Skydiving And Athleticism

[Kramer 0]

We take 50 random men and women between the ages of 20 and 40. None of them have ever made a skydive. They are all of varying physical ability. Everything ranging from a champion triathalon competitor to an overweight housewife. We test their physical strength and endurance through a number of resistance and cardiovascular exams. We test their hand eye coordination through some basic sport techniques. After we perform these tests, we rank the 50 people in order of atheleticism.

We take these same 50 people out to the dropzone. Over the course of six months, we put them through the same skydiving training. Starting with AFF taught by world-class instructors. Leading into basic RW and freefly skills, and then onto more advanced flying techniques as well as world class canopy control lessons. Once all 50 people have reached 500 skydives, we judge their overall skydiving ability critiquing their abilities in all disciplines they were taught through the course.

Is there a coorelation between how well the participants faired in the athletic test, and how well the participants faired in the skydiving test? Why?

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[TALONSKY 0]

As a tandem instructor, I have seen quite a few really over weight people that did a great job. I have taken two different women both 250 and about 5' 4" tall, both could not stand up after climbing into the plane (they had to crawl over to a bench and use that to help them stand). One of these women were in their mid 60's and both had no problem getting their legs straight out for landing(in fact is was quite easy for both of them). Now I have also taken quite a few 90- 110 lbs women that were skinny that were unable to get their legs out for landing(so I had to help them.). I have learned you can not judge a book by its cover
Kirk

[Remster 30]

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We take these same 50 people out to the dropzone. Over the course of six months, we put them through the same skydiving training. Starting with AFF taught by world-class instructors. Leading into basic RW and freefly skills, and then onto more advanced flying techniques as well as world class canopy control lessons. Once all 50 people have reached 500 skydives,

Can I get on that deal? lmao

Remster

[brits17 0]

Yes, I believe there's a correlation. A number of factors are involved, considering mental and physical training involved in athletics.

Muscle memory is gained in athletes.
Body awareness, senses heightened.
Endurance.
Controlled mental capabilities.
Hand/eye coordination and depth perception (especially in canopy flight).

Just a few benefits of athletes I could think of off-hand. Of course, with proper training and experience, athletes or non can become wicked skydivers.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Remster 30]

I think the correlation is more direct when dealing with athletes, as oposed to people in good shape or not.

Athletes are not new to coaching, training, goal setting, body awareness...

Remster

[larsrulz 0]

I don't think so, some people just "have it" and some people don't. I think coordination and reaction time certainly have some correlation with whether someone has it, but not overall athleticism. There are certainly enough smokers at my dropzone that I'm sure would fall over and die if they had to run an 8-minute mile, yet they beat the crap out of me in the sky anyday.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[brits17 0]

I agree... thats what I was getting at. Athletes are generally well trained individuals, and in shape to boot.

Natural athleticism plays a role in the benefits I mentioned as well.

Edit to add: Of course this isn't the case with ALL skydivers, but many... especially in regards to learning curves, etc.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[weegegirl 2]

Seeing as I don't know a whole lot of top-shape-skydivers, , I'm not sure how much it would matter in the longrun. I think it helps to be somewhat athletic, with a fairly high endurance. I think it is extremely helpful to be very flexible - especially in freeflying. But skydiving, from my experience, is more a mental game then anything else. You don't need to be able to run a triathalon to put yourself in the right mental game.

[Remster 30]

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is more a mental game then anything else. You don't need to be able to run a triathalon to put yourself in the right mental game.

Correct.

BUT if you are a triathlete (a serious athlete as opposed to me trying to do one lol) you are used to all the training shite I mentioned above.

A few pro and olympic athletes went though our school over the years, and pretty much everyone of them has been a natural, whatever that is! lol

Remster

[Levin 0]

belly flying with a big beer gut gives ya a good center of gravity. doesn't look very athletic though.

i think tall skinny people have an advantage over other body types in freeflying. just my opinion.

[kelpdiver 2]

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BUT if you are a triathlete (a serious athlete as opposed to me trying to do one lol) you are used to all the training shite I mentioned above.

I did all 3 Alcatraz multisport events this summer, including a naked swim, but that contributed little to my abilities as a skydiver. The muscle memories have no values - none are specific to skydiving. As a diver, my muscle tendencies work against me - toes like acting as skyhooks.

But athletes are a bit less intimidated by new protocols, and that experience is quite valuable here.

[mattjw916 2]

maybe you should just skydive more if you want to be a better skydiver

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[firstime 0]

I think desire and frame of mind play a huge role in
a person's ability to perform in this sport (which doesnt require agility) but requires controlled relaxed
thinking therefore out of shape people can do this just as well as the fine tuned body. It's all upstairs.
My .02

[kelpdiver 2]

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maybe you should just skydive more if you want to be a better skydiver

Get Aerodyn to ship out my reserve faster!

Doesn't change the issue of natural ability though.

[AggieDave 6]

Watching the students I pass on to AFF from tandems with our tandem progression I've definately noticed that athletic people do much better.

Why?

Its not so much physical ability and conditioning, its flexability and body awareness. Athletes tend to have more awareness of their body during movements then "normal" people. The best so far has been a former bull rider and a former competitive swimmer. Both of these folks have progressed very very quickly and its due to muscle and body awareness and flexability.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mattjw916 2]

I am not a super-athlete by any means but I have a martial arts backround as well being in better-than-average shape and I "breezed" through my first couple licenses.

I put breezed in quotes since that was how my progression was described by a 10,000+ skydive jumper recently.

I think having good coaches and staying current, very current, is probably a significant key to success as a skydiver beyond anything else. Being in good/great shape certainly isn't going to hurt and will probably enable you to "walk-it-off" on some otherwise ugly landings or mid-air antics.

YMMV

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Peej 0]

Hopefully Tonto will see this thread and tell the story about the professional swimmer that he had as an AFF student. Apparently it wasn't pretty.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[ZoneRat 0]

The prettiest chic with the most money will fare best. She will have gotten tons of training/ attention the others didn't get.

Or maybe not...
Really the one that did best is the one that did a lot of sports in their past. They already know how to put their bodies in the proper position to achieve the desired results. Especially the ones that did form based sports like karate, jujitsu or ballet.

Either that or the one that learned to relax first. That's the one that seemed like a natural- always smiling, with no mental barriers between them and success.

Actually, the one that gets it is the one that wants it the most. Spends their nights daydreaming (visualizing) the perfect skydive. Spends their evenings watching jump video, painstakingly analyzing every frame. Seeks out coaches and asks the right questions, and LISTENS to the answers. Sets up a special bank account for tunnel time. Coached tunnel time...

Actually the one that ends up best got her 500 jumps two years after the others. She had to pack on the weekends for jumps. She watched with envy the jump video of all the others. Listening quietly and closely to every critique. She could give the coaches critique herself, but no one would listen-owing her low jump numbers... Each jump she actually got to make was like a special, delicious gift to herself that she savored for weeks on end until the next one.

or maybe it was someone else...

Your question is a really interesting one. Does physical form matter? It must, to some extent. After all, it's a physical sport. But how much? My personal guess is... some, but not that much. To be a world champion you kinda gotta have the whole package I guess... and at the other end of the spectrum there can be those that never achieve any real understanding or skill... but at 500 jumps? At a mere 500 jumps I feel that the physical prowess of some could be easily be overtaken by a different set of contributing factors of others.

Safety on the other hand... being able to not snap your ACL or MSL on that bad landing they had (we all have) between 0 and 500 jumps... that is definitely affected by athleticism. To be able to pack yourself on a 9 jump day and still be worth a damn on the formation load.... well... an overweight and out of shape housewife might struggle.

Then again, with only 2.5-3 years in the sport, there's a hell of a lot I haven't seen yet. Probably the best one will be the one that did their entire student progresion in the tunnel...

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[John4455 0]

I have taken very athletic looking people (muscular, trim, fit) on tandem jumps, that have tensed up and gone into the "dying cockroach" de-arched position.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[Tonto 1]

Your hope is not in vain.

We're primates - regardless of what those who believe in creation vs. evolution think. Any and all our athletic abilities are tuned to a short range 2 dimentional environment governed by gravity with consequence, and no relative wind as a powersource.

I think "neutral" students fair better than "athletes" unless those "athletes" come from lower body awareness diciplines such as climbing, football (that's "soccer" to you Americans. ) gymnastics, martial arts, ballroom dancing etc. Being a runner, a cyclist, a swimmer - will help you run, cycle and swim out the door until you realise that good basic skydiving is best learned just lying there and feeling what the air is doing to you - and understanding consequence of airflow over reaction to regain balance.

Athletes try too hard. They really do. Sure, being more aerobically fit, having higher endurance etc may help, but nothing helps more than finding that quiet place in your soul where nothing happens, time lasts forever and posibilities are endless. That's where we really learn, and it usually happens when we're smiling, not concentrating on the move.

The swimmer? This guy was superman. Dale Carnege grad, own succesful business, fit, strong, co-ordinated, motivated, confident, aware, knew his dive. He swam. All the way. No COA, no practice touches, no alti checks. Just swimming, right down to turning his head sideways every 3rd stroke to breathe. Athlete? Yes. Swimmer? Undoubtably. Skydiver? No.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[lowie 0]

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I have taken very athletic looking people (muscular, trim, fit) on tandem jumps, that have tensed up and gone into the "dying cockroach" de-arched position.

IMHO for the first 10 jumps the people who engage it thrill seeking activities will most likely win out because they will be able to focus on the dive quicker. (Note that these people are nomally fit anyway but not used to coaching maybe) At the 20 jump mark I'd say the athletic/competitive sport people should start overtaking

[Ron 10]

Athletic people do better in my opinion.

They are more aware of their body and what it is doing.

They have more confidence in physical situations.

They are used to training, and recieving instruction.

They are used to needing to physically perform.

Being physicly fit allows you to train the dives, not try to bring your physical fitness up to the level needed.

Airspeed, Majic, the Knights, Fastrax all have PT programs to get in physical shape.

Being in good shape makes everything easier.

Not to say that it can't be overcome, but it will require more work.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JCoonce 0]

How many people do you think will actually make it through the 6-month program? I'm guessing just a few.

Why? Skydiving is an amazing sport, but it requires determination, commitment, confidence w/ humility, knowledge, and sacrifice to succeed. It’s not for everyone.

Even without the financial strains, the people in your study are still responsible for their own skydives, and they must work with their coaches to overcome the obstacles that skydiving presents. They must also be willing to make many physical, emotional, and time-consuming sacrifices. 500 jumps in 6 months is a lot!


So, in your scenario, I'd ask each person:

1). Have you ever received an amazing reward after working your butt-off to reach a goal?

2). If yes, did you reach this goal on your own?

3). Do you think that becoming a world-class skydiver is a good goal?


I'd say there would be a direct correlation between people that answer "yes, no, yes" with those that will be able to complete the program with the highest skydiving scores.

What percentage of these people will have been classified as "athletic?" I'd guess a good number, but not all.


Success in skydiving requires determination.

Janet

[earthworm 0]

I was a martial artist when I started skydiving and I think it helped me. Ironically, my instructor had studied one of the same arts as I and he used several martial arts metaphors to help me in my A training.

I did pretty well in freefall, but landing was always a challenge for me. I think martial arts training has helped me survive some pretty bad landings though.

Its also a good sport for bad weather days. I do both sports now and I think they make a great combo.

Buzzards gotta eat...
Same as worms.

[RogerRamjet 0]

The most natural skydiver I was ever in the air with was Roger Nelson. Before getting into skydiving, he competed in Tang Soo Do (A Korean Martial Art). I felt his awareness of his own body position gave him an edge and the Karate was where he learned to know what his body was doing.

I have no idea what kind of beginner he was though as I didn't meet him until 1974 by which time he had accumulated around 700 jumps (I think, because I had around 500 and he was a couple of hundred ahead of me).

There are a wide variety of athletic sports, but I would guess those disciplines that stress knowing where your body parts are, in particular your extremities, would have the advantage in free fall.

Of course I could name a few other jumpers that have no athletic background at all that could fly circles around most too...

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519