cargo chutes for tsunami relief?

[riggerrob 643]

A guy from my church just called to ask me why the Canadian Armed Forces were not using cargo chutes to drop supplies to survivors of the Boxing Day tsunami.
He asked me to put my head towards developing a simplified type of cargo chute/LAPES/free-drop system of rapid distribution of 20 kilogram parcels.
What are your thoughts?

[AggieDave 6]

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He asked me to put my head towards developing a simplified type of cargo chute/LAPES/free-drop system of rapid distribution of 20 kilogram parcels.
What are your thoughts?

Problem matic. Although a large drogue design or a very small canopy design would work, I'd worry about some problems that may occur from droppinga large number of 20kg packages in a disaster area instead of having organized relief centers.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[stratostar 5]

Where are all the acid mesh rounds you want to go way?
That would be a good use for them even if loaded light.
Just a thought.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[killler 2]

20kilo's in a double cardboard crush box... Dropped from low slow aircraft.... The fastest and cheapest way to go....

Killer....

[LouDiamond 1]

Couple of problems that are always challenges.We have they means but it is not always the best course of action.

1. # of cargo chutes available and time to rig them on bundles /pallets vs getting the stuff to the people.

2. based on our experience with the kurds and others. groups of people tend to chase bundles floating out of the sky. This creates the problem of mobs gathering around and people getting squashed by the bundle coming out of the sky.

3. chutes drift , see # 2

I can go on but you probably get the idea

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Travman 6]

The problem with dropping parcels in a decentralised area is everyone will rush to get them, and once someone does they will fight to protect their "prize".
Its an ok way to get supplies down, but they need someone to administer its distribution.

[killler 2]

Thats why you do a string drop... people will tend to get one or two each.... Better then one guy selling the whole pallet....We did airdrops before with small bundles.... works really well for a fast way to get help to people...

Killer....

[mjosparky 4]

1. The best canopy of choice would be cross form, they do not oscillate and less drift.

2. You would need to have already have the stuff ready to load and go or the time factor would be to long.

3. As Lou mentioned, if you drop them in a safe area they are not were the people who need are.

4. If you drop them where the people are, you have just become part of the problem.

Put crew in and hack out improvised runways. The C-17 can land on some really outrageous land strips. Would take about the same time as the other idea.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

Where are all the acid mesh rounds you want to go way?
That would be a good use for them even if loaded light.
Just a thought.

~

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My loft has is an entire shelf of old round reserves from the acid mesh era. I would cheerfully drop them into some plague-infested swamp, never to be seen again.

[stratostar 5]

Well there you go solve to issues at once and help people to boot.
~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

1. We are going to use crossform chutes, probably 12 feet across the top.

2. Stuff will have to be pre-packaged and sitting on pallets, in a warehouse, just waiting for the C-130, C-141, C-17, C-5B, Airbus 400, etc. Plan on a 5-year shelf life.

3. The goal is a first-day, low pass over afflicted areas. We want to strew thousands of small packages over a wide area, hopefully most of them will land close to (devastated) civilization.

4. The second day effort will involved hacking out airstrips for C-17s, etc.

5. The second-week effort will involve ships, trains and trucks.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

1. We are going to use crossform chutes, probably 12 feet across the top.

2. Stuff will have to be pre-packaged and sitting on pallets, in a warehouse, just waiting for the C-130, C-141, C-17, C-5B, Airbus 400, etc. Plan on a 5-year shelf life.

3. The goal is a first-day, low pass over afflicted areas. We want to strew thousands of small packages over a wide area, hopefully most of them will land close to (devastated) civilization.

4. The second day effort will involved hacking out airstrips for C-17s, etc.

5. The second-week effort will involve ships, trains and trucks.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Similar to how FEMA USAR teams are set up.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slug 1]

Hi RB

Lapes requires a flat area for the plane to make it's low approach and the pallets to skid to a stop.

Tree stumps logs boulders etc, will send the pallets heads over heals.

Container delivery system CDS) could be used without to much of a problem except the supply of chutes (one per container) would be a limiting factor.

IMO Someone needs to be on the ground to ensure that the biggest survivor's don't get all the goods regarless the mode of delivery.

C-130 's can land on a 2 lane road and offload in less than 5 minutes. first the people on the ground have to clear the road for approx 300 meter's.

So first the choppers unload the organizerss and basic supplies(slings) get things organized , do some basic cleanup and then airland the materials or use the CDS system and recycle the chutes via chopper.

BTW Indonesia has something like a doz C-130's but according to the news only 4 are airworthy due to shortage of parts. The US has the parts there may have ben a embargo in the past for human rights issues. I suspect/hope this parts shortage is resolved ASAP.

R.I.P.
Ex c-130 loadmaster

[LouDiamond 1]

CDS bundles are fine if you have everything needed to support them. But making what we call speed balls is far more expedient and can be dropped from rotary or fixed wing and distributes the goods over a wider area to more people. There is less likelyhood of killing/hurting people, mobs, black marketing and they get the essentials right away. For heavy or large quantities of things that can't be dropped via speed ball, like a pallet of drinking water, CDS is the way to go.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[riggerrob 643]

C-130 's can land on a 2 lane road and offload in less than 5 minutes. first the people on the ground have to clear the road for approx 300 meter's.

So first the choppers unload the organizerss and basic supplies(slings) get things organized , do some basic cleanup and then airland the materials or use the CDS system and recycle the chutes via chopper.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The disadvantage with helicopters is that it takes 2 or 3 days to fly them to some parts of the Canadian High Arctic. It would take a WEEK or more to fly them to the far side of the planet.

My original question was about a first-day, maybe second day response.

[riggerrob 643]

Please tell us more about "speed balls."

[slug 1]

http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/articles/anloc.htm

Speed ball maybe

R.i.P.

[LouDiamond 1]

Close but not what we do. A speed ball can be something from a duffell bag, piece of canvas tarp or other expedient contaner with the heavy portion at the bottom. The items are wrapped in bubble wrap and honeycomb is added to the outside of the speed ball. You can attach a small drouge or a streamer to it or not. It's basically a very cushioned drop. Some times it explodes on impact but more often it lands intact. Water cans need to have the air valve opened to keep them from exploding outright.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[JamesNahikian 0]

Quote

A speed ball can be something from a duffell bag, piece of canvas tarp or other expedient contaner with the heavy portion at the bottom. The items are wrapped in bubble wrap and honeycomb is added to the outside of the speed ball. You can attach a small drouge or a streamer to it or not. It's basically a very cushioned drop. Some times it explodes on impact but more often it lands intact. Water cans need to have the air valve opened to keep them from exploding outright.

I am pondering how this could serve as a guide to fun at our dropzone ... hmmm.

D. James Nahikian
CHICAGO

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

A speed ball can be something from a duffell bag, piece of canvas tarp or other expedient contaner with the heavy portion at the bottom. The items are wrapped in bubble wrap and honeycomb is added to the outside of the speed ball. You can attach a small drouge or a streamer to it or not. It's basically a very cushioned drop. Some times it explodes on impact but more often it lands intact. Water cans need to have the air valve opened to keep them from exploding outright.

I am pondering how this could serve as a guide to fun at our dropzone ... hmmm.

D. James Nahikian
CHICAGO

Don't get me wrong, these things come out of the sky even when they are dropped from a few hundred feet very fast. Getting hit with one would ruin your day

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[slug 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A speed ball can be something from a duffell bag, piece of canvas tarp or other expedient contaner with the heavy portion at the bottom. The items are wrapped in bubble wrap and honeycomb is added to the outside of the speed ball. You can attach a small drouge or a streamer to it or not. It's basically a very cushioned drop. Some times it explodes on impact but more often it lands intact. Water cans need to have the air valve opened to keep them from exploding outright.

I am pondering how this could serve as a guide to fun at our dropzone ... hmmm.

D. James Nahikian
CHICAGO

Don't get me wrong, these things come out of the sky even when they are dropped from a few hundred feet very fast. Getting hit with one would ruin your day

I remember seeing some night video from the DEA of a aircraft droping speed balls or bales of imported agriculteral products low and fast over open water. I guess them hay bales float long enough for someone to pick them up.

I think throwing stuff out of airplanes besides WDI's and Skydivers and the military is a no no. Includeing water balloons.

R.I.P.

[mjosparky 4]

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I think throwing stuff out of airplanes besides WDI's and Skydivers and the military is a no no. Includeing water balloons.

If you don't endanger people or property on the ground, you can drop anything you want. If it endangers people or property on the ground you can't even drop a WDI.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slug 1]

Interesting

No problemo
R.I.P.