laird 0 #1 March 19, 2005 I was out at the DZ today packing and a guy came by to drop off his rig for repack and we started talking about the "old days". Well he did I wasn't around back then. He had pix of him doing a demo into a golf course with a Para-commander and the pix clearly show him standing up the landing and grabbing the US flag before it hit the deck. Is a stand up landing on a round fairly common? Maybe am just easily impressed. I recently got to jump a round a couple times, but I don't think I could have stood it up. He was talking about reaching up and grabing the risers at about 12 feet above the ground and pulling them down to the shoulders then letting them go at about 3 feet then stand up the landing. Has anyone ever heard of this or done it? Im just curious. Since jumping a round I have some serious respect for those of you who learned on or spent your entire jump career under a round canopy. I think we should institute a canopy appreciation day and have everyone jump a round atleast once. Of course all the old timers are exempt. It also makes me glad I learned how to spot (which is a dieing art if you ask me). I'll jump a PC tomorrow or sunday just to see if his method works for me. Don't worry I'll get video, should be an interesting landing. I only weigh like 145lbs so I've had pretty soft landings so far. "HIGAF" Honestly I Give A F*^% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #2 March 19, 2005 PC's are amazing, for rounds. They can be landed very softly, but of course they can also land very hard. Have fun with your jump, and think carefully about the spot!Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #3 March 19, 2005 I have a few hundred PC jumps, and yes, it was common to "flare" them using rear risers. It was also common to get stand up landings. I am pretty confident that you at 145 lbs could stand up a PC. I'm not sure what kind of round you jumped, but there is a vast difference between a 28-foot surplus canopy (which I started on, and have about 100 jumps on), and a ParaCommander. I have certainly seen more "brutal" landings on ram air canopies than I ever saw on round canopies. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #4 March 19, 2005 That is the proper method for "flaring" a PC. At your weight, with around a 5 mph wind you should be able to flare [pop] it perfectly for a stand-up. Now having said that, time as well as use, plays a factor on canopy porosity. In short, be prepared to do a PLF...Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 March 19, 2005 Standing up a PC is a finesse manuever, which is entirely optional. Not standing up a PC is perfectly respectable for your first jump. My one and only PC jump, I landed in corn, so there's no video. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=17726; _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #6 March 19, 2005 I owned a PC and put about 35 jumps on mine years (and lbs) ago. Pulling down the rear risers could flare the canopy and get a great stand up landing Have fun, the PC is a fun canopy. I wish I was light enough to take mine up again!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #7 March 19, 2005 Try to "flare" more in the 6 to 8 foot range, to high and you lose the "lift" and pound in. I'm around 220 out the door and stood up 8 out of 10 P.C. jumps last season, so your 145lb ass should be able to pull it off if you do it right, or not if you do it wrong. And don't let go at 3 ft. if any thing do a double pump and hold the second one, be ready to PLF. And for gods sake don't be a pussy and put that canopy in a modern rig, piggyback is ok, but belly warts are true retro. P.S> don't drop the ripcoard! ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #8 March 19, 2005 QuoteAnd for gods sake don't be a pussy and put that canopy in a modern rig, piggyback is ok, but belly warts are true retro. P.S> don't drop the ripcoard! Quote LMAO! Yup! What he said! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 March 19, 2005 He'll be buying beer for his first PC jump anyway...why not make it 2 cases... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 March 19, 2005 sure..... you can do it... I made over 1100 jumps on a round main T-10 28' LoPo a handful of Jumps on a Para Commander, and OVER a thousand on the French Papillon... I owned 3 different Fr. Paps over the years.. they were far more stable in turns than a PC and could sink nicely onto the peagravel target.... If it was windy,, ( i.e. enough breeze in your face at landing ) that you would be "backing up"..... I would reach over my head with both arms.... cross them,, taking the opposite side risers,, one into each hand, and then I would torque around, 180 degrees,,, as I "uncrossed" my arms... so as to be facing 'backwards'.. just as i touched down... Then while my main canopy was still facing forward,, I'd be facing backward,,, ( the direction in which i was Moving ) and would run out the landing ,, or else simply land standing up... I was not ALWAYS successful, but i could pull it off maybe 7 or 8 times outta 10... and it sure beat the "feet, ass, back of the helmet" alternative which most people endured when backing up under a round.......( remember the forward speed of such a canopy was less than half of the speed of a moderately loaded,, ram air...so we WERE backing up in anything over 12 or 15 mph wind speed.) Of course i was a slight bit younger,, and a bit more adventurous,, in those days... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #11 March 19, 2005 He'll be buying beer for his first PC jump anyway...why not make it 2 cases... (quote) I would have to agree having more frosty cold ones at the end of the day would be a good thing, it would seem better if it was for something other then losing the ripcord, have you ever tried to find a replacement ripcord for old gear?you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #12 March 19, 2005 have you ever tried to find a replacement ripcord for old gear? Quote Ya beat me to it 'Star'...! The beer would be the CHEAP part of the deal! I do happen to have a couple extra Stylemaster rip cords...bought way back when just in case! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #13 March 19, 2005 Quote He was talking about reaching up and grabing the risers at about 12 feet above the ground and pulling them down to the shoulders then letting them go at about 3 feet then stand up the landing. I recommend pulling down on the rear risers just before landing, but don't let them back up, anymore than you "let up" the toggles when you land your square. The flare on the rear risers is partly an aerodynamic flare, partly a chin up to reduce the landing forces on your feet and legs. My softest PC landings came from timing the flare to be almost done when your feet hit the ground, but not completely flared prior to touchdown, in other words, not as early as flaring a square. Uhhh . . . is that confusing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #14 March 19, 2005 is that confusing? Quote Poor guy is gonna hit the ground harder than a cheerleaders panties on PROM NIGHT! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #15 March 19, 2005 Quote? Poor guy is gonna hit the ground harder than a cheerleaders panties on PROM NIGHT! Oh crap . . . uh, just aim for the peas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #16 March 20, 2005 I do happen to have a couple extra Stylemaster rip cords...(quote) Well just let me know if they need a good new home, I have many of those rigs and can always use extras ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #17 March 20, 2005 Hi Laird, Haaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!! Yes, that technique (pulling down the risers then letting go just above the ground) does work but the name of the game is "Timing!!" If you let go too soon, no game, if you let go too late, big ouch!! (the "timing window" is about as long as the time between when ya hear "pathooie" and the sound of a snatch hair hiting the lanolium!!) What happens is for a fracion of a second the slack in the lines allow the canopy to expand outward and when the slack tightens the extra "surface area" grabs air and slows you down below your constant desent speed. Got that?? {kinda like getting hanged!!!!!!!!!} you land nice and slow if the ground is right there. It's kinda like stall landing a tail dragger airplane. the higher you are when the plane stalls, the higher the bounce!! Good luck and have fun. PS. Got 500+/- a couple of jumps, and 3 screws in my right ankle from ParaCommander jumps!! Face into the wind, undo your chest strap and if you are wearing a chest reserve, un do the left side tie down and left B-12 snap and swing it to your right. (See old photo's of real men shooting accuracy) About 10 or so feet above the ground, pull both toggles to the full brake (don't go down into the stall) position and "stand up!!" Good luck!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
laird 0 #18 March 20, 2005 Unfortunetly we had quit a bit of wind and some rain. Hopefully sunday will be better. Dave the DZO and master rigger here set up a dual back with two round canopies, with reg risers with 3-ring. He originally did it for him, just for old times sake, but I had to try it. Now its not enough to just jump a round. Now I want to try it the old way. So I just packed up a chest mount reserve and hopfully after some more practice of the emergency procedures I'll be able to jump that system soon. I had to seriously concentrate and visualize the whole way to altitude and try really hard not to toss the handle! I have video of the first two jumps and it just looks really strange to see me or anyone with a freefly suit and helmet cam under a round canopy! Who knows maybe one day years and years from now people will be jumping the same canopies we use today for nastagia jumps. Thanks for all the help, I'll use it as soon as I get a chance. "HIGAF" Honestly I Give A F*^% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #19 March 20, 2005 QuoteThat is the proper method for "flaring" a PC. At your weight, with around a 5 mph wind you should be able to flare [pop] it perfectly for a stand-up. Now having said that, time as well as use, plays a factor on canopy porosity. In short, be prepared to do a PLF... At 145 lbs, you should most definitely get a surprisingly soft landing out of a PC. I weighed about 155-160 when I owned one and it was so soft that I made the transition from paraboots to Nikes. The deal is you're not flaring a wing here, you're just hauling down the rear risers on a big sack of air, albeit a somewhat more aerodynamic sack. And don't worry too much about the age of the fabric either. I used to fix tears on mine with fucking duct tape and it worked just great. If it holds up through the opening you're set. It's friggin 2.2 oz. taffeta, nothin's going to happen to it. Have yourself a ball, but be sure you have a good spot. On your way down, check out the way all the squares go whippin' by. Used to make me wish I owned a Strato Star so bad... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LSD 0 #20 March 20, 2005 I jumped a round canopy ~40 times and only once i stoud up landing on it. It was one of last my jumps with D-1-5-U canopy. I even didn't knew that it is posible when i made it, so i was very surprised and happy of course :) Later i asked my instructor why he didn't tell me that that way of landing round canopy is posible, he answered that safer and beter for my legs do not try doing this. Blue skies, and safe swoops with round canopy :) http://skydive.home.lt/gallery/AnzerWorld/Swoopuks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 March 20, 2005 QuoteI jumped a round canopy ~40 times and only once i stoud up landing on it. It was one of last my jumps with D-1-5-U canopy. I even didn't knew that it is posible when i made it, so i was very surprised and happy of course :) Later i asked my instructor why he didn't tell me that that way of landing round canopy is posible, he answered that safer and beter for my legs do not try doing this. Blue skies, and safe swoops with round canopy :) http://skydive.home.lt/gallery/AnzerWorld/Swoopuks That is one scary looking canopy. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #22 March 20, 2005 I used to fix tears on mine with fucking duct tape (quote) LOL I still have "a patch" that is 23 years old on my MK-1 It's still holding strond as ever looks like shit, but works. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 March 20, 2005 QuoteI used to fix tears on mine with fucking duct tape and it worked just great. Uh Tom dear you do know they had that really high tech rip stop tape....I had so much of that on the crown of my Pappillion.. that I think I had very little of the original material showing. I had tape on tape in some places.. but I did have a couple rolls of red rip stip.. just in case I found a new hole or burn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #24 March 21, 2005 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Personal_Galleries/airtwardo&image=BackyardDemo.jpg&img=18&tt= Kinda how...! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #25 March 21, 2005 I made about 300 jumps on a mk 1 Para Commander back in the "good ole" days. I used to do a chin up on the back risers when landing. It worked great as long as the wind wasn't blowing too hard. I never heard of letting them back up, but maybe that works too. On really windy days I used to hook it into the wind at the last minute. The lines are really long on a standard PC, and if you can oscillate into the wind at the last second, it helps some. I wish someone had taught me to twist around 180 degrees on wind jumps. I hated rear PLF's. I don't know how many times I hit feet, ass, and head when jumping in 20 plus MPH winds. I still have a head ache from doing that. No fun at all. I couldn't imagine jumping without a helmet back then. T-10's aren't too hard to stand up if conditions are right. I used to stand them up fairly regularly when we jumped in the National Guard. (Usually when an officer wasn't looking.) This was considered a no no when jumping with the military. I never used duck tape, but I did have a lot of rip stop tape covering the burns on my old P.C. I've got an old rip cord for a super-pro container, if anyone needs one. Brand new 30 years ago, never used it. I kept thinking I needed an extra, but never did....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
