Re: [dubbayab] Fatality at Imatra, Finland

[paratom 0]

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I have had S/L students freeze up while hanging on the strut of a C-182, sometime a gentle nudge is needed, cause it way to dangerous to try to get the student back inside of the plane, but from this video it appears the JM got control of the S/L and pushed the student out like it was standard for the jump. I wouldn't recommend pushing from inside of this type of plane, he could have retrieved the student easily if it were the case that the student froze up in the door.

Hello to everyone. I have been visiting this forum for a long and I must say it is excellent. It provides many answers to the questions, which I believe are common all around the world. At least to the people who take part in this sport.

I must say the falling through the lines of deploying main is the situation which is supposed to be the most dangerous of all by S/L student jumping. We had such cases but everything ended relatively fine. Years ago there was even the student on his first S/L jump, who fell through the lines of main, cut away immediately (;should not as he was taught; - but the main by luck slid off his leg) RSL opened the reserve and he fell through the lines of deploying reserve too. He landed in the wild spin half head down. He was hurt, but not too much and in few weeks he was fine.

Through the time we learned, that the plane should fly very slowly, at least by side-exit (An-2). In this case the air resistance is not too strong and does not possibly roll the student too much. Even by bad exits the students hardly come close to the deploying lines. But the danger by S/L side-exit is always present.

We learned, that the most suitable planes for the first S/L jumps are therefore C172 and C182. The things you know for a long already. The problem is very low space between the wheel, where the student stands with left leg (the right keeps hanging) and the wing. The student is in the position, (when he drops), from which he easily falls backwards and rolls. And here we go again. It is more or less the matter of the awareness of the student, whether he/she arches from this position or not. Many do, but many just stay in contracted position and roll. (Some have even fallen between the wheel and the strut.) You may help them to concentrate on arching by putting the sticker on the wing and order them to look in it.

Therefore I found the idea of hanging from the strut excellent. Is this common (when you do it from Cessna) method? Do you have any extra handles on the strut? After how many jumps the S/L students usually start to exit from the step? What do the pilots say; do they oppose due to the possible balance disturbance?

Many thanks for you answers.

[phoenixlpr 0]

This is not ST forum. If you have something to say about similar things do there.

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I have had S/L students freeze up while hanging on the strut of a C-182, sometime a gentle nudge is needed, cause it way to dangerous to try to get the student back inside of the plane, but from this video it appears the JM got control of the S/L and pushed the student out like it was standard for the jump. I wouldn't recommend pushing from inside of this type of plane, he could have retrieved the student easily if it were the case that the student froze up in the door.

Hello to everyone. I have been visiting this forum for a long and I must say it is excellent. It provides many answers to the questions, which I believe are common all around the world. At least to the people who take part in this sport.

I must say the falling through the lines of deploying main is the situation which is supposed to be the most dangerous of all by S/L student jumping. We had such cases but everything ended relatively fine. Years ago there was even the student on his first S/L jump, who fell through the lines of main, cut away immediately (;should not as he was taught; - but the main by luck slid off his leg) RSL opened the reserve and he fell through the lines of deploying reserve too. He landed in the wild spin half head down. He was hurt, but not too much and in few weeks he was fine.

Through the time we learned, that the plane should fly very slowly, at least by side-exit (An-2). In this case the air resistance is not too strong and does not possibly roll the student too much. Even by bad exits the students hardly come close to the deploying lines. But the danger by S/L side-exit is always present.

We learned, that the most suitable planes for the first S/L jumps are therefore C172 and C182. The things you know for a long already. The problem is very low space between the wheel, where the student stands with left leg (the right keeps hanging) and the wing. The student is in the position, (when he drops), from which he easily falls backwards and rolls. And here we go again. It is more or less the matter of the awareness of the student, whether he/she arches from this position or not. Many do, but many just stay in contracted position and roll. (Some have even fallen between the wheel and the strut.) You may help them to concentrate on arching by putting the sticker on the wing and order them to look in it.

Therefore I found the idea of hanging from the strut excellent. Is this common (when you do it from Cessna) method? Do you have any extra handles on the strut? After how many jumps the S/L students usually start to exit from the step? What do the pilots say; do they oppose due to the possible balance disturbance?

Many thanks for you answers.

[sabr190 0]

We have been using the hanging from the strut method for many years. The only way I have seen a student even come close to going through the lines is if they shove themselves away from the strut when they release.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I was taught that way too.

[paratom 0]

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We have been using the hanging from the strut method for many years. The only way I have seen a student even come close to going through the lines is if they shove themselves away from the strut when they release.

Many thanks to you both. Are/Were there any difficulties such as slip off the strut when students try to hang on it? How far from the wheel of the plane? I can imagine then afterwards; bend the knees, look up, release and try to arch. Must go smoothly and almost impossible to fall backwards. Of course just in case as you said if they shove themselves away from the strut. But even in this case much less dangerous than roll from the step/wheel in contracted position.

As said many are just fine, but some are really hard work.

[dubbayab 0]

We learned, that the most suitable planes for the first S/L jumps are therefore C172 and C182. The things you know for a long already. The problem is very low space between the wheel, where the student stands with left leg (the right keeps hanging) and the wing. The student is in the position, (when he drops), from which he easily falls backwards and rolls.
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Why not allow the student to go all the way out till they are actually hanging from the strut with only there hands holding on, and their feet hanging. With there foot(left) on the step it not a good position for exit, if they are hanging then the relative wind has a tendency to push there legs back and place them in a more favorable position to let go and arch!

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[phoenixlpr 0]

After that fatality practice jump with the door imitation has been specified in details. Students drop themself ona soft ramp. I hope that it wont ever happan again.

[XWuffo 0]

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After that fatality practice jump with the door imitation has been specified in details. Students drop themself ona soft ramp. I hope that it wont ever happan again.

Uh what fatality...what practise jump ? Are you saying a student died doing a practise jump ?
A bit more detail would be much appreciated

As we in Africa know - "If you're going to be dumb - you'd better be tough."
- Tonto

[phoenixlpr 0]

You just dont want to get it.

Practice jump with the door imitation has been specified in details after that fatality. Students drop themself ona soft ramp. I hope that it wont ever happen again.

[XWuffo 0]

Believe me, I DO want to get it. My life may depend on it. I dont understand some words/syntax you use like
1. ona ??
Anyway, I think I understand that you now use exit training on the ground, where the student actually drops off a strut, and lands on a soft surface.
I think that is a brilliant idea, and JM's & I's out there should take note !

As we in Africa know - "If you're going to be dumb - you'd better be tough."
- Tonto

[phoenixlpr 0]

We/they had it before too. But since than its more emphasis on the angle on the exit. Im sorry Im not a native English.

[paratom 0]

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We/they had it before too. But since than its more emphasis on the angle on the exit. Im sorry Im not a native English.

Come on, tell us. If you are not a native speaker say in magyar or suomi language. I'll get the translation, but I am very interested in it too... If you tell us I will explain to you what to do if the S/L student leaves the plane and his S/L is by mistake not attached.