orangemagoo 0 #1 May 3, 2005 .....is a .92 wingloading too much for somebody with only 41 jumps? I have a wingloading of .83 currently. My instructor suggested downsizing, though, since I have problems penetrating wind. Another instructor said no. ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #2 May 3, 2005 Well Erin... I've heard that as long as you are less than 1:1 that's good. But I know nothing...really. I'm just posting here because it's you Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangemagoo 0 #3 May 3, 2005 QuoteWell Erin... I've heard that as long as you are less than 1:1 that's good. But I know nothing...really. I'm just posting here because it's you Get a life. You are on here entirely too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #4 May 3, 2005 By the generally accepted rules about jump numbers and wingloading: 0-100 jumps < 1.0:1 So, 0.9:1 for you is OK. I'm got 35 jumps and load my Spectre at about 0.9 to 1. It lands just as fast as I want to go at the moment. The vertical decent rate really wakes me up everytime. Any faster and it would be scary. By the way, I plan on putting at least 200 jumps on my canopy before getting another. In any case after shelling out for AFF and a rig, I'm a little short on funds just for a smaller canopy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudOnMyTongue 0 #5 May 3, 2005 It really depends on what size canopy a .92 wingloading puts you at. Jumping a 220 square foot canopy at that wingloading and a 150 canopy at that loading are completely different things. No one well ever blame you for being too safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #6 May 3, 2005 No offense guys but giving advice on wingloading with your (and my) jump numbers is going a bit far. Perhaps allow some more experienced jumpers to reply to these sorts of questions.www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudOnMyTongue 0 #7 May 3, 2005 I think it's funny that everyone giving advise for this has less than 100 jumps. But we could all be lying about our jump numbers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #8 May 3, 2005 Most people are going to defer advice to your instructors, since they know more about your canopy skills and your awareness level. In this case you have one on each side of the debate. I'm sure we're all wondering why each instructor feels the way they do. Maybe sit down with both of them and the three of you can come to an agreement. Downsizing just be able to jump in higher wind conditions seems kind of crazy to me. Are you comfortable with your current canopy? Are you standing up all of your landings? Do you own it, or are you renting gear? Been through any canopy control training? How strong are winds when you stop getting penetration right now? Do you care whether you jump in winds in higher than that right now? Before downsizing, make sure you're proficient with the canopy you have. There are two great checklists worth reading. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 and http://www.bigairsportz.com/art-skilldrills.php are good resources. and read the thread on jumping in winds...http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1621584;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread good lessons to learn there. Notice that the new person saysthe winds were fine, but the old timers who were there say she had no business jumping at the time. As you start jumping in higher winds, the cost of making some mistake goes up. At 700 jumps, I'm usualy grounding myself at 17mph and any time the winds are gusty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangemagoo 0 #9 May 3, 2005 QuoteMost people are going to defer advice to your instructors, since they know more about your canopy skills and your awareness level. In this case you have one on each side of the debate. I'm sure we're all wondering why each instructor feels the way they do. Maybe sit down with both of them and the three of you can come to an agreement. Downsizing just be able to jump in higher wind conditions seems kind of crazy to me. Are you comfortable with your current canopy? Are you standing up all of your landings? Do you own it, or are you renting gear? Been through any canopy control training? How strong are winds when you stop getting penetration right now? Do you care whether you jump in winds in higher than that right now? Before downsizing, make sure you're proficient with the canopy you have. There are two great checklists worth reading. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 and http://www.bigairsportz.com/art-skilldrills.php are good resources. I'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. I've been standing up nearly all of the landings on the 170. I come in at a comfortable speed when there is no wind or very light wind. Yesterday, however, we had 10-12mph winds, and I came straight down. Set up my final in an appropriate place, and was about 100 yards short because I could get no forward speed. I think I'll stay with the 170 for awhile. I do trust the instructor that is telling me to downsize. He says I'm doing really well. The other instructor says he's just concerned about doing too much too fast. I listen to them both and respect them both. Just wanted to get some other opinion out there. I don't want to biff. Thanks for the resources! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #10 May 3, 2005 QuoteNo offense guys but giving advice on wingloading with your (and my) jump numbers is going a bit far. Perhaps allow some more experienced jumpers to reply to these sorts of questions. Bingo. So far, only one person with decent experience replied. People, be careful about what 100 jumps wonders advise... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #11 May 3, 2005 lol.. did you change your jump #'s just for this post? And on a serious note, I'll second Drew's postI promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #12 May 3, 2005 .....is a .92 wingloading too much for somebody with only 41 jumps? I have a wingloading of .83 currently*** I had 200 jumps before I exceeded a .9 wingloading. but I got tired of backing up in moderate winds. So I know where your coming from. I really dont think anyone should have any problems with your going to .92 An good standard is 1-1, so unless you are pulling 180 degree turns at 90 feet or doing other dangerous canopy maneuvers-you should be fine at 41 jumps. Your instructors/coaches should be able to advise you on gear selection. I have been told that I am quite the canopy nazi - trying to slow low time jumpers down in their quest to fly faster/smaller canopy's. but I havent ever had any heartburn over a low timer jumping at a 1-1 wingloading unless it was a full eliptical - or a Xbraced canopy. big canopy's can teach you quite a lot, but I understand going to 1-1 or near. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efex 0 #13 May 3, 2005 Frenchy, please dont use the term '100 jump wonder'. Its particularly insulting when most of the advice given is sound. Warwick University Skydiving Club Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 May 3, 2005 Recently, while at Eloy, watching some hot swoops, I heard 2 of the locals chatting. After watching a what I thought was an OK swoop, I heard one say to the other, "These 2000 jump wonders... They just don't get it." I'm sorry, I can't agree with your crit on Frenchy. Seeing 3 people with a combined jump number of 116 giving advice to someone with 41 jumps is simply terrifying, regardless of the content. If it's right this time, the student (victim?) will listen to the next instalment. How long do you think it takes before that leads to a problem? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #15 May 3, 2005 QuoteNo offense guys but giving advice on wingloading with your (and my) jump numbers is going a bit far. Perhaps allow some more experienced jumpers to reply to these sorts of questions. I know Erin and she knows that my reply wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I would NEVER give real advice to anyone because as I said: ***I know nothing...really.Quote And I meant that. That being said, I have asked this question myself and was told that I should not exceed 1:1 when I purchase a rig. I've also been told that I should ask an instructor before I buy anything.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites koz2000 1 #16 May 3, 2005 QuoteThese 2000 jump wonders.. Did you mean 200 jump wonders? ______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #17 May 3, 2005 No. 2000. One of my swoop protege's was present and witness to it. he has about 400 jumps. It certainly helped put him in place on the pecking order. All experience is relative. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Salsa_John 0 #18 May 3, 2005 I am 195lbs out the door. I jumped a 240 Navigator until I was standing most of my landings. .81 30 jumps, I downsized to a 210 and did the same. .92 35 jumps, and now on a 190 1.03, I plan to fly this for some time. I did check with my instructors before downsizing for their ok but did not downsize until I felt comfortable. Met some oldtimers at some boogies. The two pieces of advice they all gave were about safety, DO NOT get in a rush to downsize and run all questions by your instructors. Take a canopy control course on a canopy you are doing well on...per Scott Miller I hope that helps "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #19 May 3, 2005 QuoteFrenchy, please dont use the term '100 jump wonder'. Its particularly insulting when most of the advice given is sound. Just to clarify my position, based on personal experience: - at 10 jumps, I thought that someone with 100 was an experienced veteran - at 10 jumps, the amount of information I had gathered in few weeks was so mind boggling, that I had the impression I "Knew" about the sport. And I felt like sharing that knowledge. I now start realizing that not only do I know shit, I do not know how much I do not know. Some advices may be sound in themselves, but it doesn't mean they apply to specific situations. There is a difference between a newbie stating that "this is what happened to me, and this is what I did" and "you should do that". FYI: I used the term "100 jump wonder" so as to include myself. The number of jumps in itself does not mean shit. But the experience gathered through these jumps is valuable. Low jump number = little experience = more likely to give advices that are wrong = potentially dangerous situation. My opinion. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grue 1 #20 May 3, 2005 WARNING WARNING WARNING: Newbie post in progress!! I had a similar question floating through my brain last weekend. With an out-the-door weight of 240lbs, I'd made my first six jumps on a Skymaster 290, standing up five out of the six landings. Last weekend, we were low on student rigs (out for repacks), and my instructor asked if I wanted to downsize. I asked him if he thought I was ready, he said yes, but if I was nervous, there's no need to do it. I decided to go with it. He ended up giving me a 230sqft Skymaster rig, moving me to a 1.04:1 wingload. Now, I stood up all three of my jumps that day, but the conditions were favourable. I had about a 10mph wind out of the west, clear skies, and I was the only person in the air. It was also fairly chilly out, so I had denser air to work with. I liked running the smaller canopy, because it seemed a lot more responsive to my inputs, but it did flare out faster, which caught me a little off guard. I did one big flare on my first jump with the canopy at the altitude that I normally flare the 290 at, and it finished sooner than I expected. Still stood it up, but for the next two jumps I did more of a two-stage flare, after talking to my instructor. Now, even though I did fine with the higher wingloading, that doesn't mean I'll use that smaller rig under all circumstances. if it's a lot warmer on my next jump day, I may use a 260 or even the 290 again, if my instructor thinks it's a good idea. I guess what I'm saying is that even though I successfully jumped a higher wingload than most people at my jump numbers, doesn't mean that I'd want a higher wingload in every situation. Certainly, if I hadn't been standing up almost all my landings, I doubt my instructor would have even considered the higher wingload last Sunday. If it's mainly a wind penetration issue, though, wouldn't it make more sense to be adjusting your flight pattern, by shortening your downwind leg and lengthening your final leg? Perhaps after talkign to your instructor? ATTENTION: NEWBIE POST COMPLETE.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #21 May 3, 2005 QuoteBy the generally accepted rules about jump numbers and wingloading: 0-100 jumps < 1.0:1 So, 0.9:1 for you is OK. Prehaps, I should have said that would be considered acceptable by Brian Germain's jump number and wingloading guideline reccomendations. Brian Added: I'm suprised abput how many people I've already met with less than 100 jumps flying canopies loaded at 1.3 and above. Do your homework brother, I did, cause it's my life I taking in my hands. I love this post: Quote All the facts add up. I hear it time and time again. The conversation goes like this: You are jumping a what? Yeah, but I am ready for it. You have how many jumps? Yeah, but I know the dangers. Your loading is 1.3? Yeah, but that is light for this canopy. You make a mistake and it's gonna bite you. Yeah, but I am being conservative and know my skill level. It's simple. You need experience. And you gain that experience by staying on a more forgiving canopy for hundres and hundreds of jumps. A Pilot 150 at 1.3 is NOT a forgiving canopy. You can be the most conservative pilot on the world, but that time when ings don't go perfect and you make a mistake , it will cost you dearly. It seems, more and more people think that Crossfires, Stilettos, Pilots, etc, are ok intermediate canopies. I see more and more people jumping canopies like a Crossfire or a Cobalt, loading them at 1.2 to 1.6, and just at the point of their experience level where they are doing conventional landings of just starting to learn front risers. My question is why? There is just no point to be on that type of canopy at that point. -Chris Cowden http://www.badfishfreefly.com I print it out and give it to people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #22 May 3, 2005 QuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. I do not have the experience that Tonto does or many, many others who post on this site. I chose to respond to a few sentences of your post. Only offering a canopy control course to those who own their own mains is a silly idea IMO. Even if you won't be jumping that gear for very long, the skills and knowledge that you gain from the course will help you regardless of which canopy you fly. And do they GIVE you the course or do you pay for it? Think about that too. If you are renting the gear, and paying for the course, why not?? I wish so badly that i had taken Brian Germain's course when it was offered at our dz, whenever i hear of another course in my state, i am going to do whatever i can to go because i feel that everyone should. Just my $.02 and if i get change back, i wouldn't be offended. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #23 May 3, 2005 QuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. As Brains posted, I don't see the reason for having to own the gear. I took BG's class last year at your jump total, with rental gear, because I was biffing the low wind landings and wanted to fix it sooner than later. And it worked well. I used a Spectre 210 for that ... perhaps it would have been less beneficial with a student chute that no longer flares well. But I took what I got out and applied it fine to Fusions and the Triathlon I eventually got. On the 100jump wonder question - I'd suggest we at least not answer such a question in the first hour or two. And then stick to the personal experiences that may be useful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites orangemagoo 0 #24 May 3, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. I do not have the experience that Tonto does or many, many others who post on this site. I chose to respond to a few sentences of your post. Only offering a canopy control course to those who own their own mains is a silly idea IMO. Even if you won't be jumping that gear for very long, the skills and knowledge that you gain from the course will help you regardless of which canopy you fly. And do they GIVE you the course or do you pay for it? Think about that too. If you are renting the gear, and paying for the course, why not?? I wish so badly that i had taken Brian Germain's course when it was offered at our dz, whenever i hear of another course in my state, i am going to do whatever i can to go because i feel that everyone should. Just my $.02 and if i get change back, i wouldn't be offended. Hmmmm......good point. I will be paying for it. What's the difference whether it's a 170 now or a 150 in the future, right? I'll bring that up at the DZ. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpjunkie2004 0 #25 May 3, 2005 By the way, I registered for a canopy control course in DeLand. It's Scott Miller's course. The only requirements for his course are that I be self-supervised and current. In his email to me, he even mentioned that I would be able to rent gear if needed.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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koz2000 1 #16 May 3, 2005 QuoteThese 2000 jump wonders.. Did you mean 200 jump wonders? ______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #17 May 3, 2005 No. 2000. One of my swoop protege's was present and witness to it. he has about 400 jumps. It certainly helped put him in place on the pecking order. All experience is relative. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #18 May 3, 2005 I am 195lbs out the door. I jumped a 240 Navigator until I was standing most of my landings. .81 30 jumps, I downsized to a 210 and did the same. .92 35 jumps, and now on a 190 1.03, I plan to fly this for some time. I did check with my instructors before downsizing for their ok but did not downsize until I felt comfortable. Met some oldtimers at some boogies. The two pieces of advice they all gave were about safety, DO NOT get in a rush to downsize and run all questions by your instructors. Take a canopy control course on a canopy you are doing well on...per Scott Miller I hope that helps "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #19 May 3, 2005 QuoteFrenchy, please dont use the term '100 jump wonder'. Its particularly insulting when most of the advice given is sound. Just to clarify my position, based on personal experience: - at 10 jumps, I thought that someone with 100 was an experienced veteran - at 10 jumps, the amount of information I had gathered in few weeks was so mind boggling, that I had the impression I "Knew" about the sport. And I felt like sharing that knowledge. I now start realizing that not only do I know shit, I do not know how much I do not know. Some advices may be sound in themselves, but it doesn't mean they apply to specific situations. There is a difference between a newbie stating that "this is what happened to me, and this is what I did" and "you should do that". FYI: I used the term "100 jump wonder" so as to include myself. The number of jumps in itself does not mean shit. But the experience gathered through these jumps is valuable. Low jump number = little experience = more likely to give advices that are wrong = potentially dangerous situation. My opinion. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #20 May 3, 2005 WARNING WARNING WARNING: Newbie post in progress!! I had a similar question floating through my brain last weekend. With an out-the-door weight of 240lbs, I'd made my first six jumps on a Skymaster 290, standing up five out of the six landings. Last weekend, we were low on student rigs (out for repacks), and my instructor asked if I wanted to downsize. I asked him if he thought I was ready, he said yes, but if I was nervous, there's no need to do it. I decided to go with it. He ended up giving me a 230sqft Skymaster rig, moving me to a 1.04:1 wingload. Now, I stood up all three of my jumps that day, but the conditions were favourable. I had about a 10mph wind out of the west, clear skies, and I was the only person in the air. It was also fairly chilly out, so I had denser air to work with. I liked running the smaller canopy, because it seemed a lot more responsive to my inputs, but it did flare out faster, which caught me a little off guard. I did one big flare on my first jump with the canopy at the altitude that I normally flare the 290 at, and it finished sooner than I expected. Still stood it up, but for the next two jumps I did more of a two-stage flare, after talking to my instructor. Now, even though I did fine with the higher wingloading, that doesn't mean I'll use that smaller rig under all circumstances. if it's a lot warmer on my next jump day, I may use a 260 or even the 290 again, if my instructor thinks it's a good idea. I guess what I'm saying is that even though I successfully jumped a higher wingload than most people at my jump numbers, doesn't mean that I'd want a higher wingload in every situation. Certainly, if I hadn't been standing up almost all my landings, I doubt my instructor would have even considered the higher wingload last Sunday. If it's mainly a wind penetration issue, though, wouldn't it make more sense to be adjusting your flight pattern, by shortening your downwind leg and lengthening your final leg? Perhaps after talkign to your instructor? ATTENTION: NEWBIE POST COMPLETE.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #21 May 3, 2005 QuoteBy the generally accepted rules about jump numbers and wingloading: 0-100 jumps < 1.0:1 So, 0.9:1 for you is OK. Prehaps, I should have said that would be considered acceptable by Brian Germain's jump number and wingloading guideline reccomendations. Brian Added: I'm suprised abput how many people I've already met with less than 100 jumps flying canopies loaded at 1.3 and above. Do your homework brother, I did, cause it's my life I taking in my hands. I love this post: Quote All the facts add up. I hear it time and time again. The conversation goes like this: You are jumping a what? Yeah, but I am ready for it. You have how many jumps? Yeah, but I know the dangers. Your loading is 1.3? Yeah, but that is light for this canopy. You make a mistake and it's gonna bite you. Yeah, but I am being conservative and know my skill level. It's simple. You need experience. And you gain that experience by staying on a more forgiving canopy for hundres and hundreds of jumps. A Pilot 150 at 1.3 is NOT a forgiving canopy. You can be the most conservative pilot on the world, but that time when ings don't go perfect and you make a mistake , it will cost you dearly. It seems, more and more people think that Crossfires, Stilettos, Pilots, etc, are ok intermediate canopies. I see more and more people jumping canopies like a Crossfire or a Cobalt, loading them at 1.2 to 1.6, and just at the point of their experience level where they are doing conventional landings of just starting to learn front risers. My question is why? There is just no point to be on that type of canopy at that point. -Chris Cowden http://www.badfishfreefly.com I print it out and give it to people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #22 May 3, 2005 QuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. I do not have the experience that Tonto does or many, many others who post on this site. I chose to respond to a few sentences of your post. Only offering a canopy control course to those who own their own mains is a silly idea IMO. Even if you won't be jumping that gear for very long, the skills and knowledge that you gain from the course will help you regardless of which canopy you fly. And do they GIVE you the course or do you pay for it? Think about that too. If you are renting the gear, and paying for the course, why not?? I wish so badly that i had taken Brian Germain's course when it was offered at our dz, whenever i hear of another course in my state, i am going to do whatever i can to go because i feel that everyone should. Just my $.02 and if i get change back, i wouldn't be offended. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 May 3, 2005 QuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. As Brains posted, I don't see the reason for having to own the gear. I took BG's class last year at your jump total, with rental gear, because I was biffing the low wind landings and wanted to fix it sooner than later. And it worked well. I used a Spectre 210 for that ... perhaps it would have been less beneficial with a student chute that no longer flares well. But I took what I got out and applied it fine to Fusions and the Triathlon I eventually got. On the 100jump wonder question - I'd suggest we at least not answer such a question in the first hour or two. And then stick to the personal experiences that may be useful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangemagoo 0 #24 May 3, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'm comfortable with this canopy right now (170). I'm renting it. I'd like to take a canopy control class, but they are only offering it to people with their own rigs and mains....the rationale being why give a class to somebody that won't be jumping that gear very long....and I can understand that. I do not have the experience that Tonto does or many, many others who post on this site. I chose to respond to a few sentences of your post. Only offering a canopy control course to those who own their own mains is a silly idea IMO. Even if you won't be jumping that gear for very long, the skills and knowledge that you gain from the course will help you regardless of which canopy you fly. And do they GIVE you the course or do you pay for it? Think about that too. If you are renting the gear, and paying for the course, why not?? I wish so badly that i had taken Brian Germain's course when it was offered at our dz, whenever i hear of another course in my state, i am going to do whatever i can to go because i feel that everyone should. Just my $.02 and if i get change back, i wouldn't be offended. Hmmmm......good point. I will be paying for it. What's the difference whether it's a 170 now or a 150 in the future, right? I'll bring that up at the DZ. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #25 May 3, 2005 By the way, I registered for a canopy control course in DeLand. It's Scott Miller's course. The only requirements for his course are that I be self-supervised and current. In his email to me, he even mentioned that I would be able to rent gear if needed.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
