isn't right.

I disagree with the general premise that someone with an open container is better off outside the plane than inside. "Tackling" him may have made things better or worse; closing the door certainly would have prevented all the ensuing drama.

The order I try to take it in is:

1. Prevent it from happening in the first place
2. If it does happen and you can get the stuff back in the plane (or prevent it from leaving) do so
3. If you can't, tell him to go
4. If he doesn't go, go with him

[AggieDave 6]

Sure closing the door may have prevented the situation, BUT having a jumper that was heads up and one that maintains his/her gear would have been better. Who's to say the d-bag and PC won't leave while the door is being closed? The door doesn't leave instantly and what could have happened while the wind changed in the cabin while the door was being closed.

My point is trying to make a situation that doesn't fit another situation and trying to make someone's point look less valid is wrong.

For instance, in reference to the incident that made this thread happen, we don't know if the 206 had a cargo door or a step and a normal door. On the step with a normal door, if my container opened, I hope and wish someone would tackle me off the airplane before I deploy over the tail and next to the plane. I would definately do the same for someone if it happened to them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,111]

> Sure closing the door may have prevented the situation, BUT having a
> jumper that was heads up and one that maintains his/her gear would
> have been better.

Of course.

>Who's to say the d-bag and PC won't leave while the door is being closed?

Me. I was on the plane in question and saw it from two video angles later.

>My point is trying to make a situation that doesn't fit another situation
>and trying to make someone's point look less valid is wrong.

I think that under most conditions, "tackling" someone (or otherwise trying to hustle them out the door) is a bad idea. It's a better idea to control the problem inside the plane than to take the problem and move it to the outside of the plane. I was on a plane where an attempt to get the guy out the door almost resulted in a tragedy. You (or Praetorian) may have different experiences and come to a different conclusion; that's fine.

[Praetorian 1]

Quote

"tackling" someone (or otherwise trying to hustle them out the door) is a bad idea.

First let me be clear when I say "tackling" I don't mean otherwise hustle I mean get them away from the plane with all possible speed I do MEAN TACKLE. Get to door closed if they are far enough in yep I agree thats what happened to me but no one stopped to explain to me so there was no confusion I was GRABBED, if I were almost at the door and had my pilot come out of my BOC I don't want discussion or help I WANT TO BE AS FAR FROM THE PLANE AS FAST AS I CAN BE, I'll figure it out in the air and probably be buying beer on the ground :)

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.