Ditching

[HardCorr 0]

Reading KimBlair13's post about plane problems made me wonder:

Has anyone had to do a bailout because of a catastrophic malfunction with the aircraft? If so, please explain the details.

Also if you've had any instances where you've had to jump out early but the plane was still recoverable, please post those also.

Blue Skies

The key to being a good teacher, is to be a good listener...

[DrewGPM 0]

I've only had to bail out once.

The ride felt kind of funny and then I notice the funny look on the face of the sitting across from me. I looked over my shoulder and was dumbfounded. The left engine was stopped, so the prop wasn't turning! We were at 10,000 ft, in a twin otter...so the plane was still flyable.

One of the tandem mastered relayed the instructions from the pilot. everyone out! It was during a 4-way competition and team at the door starts to climb out, like a regular exit! My team mate leans in yells "it's an emergency, get out out of the f$%@ plane"

Kudos to our pilot and the instructor for keeping the situation under control and handling the situation so well.

All in all, it was a pretty interesting experience. I imagine things would have been different if we were at 2,000 feet!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

  Quote

Has anyone had to do a bailout because of a catastrophic malfunction with the aircraft? If so, please explain the details.

On my 69th jump I had to exit the aircraft prematurely when it ran out of fuel. Fortunately I bailed out at 5700 feet AGL and the pilot did a good job getting us near the airport. So it wasn't a big deal.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[funks 1]

never had to bail but i bet that would make for quite an interesting skydive having 20+ people of various skills and disciplines filing out the door one after another....

[mt_skydiver 0]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but even at 10k, does everyone just file out and pop their mains? I'm assuming so since there could be a lot of confusion if everyone just decided to fall to where ever they are comfortable with...

You'll never find me Jew gold!

[mattjw916 2]

no, for 10k, get whatever group you were jumping with together in the air (build a round or just continue with the skydive as planned) and continue down to normal breakoff and track altitude, deploy at normal altitude.

That is what I was taught, other DZs may have other procedures or taught something else.

edit: just to clarify, you need to find out what the procedure is for where YOU are jumping at. This should really have been covered when you were a student.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[funks 1]

  Quote

no, for 10k, get whatever group you were jumping with together in the air (build a round or just continue with the skydive as planned) and continue down to normal breakoff and track altitude, deploy at normal altitude.

.

and just ignore what the other 15+ or so people are doing in the sky around you?

[mattjw916 2]

They should all be doing the same thing, get out, form up, look for missing jumpers, clear the airspace above, ensure a clean break off with separation... deploy at normal altitude. This for example, would be used for an emergency exit from high altitude in an Otter with someone flapping behind the plane hanging by his main off of the horizontal stab. Not for something like a wing falling off or aircraft spinning towards the ground.

Everyone pitching randomly out the door, esp people that aren't used to doing H&Ps is going to be far more dangerous. Hell, I even had a friend that had someone fall through their end-cell on a x-country dive.

Depending on the aircraft, # of jumpers, type of emergency, and altitude this is obviously going to change.

If you've got better ideas Poncharello, I'm all ears. I was recounting what I was taught, not providing instuctions.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[funks 1]

  Quote

They should all be doing the same thing, get out, form up, look for missing jumpers, clear the airspace above, ensure a clean break off with separation... deploy at normal altitude. This for example, would be used for an emergency exit from high altitude in an Otter with someone flapping behind the plane hanging by his main off of the horizontal stab. Not for something like a wing falling off or aircraft spinning towards the ground.

Everyone pitching randomly out the door, esp people that aren't used to doing H&Ps is going to be far more dangerous. Hell, I even had a friend that had someone fall through their end-cell on a x-country dive.

Depending on the aircraft, # of jumpers, type of emergency, and altitude this is obviously going to change.

If you've got better ideas Poncharello, I'm all ears. I was recounting what I was taught, not providing instuctions.

Odds are though that you are going to have many different skill levels and disciplines on that load, so to expect EVERYONE to come together is pretty far fetched, i just dont see it happening. Once again, I have never had to bail but i cant imagine this being a typical game plan for what happens once everyone is out the door.

[mattjw916 2]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to convey "everyone" I meant if you were on a 4 way, form up... next 2 way, form up... solos do what you were going to do, students stay with their instructors do what they say, pull when they tell you, etc. Keep the freefall part as unexciting as possible, and break off and track like your life depends on it, because it does. Don't pull needlessly high and interject more unknowns into the problem. Just what I was taught once again, YMMV.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[efex 0]

The standard OP for any aircraft emergency is to do what you are told by the jump master. If these means do a 10 seconds delay from 10K it means just that.

It could well be that you are a long way from DZ and will need that altitude under canopy to make some sort of progress back. I have been at DZ's where if you got out at the wrong point you could be upto 20-30 miles away.

Personally if I were involved in a bail out (serious emergency, i.e an engine just fell off) situation (never have been so far) without further instructions I would pile out with everyone else, check the spot, and then start getting seperation immediately. There would normally be jumpers of all sorts of expereinces on board and my main goal would be to go and find my own piece of sky. If the spot required me to open higher then I would make sure I have the seperation to do it first.

Just my two cents

Warwick University Skydiving Club

[kelpdiver 2]

  Quote

edit: just to clarify, you need to find out what the procedure is for where YOU are jumping at. This should really have been covered when you were a student.

At all the DZs I've visited, the briefing never covered a SOP for aircraft emergency. I can't imagine how you could have one - situations vary. If the problem is slow enough developing that everyone does their planned skydive, then there's time to say so. But if there is any urgency in getting everyone off, clear and pull seems like the only way to do it safely.

[HardCorr 0]

I appreciate the refresher for everyone but I'd like to hear of some of actual events as they took place from people that have been involved in bailouts.

That might be a good post for someone to put up though!

The key to being a good teacher, is to be a good listener...

[mattjw916 2]

Okay, so who is the jumpmaster? What if there is NO ONE experienced on the plane or even worse yet, what if _you are_ the experienced one... it happens at bigger DZs more often in my short experience. I agree, pretty much every situation will go case by case but to have a modicum of a plan is better than people in various states of stability pitching at varying altitudes with little to no separation. IMHO.

Kelp: I have been to DZs that had NO briefings of any kind. Just because it didn't happen, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[JohnRich 4]

Just keep the exit as normal as possible. However, you don't want to chunk a large group off from outside the plane, or put too much weight to the rear, when the pilot only has one engine. Help the pilot maintain flight - he's already busy, don't make things worse.

If altitude is minimal, do a single file exit for hop n' pops.

And don't call for a "cut". You don't want the pilot reflexively pulling the power on the one remaining good engine.

Tandem masters and instructors with students: decide if they have enough altitude for a safe jump, or if they should ride the plane back down. For dual-instructor AFF, one instructor can stay with the student, while the other bails out. Do a quick "rock-paper-scissors" game to decide.

If you're away from the airport, everyone should try to land in the same place, so a head count can be taken, and for ease of transportation back to the airport when the support crews show up. They don't want to be looking for jumpers all over the countryside.

Personal incidents:

When I was a newbie in a C-182, we were at about 5K once when we started smelling burning rubber. The idea of "FIRE!" flashed through everyone's mind. Got the hell out. Turned out just to be some kind of broken engine accessory belt that was rubbing on something and getting melted.

Then there was a cracked cylinder head on the reciprocating engine of a Beaver, at about 2,000'. Oil streaming over the windshield, and past the door. I wanted out, but there was a static line student sitting by the doorway. And it wouldn't have been cool for all the experienced jumpers to trample him in order to get out. So we all rode it down, no problem. The Beaver carries several gallons of oil, and you can actually be losing oil at a good rate, and still have time to get down before you run out.

Then there was an Otter that had an engine quit. It was so subtle and handled so well by the pilot that some people on the load didn't even know we were down to one engine. Had altitude. Flew to the airport and did a normal exit.

And the last one I can think of right now was an out of fuel situation on a Beaver. The engine sputtered, and the pilot reached down and started pumping some handle on the floor vigorously. I didn't know what that was at the time. The engine caught and came back to life, normal jump run but at abbreviated altitude. That handle turned out to be something that pressurizes the emergency fuel tank to make fuel flow even if you have no fuel pump. Or something like that.

So I'm averaging some kind of aircraft emergency about once every 1,000 jumps...

[happythoughts 0]

I always board the a/c ready to jump.
If you are waiting for 8K to do your gear checks and the plane as problems at 3K...

Also, you aren't going to get terminal right away. Your main isn't going to come out as fast if sub-terminal. Think about using your reserve instead of your main if you are too low.

[nael 0]

  Quote

Keep the freefall part as unexciting as possible, and break off and track like your life depends on it, because it does. Don't pull needlessly high and interject more unknowns into the problem. Just what I was taught once again, YMMV.

Remember in an emergency exit you are not going to have the perfect spot. Wouldnt a better idea be to do a hop & pop regardless of the height of the plane so that you may at least have a chance
of getting back?

I've never had an emergency exit either, but if/when I do I'm pulling straight out the door (unless told otherwise during the emergency by someone experienced).

This has been discussed a lot on the forums and people have different opinions on what you should do and how you should exit (one at a time or every man for himself). Seems to be different at different dz's so it's probably best to talk to some instructors at your dz to see what they expect you to do in an emergency exit.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[Kris 0]

  Quote

Okay, so who is the jumpmaster? What if there is NO ONE experienced on the plane or even worse yet, what if _you are_ the experienced one... it happens at bigger DZs more often in my short experience. I agree, pretty much every situation will go case by case but to have a modicum of a plan is better than people in various states of stability pitching at varying altitudes with little to no separation. IMHO.

Kelp: I have been to DZs that had NO briefings of any kind. Just because it didn't happen, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

Efex jumps in the UK and they do things a bit differently. Flightline gear check before boarding for each jump and a designated jumpmaster on every load.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[DrewGPM 0]

  Quote

Okay, so who is the jumpmaster? ...

Officially the pilot is the one in charge. He/she has final say in everything. He may pass instructions to the jumpers, and since instructors with students are closest to the pilot, he may relay information to one instructor. That instructor will passes it on.

If it's a serious emergency I assume the pilot will just yell "get out of my plane!" don't wait for an instructor to translate. The Pilot is in command, do what he says. Talk to your pilot and S&TA to mae sure you know your DZ wants you to proceed.

[Orange1 0]

  Quote

Then there was a cracked cylinder head on the reciprocating engine of a Beaver, at about 2,000'. Oil streaming over the windshield, and past the door. I wanted out, but there was a static line student sitting by the doorway. And it wouldn't have been cool for all the experienced jumpers to trample him in order to get out. So we all rode it down, no problem.

At what altitude would you put out a SL student in an emergency? When I did SL we got hooked up at 1000' and for aircraft emergency above that we would have been put out.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[outlawphx 1]

Back when I was SL jumpmaster, I wouldn't hook up a student until we were at an altitude that I would put them out at on the SL if we had an emergency.

[Orange1 0]

  Quote

Back when I was SL jumpmaster, I wouldn't hook up a student until we were at an altitude that I would put them out at on the SL if we had an emergency.

and that altitude was...? as mentioned ours was 1000ft, same principle!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[AndyMan 7]

  Quote

If it's a serious emergency I assume the pilot will just yell "get out of my plane!" don't wait for an instructor to translate.

I think it's more likely that in a "real" emergency, the pilot will most likely say"Hold on, and don't move an inch!".

It's far more important that people be prepared for that scenario.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Sonicfreefly 0]

Was videoing a paraplegic tandem passenger when at 6,000 an exhaust valve let go and ended up dancing on top of a piston before breaking through and ending up in the crank case. Manage to get the passengers legs out of the door so the tandem master could exit. Last words from the passenger before we got out were, "what, we are not going to ten grand????"
Kodos to the pilot for getting the smoking plane back down in one piece.

[JohnRich 4]

  Quote

At what altitude would you put out a SL student in an emergency? When I did SL we got hooked up at 1000' and for aircraft emergency above that we would have been put out.

I wouldn't put one out at any altitude - I'm not an instructor.

Come to think of it now, he wasn't a static line student. This drop zone had waiver to put students out in freefall, by themselves, on their first jump! Hard to imagine now, and then. They had a SSE auto opener on the reserve, and a KAP-3 auto opener on the main. That info dates this story... So, anyway, 2,000' was too low to put a student out. And the pilot didn't think it was that dire of an emergency.

All that oil made me think otherwise, at the time.