Encouraging people to skydive

[Antidote 0]

I'm starting to question the wisdom of actively encouraging people to join the sport. With 'active' I mean the typical "you should try it" and the follow ons that many skydivers I know (including myself not that many months ago) have when friends/friends of friends find out you skydive.

Passive support I agree with. Then it's their own drive that lead them on the path.

The reason being that in 'active' mode, the positive tends to be focused upon whereas the negative tends to be put on the back burner. In other words, most of the 'recruiting' I've seen has been "it's tons of fun and not really as dangerous as they say". As newbies most of us have, at some time or another, been guilty of this.

But skydiving isn't Disneyland or a ride in an amusement park. To me it's true living and with that comes with the extremes of joy and pain. Yesterday, I lost a friend. I watched helplessly from above as he turned into the ground. Four months ago a jumper I've spent some time with and hoped to spend a lot more with died in a similar situation.

I'm unsure if most want-to-be-skydivers/newbies fully realize the seriousness of the sport they're getting into. I am also wondering if I and others are able to give them the whole picture of what they're about to be involved in. Furthermore, I believe most newcomers see a statement such as "if you're in the sport long enough you're going to see friends die and you might die yourself" as either machoism or as something that only entice them further in a morbid way.

I'm not sure but I have a feeling inside me that the danger bit isn't emphasized enough. Even worse, even if it was emphasized more, I think in many cases it just wouldn't be believed. The "won't happen to me'" attitude thing.

Good people die in this sport. Friends die. I might die. Die as in DEAD FOREVER, gone, no longer with us, NEVER see that smiling face again.

That is the reality. And man, has it hit me now.

Despite it all I will still skydive. But I know some who experienced this reality and then quit. It'd be better, perhaps, if they hadn't started in the first place.

Any thoughts on this?

[Icon134 0]

I understand what you mean...

but I learned reciently that someone that I have a great deal of respect in this sport didn't like it until after his 4th jump... then he was hooked... I guess his sister drug him out to the DZ... and now this person is I believe a very respected Rigger...

but generally I don't suggest that my friends do it... They know if they ever want to jump that I'll be on the plane with them... but I'll never fault them for not doing it...

this sport will kill you if you aren't careful and can even do so if you are careful. In fact I have talked people out of jumping telling them that...

Scott

[AMax 0]

I think it is normal for those who just made first few jumps to encourage the others to start skydiving. I was like that. The understanding of real danger and responsibilities usually comes with time so does your position change. In general, I don't like talking to non-jumpers about skydiving simply because the conversations are always reduced to answering very simple questions over and over again. When some new friends find out (usually because the old friends forget the instruction not to bring the skydiving topic up), I would tell them what they want to know but I never encourage anyone to make a jump. Adults should decide for themselves. In addition, I would not want to deal with the guilt in case someone whom I encouraged gets injured of goes in. This is personal point of view. Of course we see a lot of advertisement by DZ's but this is a part of their business.

[Skolls081102 0]

Let me begin by prefacing this post with this: I have yet to jump out of an airplane (due to my weight). I can't actaully argue for or against what you're saying. All I can do is offer you my opinion. I have wanted to skydive for a very long time. I can remember thinking about it as far back as when I was 8 years old (I'm 28 now). It sat on the back burner for a very long time, and only recently have I pursued it with great vigor. I know the dangers (not all, but I'm learning). I actually read through about 25 pages of the "Safety and Training" Forums on this website. I am trying my best to educate myself in this sport while I wait to jump (if I lose the weight, it will hopefully be this summer). I read the forums here (almost all of them) on a daily basis.
When I finally make my first jump, it will be with the realization that "I could get seriously hurt, or die from this." But you know what, I can get seriously hurt or die driving to work everyday (I live in New Jersey and commute the GSP everyday). Everything involves risk, some more than others. But i can tell you right now, if I don't like my first jump, I'm going to do it again (just to make sure).
I know this isn't really about what you were talking about, but as a real NEWBIE, I figured I'd throw out my opinion.

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[slotperfect 7]

First of all, I wish you peace and quick grieving after the loss of your friend. I hope you will find some time to honor his memory with his close circle of friends, and some time to get in the air by yourself to sort things out where each of you shared a love of the surrounding environment.

The public perception of skydiving is sometimes difficult to break through to enroll others in experiencing the freedom, joy, and exhilaration of human flight. The two biggest things I hear from people is that (in so many words) that it is way too far outside the box for them, or they are afraid of heights. One at a time:

-"Out of the box" can be fear issues or lack of self-confidence or self-worth. I never tell people that skydiving is safe. I honestly tell them it's a high risk activity, and that the risk can be reduced through respecting the danger, proper training, proper equipment selection & maintenance, etc. If they really want me to compare the level of risk to something, I relate it to flying (avoiding driving analogies). I tell them that most people who pursue making a skydive, regardless of the length of the decision making process, all see that there is some sort of benefit on the other side of this calculated risk. They may not know how that benefit looks, tastes, feels, etc. - but I tell them it will likely be intensely personal for them. Example: my sister Connie made a tandem with me three years ago. I came away having shared the thrill of skydiving with her, and I would find out later she came away with a life-changing experience. The bottom line was that she never knew she had it in her to do anything like that. It had a permanent positive effect on her.

-"Afraid of heights" - I actually hear this from about 80% of my tandem students. Some people have a no kidding phobia . . . I have not encountered one yet, but that would require a meeting with our DZO and likely a signed statement of permission from her doctor. The others are afraid of heights just like I am: I know that if I fall from a high place I will get hurt. People experience this in varying degrees, but most are able to conquer it. I get them to trust me in saying that skydiving is completely different than walking across a bridge or standing at the edge of a cliff. BTW - my sister Connie has always been very afraid of heights because of some traumatic childhood experiences. Victory #2!
People that are leery of engaging me in a conversation about it for fear of me enrolling them in coming along for the ride? I tell them to come out to the DZ and have lunch, watch and have a nice afternoon. No pressure to skydive, just information gathering. Most people are more afraid of the unknown than death from impact (from my experience).

In the end it is a personal choice for everyone, and we the advocates get to respect their decisions once they are equipped to make an informed decision.

Arrive Safely

John

[Skolls081102 0]

Slotperfect, sorry about the driving analogy. I was just trying to say that as a complete NEWBIE with no jump experience, I see the risk involved. But to me, driving in my car to work (if you've never driven on the GSP, you just wouldn't understand ) is a risk, but I do it everyday. But the risk doesn't outweigh the benefits (Paychecks and benefits, etc...).
Skydiving has risks too. But to me the risks don't outweigh the potential (cause I haven't done it yet) benefits (freedom, exhiliration, pursuing a life long dream).
And yes, I am afraid of hieghts.

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[AggieDave 6]

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People that are leery of engaging me in a conversation about it for fear of me enrolling them in coming along for the ride? I tell them to come out to the DZ and have lunch, watch and have a nice afternoon. No pressure to skydive, just information gathering. Most people are more afraid of the unknown than death from impact (from my experience).

That and I'm not sure about you, but I have honestly thought about the possible civil suit liability for being too encouraging to skydive. As asinine as that sounds, it is a possibility, so I will never "lean" on someone to jump. I, like you, invite people to come hangout at the DZ and see what skydiving is about before making their decision to jump or not to jump.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[slotperfect 7]

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That and I'm not sure about you, but I have honestly thought about the possible civil suit liability for being too encouraging to skydive.

Actually I do think about it. I make sure at three points during the skydive process that they want to go. If they are reluctant at first I make sure they understand that I won't take them out of an airplane unless THEY want to go. I ask them before we gear up if they are ready to go. Finally once the door comes open I ask them "are you ready to skydive?" I do my best to get the last one on video, and we keep all raw footage on file in the school.

I go to great measures to be as safe, professional, and proficient as possible. I also ask questions of our School Owners to understand the measures they have taken to protect themselves and their staff. Otherwise I trust people, skydive, and have fun.

I don't think it's asinine at all to think about it. I think it's responsible thinking unless it turns into litigation paranoia, which you are a long way from.

Arrive Safely

John

[Tink1717 2]

I actively encourage those I meet to jump. However, I am adamant about the risks. I blatantly tell them that a high speed collision with a planet is not something you can survive. That usually weeds out those who don't belong in our playground. Even more weed themselves out by not following through with their plans. I don't ask again from those who don't show without regard for the reason. Those who's actions don't match their words are not worth dealing with.

That being said, the number of people who follow through is vanishingly small. And of those who come the first time, it is a tiny percentage who make it to their license. It is due to these small numbers that I ceaselessly recruit. We are a small and otherwise insignificant sport whos existence is tenuos at best. The only way we can improve these odds is to increase our numbers and becomes closer to a mainstream activity. (Not that jumping will ever be mainstream, but in time we can become something that is less of a curiosity.) Only then can we assure our sport will continue to exist.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Orange1 0]

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The reason being that in 'active' mode, the positive tends to be focused upon whereas the negative tends to be put on the back burner. In other words, most of the 'recruiting' I've seen has been "it's tons of fun and not really as dangerous as they say". As newbies most of us have, at some time or another, been guilty of this.

As a newbie I have been guilty of this - but I was also "lucky" early on enough to be in a situation that made me realise that this IS the kind of sport where you can do everything right and things can still go wrong. Luckily I only came out with a few bruises - but also with a lot more healthy respect for the sport. I think it's the safest of the extreme sports, but it IS still an extreme sport...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[PrairieDoug 0]

I don't take the initiative to encourage people to jump. But if someone expresses an interest, I'll share my experience and provide some basic background info (nearby DZs, 1st jump options, etc.) Sometimes a bystander will overhear this discussion and interject that "I could never jump." My reply is always "There's absolutely nothing wrong with that... the sport isn't for everybody."

[joodyblu 0]

This is probably one of the most thought-out posts I've seen yet on these boards! I've been quietly sitting back reading dz post for some time now, and I have been reluctant to join in any discussions because I have only jumped once, and it took having tons of faith in my tandem master, whose also a very good friend, the fact that my daughter, son and husband all jump, and just about two years of fighting it with all I had in me, to actually get onto a plane knowing I was going to willingly jump out of it. I did, after all was said and done, enjoy it. But it is not for everyone, and I totally agree that trying to encourage anyone else---trying to push anyone else--into it is something close to irresponsible. It is a dangerous sport, or at the very least, it's an extreme sport, and when things go wrong, they can go terribly wrong. I know the absolute enthusiasm you all feel (like I see in my husband and son, espedially) tends to overflow into nearly every aspect of your lives, and I imagine its hard for those of you who are "hooked" have a difficult time understanding why everyone wouldn't just love it, if they'd just try it!! But I do agree--passive encouragement is fine. Those who have even a tiny bit of desire to try skydiving will do it in their own time, and it's best not to make them feel cornered into it.

[MarkM 0]

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In other words, most of the 'recruiting' I've seen has been "it's tons of fun and not really as dangerous as they say". As newbies most of us have, at some time or another, been guilty of this.

The thing of it is, it is a lot of fun and doing a tandem is a lot less dangerous than most whuffos think it is. And 99% of the people that do a tandem won't go past that one jump anyway.