BillyVance 35 #26 May 12, 2005 QuoteMy mom was all for it until my Grandparents found out and chewed her out about it. Oops... so who let the cat out of the bag? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacncathyjr 0 #27 May 12, 2005 The only problem I have with that is I'm 14. and I have seen some of my friends die in front of me . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #28 May 12, 2005 Also, a lot of those "waviers" are also authorizations to take the kid somewhere you don't expect them to be, i.e. the zoo. Do things you may not want them to do, i.e. sex ed. And act in loco parentis if something does happen. The ones that include wavier of liability are probably no better than a skydiving wavier or worse than a skydiving wavier r.e. kids.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #29 May 12, 2005 QuoteI don’t think children have the experience of life to be able to decide if they want to introduce risks to it or not. Well, in that way you do not give them the chance to get life experience. I'm still a minor myself (for another 15 days I don't really see why a lack of life experience should stop someone of not going into skydiving? Skydiving is a way to get life experiences! I agree that people should understand the possible consequences of their actions, but not much people understand them. For example: when someone has a new BF or GF everyone congratulates him/her but no-one will point out the possible consequences (heart break) to them. If some-one want to take up skydiving everybody declares you crazy and points out to you that you can get killed or injured doing it. When the relationship end everyone feels sorry for him/her, but when they get injured in skydiving, all everyone (meaning whuffo's) think is: see, I told you you stupid. What is the difference between the 2? To me this is only another example of how irrational people can think, while they all think they are thinking rational. Thijs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Maxx 1 #30 May 12, 2005 I started to think about skydiving when I was 14 and at that moment I started to save money, because I knew it's gonna be expensive. With 16 I did my AFF's and my licence, my money was all gone after I bought my first rig. I think I was at all the time well aware of what I was doing and more important WHY I was doing this.. The only thing that always bothered me was the fact that I was always and everywhere the youngest (and treated as such) .. Now I'm 20 and things haven't changed that much. I'm still the youngest on every boogie I visit, but at least people don't recognize it.. But being a young skydiver also has his downsides.. e.g. I had my first reeaaeal bad hangover at the dropzone.. Feet up! Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #31 May 12, 2005 QuoteQuote[Amen brother! er, that's sister. In SA you can skydive from 16, with parental consent under 21. And Tandems are no problem. My Daughter did 2 with me when she was 8, and still nags me for more... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #32 May 12, 2005 QuoteThe only problem I have with that is I'm 14. and I have seen some of my friends die in front of me . The downside of an arbitrary line are the outliers. You may well be one of them. Some of the protection that absolute line offers is from the parents. I worry a bit less about teens who try to press the issue than parents who drive it. I've seen scared 8 yo kids at the climbing gyms being shouted at by their parent. The ground involvement you've chosen to do as a packer would suggest that you could be held to a less restrictive standard, though I don't know how to make it into a policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #33 May 12, 2005 A waiver signed by a parent, for a child, is absolutely useless in a court of law. No DZ owner in his right mind would let an adult jump without signing a waiver. When you let someone under 18 jump, no matter who signs the waiver, THERE IS NO WAIVER. It is not "dangerous" to jump with children. I jumped my daughter Katie into the North Pole for her 12th birthday. It is just unwise to do it commercially in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Travman 6 #34 May 12, 2005 In New Zealand there is no age limit on tandems (so I hear). As for getting an A licence, it certainly depends on the kid but you can say that about anything. We can't drive a car until 16 and get your licence at 17. Some kids could start earlier, but some couldn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #35 May 12, 2005 Quote Jimmy Trantor's family owned a dz and he started jumping at 14 if I recall That's true. I've seen that video a few times. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #36 May 12, 2005 Quoteif you're allowed to drive a car (infinitely more dangerous) Are you sure about this? For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #37 May 12, 2005 QuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Children pose a danger to fewer people when skydiving than driving. Letting them skydive with parental permission would be fine in countries with more reasonable legal situations. Letting them skydive without that wouldn't be too different from other dangerous sports like skiing, motocross, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #38 May 13, 2005 when you really think about it, its all relative. i think modern society gives much less credit to kids (minors) than is due. just 100 years ago the concept of a "minor" didnt really exist when it came to military service, marriage, etc. funny to think that today 50% of marriages end in divorce, but your grandparents and great-grandparents who were married til death do them part likely got married as young as age 13..... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #39 May 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Children pose a danger to fewer people when skydiving than driving. Letting them skydive with parental permission would be fine in countries with more reasonable legal situations. Letting them skydive without that wouldn't be too different from other dangerous sports like skiing, motocross, etc. Yep as mentioned previous, South Af, UK and Oz allow AFF at 16, In Oz tandem at 14. In New Zealand you can do a tandem if you fit in the harnessYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JoeBobinNC 0 #40 May 13, 2005 Depends on the person. There are one or two 16 year olds at my DZ who could probably fly circles around me. As a general rule though I believe that 16 is the youngest age anyone should be allowed to start AFF. As a tandem "student" I'd slide it back to 14. It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #41 May 13, 2005 QuoteYes, I agree, but they still do not have life experience. What life experience prepares a person to make their first skydive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #42 May 13, 2005 absolutely... but first we have to shoot all the lawyers ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #43 May 13, 2005 QuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Hi PC JR Well certain kids can because they grew up around DZ's just like you I'm sure you've spent more time at the DZ, and packed more rigs than a lot of "legal jumpers" ever will. Listen to your mom when she thinks your ready she can make it work for you just like mullins did for his kids. Just don't screw it up. Until then Pack your ass off and save your money so when your ready you can afford to skydive until you puke. You'll be old enough sooner than you think. R.I.P. (DZ name) BTW say hi to yyour mom for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites achowe 0 #44 May 13, 2005 QuoteWhat life experience prepares a person to make their first skydive? I did not say to make their first skydive, but to understand the consequences of what could happen. I really dont see how a 14 year old (I know I couldnt at that age) can decide whether or not their life is worth putting at risk. And skydiving is going to put your life at risk, no qualms.------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philly51 0 #45 May 13, 2005 Underage skydiving should commence the day after ALL the lawyers are dead. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites achowe 0 #46 May 13, 2005 nice way of putting it ------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites outlawphx 1 #47 May 13, 2005 When I started skydiving (tandem at 15, FJC when I turned 16), it was at a smaller Cesna & Queen Air dropzone, and my mother was a realtor (wuffo) that worked with a bunch of the jumpers. In that environment, I had a ton of people that looked out for me, and they weren't afraid to get on my case if I was doing something stupid. I hung out there every weekend packing for jump money and helping with students, so it was a great environment for a kid to learn the sport. BTW, one of the people that looked out for me back then is on this board (Jimbo i.e Bozo). I think things could be different at a large dropzone, where it's easy to get lost in the crowd. It also depends on the attitude of the kid. I was always a serious and responsible teenager, and between my attitude and witnessing enough injuries first hand, I was probably much older than my years would show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pacncathyjr 0 #48 May 13, 2005 my older brother told the night befor I was gonna do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thomas... 0 #49 May 13, 2005 Is this about children about the age of 14 or about people at the age of 17? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites achowe 0 #50 May 13, 2005 under 16 i presume, thats what i was talking about anyway------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! 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Maxx 1 #30 May 12, 2005 I started to think about skydiving when I was 14 and at that moment I started to save money, because I knew it's gonna be expensive. With 16 I did my AFF's and my licence, my money was all gone after I bought my first rig. I think I was at all the time well aware of what I was doing and more important WHY I was doing this.. The only thing that always bothered me was the fact that I was always and everywhere the youngest (and treated as such) .. Now I'm 20 and things haven't changed that much. I'm still the youngest on every boogie I visit, but at least people don't recognize it.. But being a young skydiver also has his downsides.. e.g. I had my first reeaaeal bad hangover at the dropzone.. Feet up! Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #31 May 12, 2005 QuoteQuote[Amen brother! er, that's sister. In SA you can skydive from 16, with parental consent under 21. And Tandems are no problem. My Daughter did 2 with me when she was 8, and still nags me for more... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #32 May 12, 2005 QuoteThe only problem I have with that is I'm 14. and I have seen some of my friends die in front of me . The downside of an arbitrary line are the outliers. You may well be one of them. Some of the protection that absolute line offers is from the parents. I worry a bit less about teens who try to press the issue than parents who drive it. I've seen scared 8 yo kids at the climbing gyms being shouted at by their parent. The ground involvement you've chosen to do as a packer would suggest that you could be held to a less restrictive standard, though I don't know how to make it into a policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #33 May 12, 2005 A waiver signed by a parent, for a child, is absolutely useless in a court of law. No DZ owner in his right mind would let an adult jump without signing a waiver. When you let someone under 18 jump, no matter who signs the waiver, THERE IS NO WAIVER. It is not "dangerous" to jump with children. I jumped my daughter Katie into the North Pole for her 12th birthday. It is just unwise to do it commercially in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #34 May 12, 2005 In New Zealand there is no age limit on tandems (so I hear). As for getting an A licence, it certainly depends on the kid but you can say that about anything. We can't drive a car until 16 and get your licence at 17. Some kids could start earlier, but some couldn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #35 May 12, 2005 Quote Jimmy Trantor's family owned a dz and he started jumping at 14 if I recall That's true. I've seen that video a few times. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #36 May 12, 2005 Quoteif you're allowed to drive a car (infinitely more dangerous) Are you sure about this? For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #37 May 12, 2005 QuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Children pose a danger to fewer people when skydiving than driving. Letting them skydive with parental permission would be fine in countries with more reasonable legal situations. Letting them skydive without that wouldn't be too different from other dangerous sports like skiing, motocross, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #38 May 13, 2005 when you really think about it, its all relative. i think modern society gives much less credit to kids (minors) than is due. just 100 years ago the concept of a "minor" didnt really exist when it came to military service, marriage, etc. funny to think that today 50% of marriages end in divorce, but your grandparents and great-grandparents who were married til death do them part likely got married as young as age 13..... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #39 May 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Children pose a danger to fewer people when skydiving than driving. Letting them skydive with parental permission would be fine in countries with more reasonable legal situations. Letting them skydive without that wouldn't be too different from other dangerous sports like skiing, motocross, etc. Yep as mentioned previous, South Af, UK and Oz allow AFF at 16, In Oz tandem at 14. In New Zealand you can do a tandem if you fit in the harnessYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBobinNC 0 #40 May 13, 2005 Depends on the person. There are one or two 16 year olds at my DZ who could probably fly circles around me. As a general rule though I believe that 16 is the youngest age anyone should be allowed to start AFF. As a tandem "student" I'd slide it back to 14. It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #41 May 13, 2005 QuoteYes, I agree, but they still do not have life experience. What life experience prepares a person to make their first skydive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #42 May 13, 2005 absolutely... but first we have to shoot all the lawyers ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #43 May 13, 2005 QuoteI understand that it isn't aloud because parents can't sign away rights.But I think if you grew up in the sport and understand you can die.You should be able to jump. Hi PC JR Well certain kids can because they grew up around DZ's just like you I'm sure you've spent more time at the DZ, and packed more rigs than a lot of "legal jumpers" ever will. Listen to your mom when she thinks your ready she can make it work for you just like mullins did for his kids. Just don't screw it up. Until then Pack your ass off and save your money so when your ready you can afford to skydive until you puke. You'll be old enough sooner than you think. R.I.P. (DZ name) BTW say hi to yyour mom for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
achowe 0 #44 May 13, 2005 QuoteWhat life experience prepares a person to make their first skydive? I did not say to make their first skydive, but to understand the consequences of what could happen. I really dont see how a 14 year old (I know I couldnt at that age) can decide whether or not their life is worth putting at risk. And skydiving is going to put your life at risk, no qualms.------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philly51 0 #45 May 13, 2005 Underage skydiving should commence the day after ALL the lawyers are dead. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
achowe 0 #46 May 13, 2005 nice way of putting it ------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outlawphx 1 #47 May 13, 2005 When I started skydiving (tandem at 15, FJC when I turned 16), it was at a smaller Cesna & Queen Air dropzone, and my mother was a realtor (wuffo) that worked with a bunch of the jumpers. In that environment, I had a ton of people that looked out for me, and they weren't afraid to get on my case if I was doing something stupid. I hung out there every weekend packing for jump money and helping with students, so it was a great environment for a kid to learn the sport. BTW, one of the people that looked out for me back then is on this board (Jimbo i.e Bozo). I think things could be different at a large dropzone, where it's easy to get lost in the crowd. It also depends on the attitude of the kid. I was always a serious and responsible teenager, and between my attitude and witnessing enough injuries first hand, I was probably much older than my years would show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacncathyjr 0 #48 May 13, 2005 my older brother told the night befor I was gonna do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas... 0 #49 May 13, 2005 Is this about children about the age of 14 or about people at the age of 17? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
achowe 0 #50 May 13, 2005 under 16 i presume, thats what i was talking about anyway------------------------------------------------- Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
