First jump without a cypres!

[Orange1 0]

Admittedly only because the only rig packed and ready in my size didn't have one... but (having previously said i'd never jump without one!!) i decided to use it rather than miss the load and wait... and it kinda felt really good afterwards! I'll still definitely get one for my own rig (whenver that happens) but i did get an extra confidence boost from doing something without a security blanket.

This isn't a 'beer' first, is it?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Feeblemind 1]

Well if your profile is correct, you broke the USPA guidelines for required equipment while being a student:

Section 2-1, paragraph K section d: a functional automatic activation device that meets the manufacturer's recommended service schedule [FB]

I am assuming this is the 1st time you have broken the USPA rules while skydiving, so more .

Personally I will not jump without an ADD, it just seems foolish to me. I don't ever plan on depending on the ADD, but glad it's there just in case shit happens and I am incapacitated to the point I cant pull my handles.


Editied for spelling

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[tbrown 26]

This isn't a 'beer' first, is it?

[SkiD_PL8 0]

Congratulations. This thread will soon turn into the AAD or no AAD debate.

Greenie in training.

[tigra 0]

I'm surprised your dz has rental gear without aads.

[billvon 3,116]

>This isn't a 'beer' first, is it?

_Everything_ is a beer first if you tell people about it. It's like walking onto a DZ and saying "anyone want a free jump?"

But seriously, good to hear that you are able to jump without one _and_ that you're going to get one. The safest skydivers are the ones who don't need an AAD to jump safely - but who use one anyway.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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But seriously, good to hear that you are able to jump without one _and_ that you're going to get one. The safest skydivers are the ones who don't need an AAD to jump safely - but who use one anyway.

Kinda reminds me of the one time I forgot to arm my CYPRES and realized it half-way up the climb. I was like, "Uh oh... Let's be careful on this jump! Nothing like not having it on to invite a bump on the head that would necessitate it..."

It also reminds me of the confidence that I gained when I had my one cutaway. I had long before decided to not have my RSL connected (the guy who sold me the rig gave me the option before I took delivery of it). I decided against the RSL because of two things: I felt confident that I would not forget to pull, and I had heard some stories where a jumper very close to me would have died (to hear everyone recount it) if he had had an RSL. That turned me.

It was hard to have full confidence in not having an RSL until I actually did my job in place of it when it was a life-saving action.

As far as AADs go, the only problem is, like someone said, people never plan for the time they're going to have need of it. So it's not like you can get on the plane and say that there is something positive you are doing on this jump that will keep you from needing an AAD for certain. There could be that bozo who slams into you while diving to the formation... The guy who comes careening through the tracking flock... (Shit, I've had that kind of thing almost blast me twice now recently!)

"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[efex 0]

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I decided against the RSL because of two things: I felt confident that I would not forget to pull, and I had heard some stories where a jumper very close to me would have died (to hear everyone recount it) if he had had an RSL. That turned me.

I know that it is a little off topic (and in noway having a go at anyone atall), but just incase any new jumpers are reading this, there exists absolutly no reason 'not' to use an RSL on any canopy unless it is excessively loaded (it does however remain a personal choice which I happily respect). There is just no point proliferating the myth that they increase risk (which is almost as bad as the 45 degree rule).

Sorry I have a bit of a chip about people with little experience who heard RSL 'caused' problems so decided to remove it from their own gear

edit to add: this wasnt including jumping things like cameras or additonal snag points where an RSL should be disconnected as standard.

Warwick University Skydiving Club

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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I decided against the RSL because of two things: I felt confident that I would not forget to pull, and I had heard some stories where a jumper very close to me would have died (to hear everyone recount it) if he had had an RSL. That turned me.

I know that it is a little off topic (and in noway having a go at anyone atall), but just incase any new jumpers are reading this, there exists absolutly no reason 'not' to use an RSL on any canopy unless it is excessively loaded (it does however remain a personal choice which I happily respect). There is just no point proliferating the myth that they increase risk (which is almost as bad as the 45 degree rule).

Sorry I have a bit of a chip about people with little experience who heard RSL 'caused' problems so decided to remove it from their own gear

edit to add: this wasnt including jumping things like cameras or additonal snag points where an RSL should be disconnected as standard.

That is funny I can think of several reasons an RSL could cause problems. Granted with most of them you would have time to disconnect it first.

Greenie in training.

[efex 0]

i would be interested to know what those reasons are, and having a spinning malfunction isnt one of them.

Warwick University Skydiving Club

[NickDG 23]

Someone in the History Forum mentioned how everything in skydiving is so upside down nowadays.

My first jump "with" a Cypres was as big a deal as your first jump "without" one . . .

NickD BASE 194

[christelsabine 1]

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>This isn't a 'beer' first, is it?

_Everything_ is a beer first if you tell people about it. It's like walking onto a DZ and saying "anyone want a free jump?"

But seriously, good to hear that you are able to jump without one _and_ that you're going to get one. The safest skydivers are the ones who don't need an AAD to jump safely - but who use one anyway.

If I remember well, no license still means beeing a student. And students never jump w/o any AAD. At least in my country. Did I miss something?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnMitchell 16]

I made my first jump without a Cypress too!




Trust yourself. I like my Cypress but I never bet my life on it.

[pilotdave 0]

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I like my Cypress but I never bet my life on it.

If you ever need it, you will bet your life on it.

Dave

[billvon 3,116]

>My first jump "with" a Cypres was as big a deal as your first jump "without" one . . .

I can remember graduating from SL, being thankful that I could finally disconnect the Sentinel that I had been worrying about for the past six months. They had a 50/50 chance of firing if you pulled below 2500 feet.

[towerrat 0]

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Kinda reminds me of the one time I forgot to arm my CYPRES and realized it half-way up the climb. I was like, "Uh oh... Let's be careful on this jump!

------------------------------------------------------------
so.... having a cypress allows you to not be careful on the rest of your jumps?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

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[JohnMitchell 16]

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I can remember graduating from SL, being thankful that I could finally disconnect the Sentinel that I had been worrying about for the past six months. They had a 50/50 chance of firing if you pulled below 2500 feet.

Wasn't that the FXC, not the Sentinel? I bought an FXC for an AFF rig years ago. What a piece of crap.

[billvon 3,116]

>Wasn't that the FXC, not the Sentinel?

No, the FXC's were cool - you could set them for 500 feet and not have a lot of misfires at 2500. If I had had to get an AAD when I got off student status, I would have gotten an FXC and put it on my main. No worries about dual deployments, and spring-loaded PC's weren't a big deal when everyone was jumping Cruislites and Pursuits.

[smiles 0]

I'm still waiting on being able to post:

First jump with a cypres!


The time has come for me to invest....
Can't imagine I'll feel a burst of confidence or that I am wearing a security blanket....when that day comes.
What I know I will feel is:
Jumped 18 yrs. without one (minus FXC for training jumps).....and I have chosen to invest in my next 18 yrs. with one.

SMiles

eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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What I know I will feel is:
Jumped 18 yrs. without one (minus FXC for training jumps).....and I have chosen to invest in my next 18 yrs. with one.

SMiles

Yep, I know what you mean. We all jumped a long time being "dead men 'til we pulled."

You'll like having one. Read the instruction book from front to back. There's a lot of good stuff in there. I probably had 20 jumps with one before I did.

My comment on AAD's is that you'd feel really dumb bouncing with $1200 left in the bank that you could have spent on an AAD.

[Tonto 1]

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Did I miss something?

Yeah. We're not in your country.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[kelpdiver 2]

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It was hard to have full confidence in not having an RSL until I actually did my job in place of it when it was a life-saving action.
...

"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

There's a bit of a disconnect here, PJ.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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It was hard to have full confidence in not having an RSL until I actually did my job in place of it when it was a life-saving action.
...

"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

There's a bit of a disconnect here, PJ.

Pun intended?

[Ron 10]

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but just incase any new jumpers are reading this, there exists absolutly no reason 'not' to use an RSL on any canopy unless it is excessively loaded

They have killed people. Thats one reason right there. Do you need any other?

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Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
1/30/1997 Taupo, New Zealand MAL,DMAL? 35 2500 ?/Y
Description: After cutting away from a malfunction, it appears one riser hung up, while the side with the RSL released, casuing the reserve to deploy between the remaining riser. This riser then seperated, and the main ending up choking off the reserve. The pair decended on the partially inflated main which was caught on the wholly uninflated reserve.
Lessons:Some of the above is speculation, but it's a good reminder to perform your three ring maintenance regularly. If you don't know what I'm referring to, you should talk to your local rigger. In a nutshell, disconnect your main, flex the webbing of the three ring, clean the yellow cable with a dry cloth, (for metal housings) lightly oil the cable, reconnect the main, perform a line check, and pack it.


How about this one?
6/22/1997 Umatilla, FL MAL? 42 7500 Y?/Y
Description: At the end of a normal tandem skydiver, the student pulled the ripcord at about 5500 feet. The left main riser broke, which in turn activated the reserve static line lanyard (RSL). The RSL immediately pulled the reserve ripcord cables while the right-hand main riser was still attached. The reserve pilot chute and free-bag cleared, but the reserve canopy entangled with the spinning main. The main was then cut away, but failed to clear the reserve. The student survived the landing, the JM did not. The Master 425 main was equipped Dacron with suspension lines. The type VII risers were manufactured in May 1996 and had the new heavy duty 3-rings. The rings were properly positioned during drogue fall, and appeared normal. The type VII webbing broke about 1" above the lower end; the type IV holding the small ring broke just below the grommet. Neither of the two rings from the left riser were recovered, nor was the cutaway handle or the reserve ripcord. All equipment was less than three years old and in good condition. Instructor and student total weight was about 380 pounds.
Lessons:Perhaps a defective riser?

Heres another
Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
7/12/2000 Elsinore, CA DMAL 27 Y/Y
Description: The Navy was at Elsinore training Seals; they had their own instructors and their own equipment. At the time of this report, no detailed analysis of the rig has yet been made. This report is based on preliminary examinations and eyewitness accounts. The student ( training under the Navy's equivalent of AFF) deployed his main normally at around 4500 feet. During the main deployment the RSL somehow deployed his reserve which then entangled in the main. Someone supposedly had seen that his main was square and apparently flyable while the reserve was completely fouled and entangled in his main lines. No one directly witnessed the incident while the student was between 4000 and 2500 feet. Somewhere during that interval the student apparently cutaway his main which then collapsed and remained entangled with his fouled reserve. It was believed that if he had not cutaway, he may have been able to land relatively safely on his main. The reserve was apparently NOT deployed by his CYPRES: the preliminary examination revealed a kink in the reserve ripcord where the RSL must have pulled against it while it was still under tension from the closing loop. As soon as the rig is released by the coroner more detailed examinations are going to happen by the DZO, the USPA, the rig manufacturer and the Navy. It is unknown at this time what pulled the RSL, it may have been improperly routed and was pulled on line stretch, or it may have been caught by a toggle. It is also unknown if this type of malfunction is particular to this type of rig or is an industry-wide concern. The Navy has stood down their training and grounded all of their equipment until more is known about the true cause of the incident.
Lessons:Dual canopy out malfunctions are nasty. Discuss appropriate procedures with a local instructor. Cutting away from an inflated main when the reserve fouled is not a recommended course of action.

One that can show the drawbacks of an RSL.
Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
9/22/2001 Picton, Australia DMAL 34 360 ?/Y
Description: After a camera jump, this jumper experienced spinning line twists on his Stilleto 135. He was unable to clear them and cutaway at perhaps 1800'. His reserve (an Airforce 120) opened (via RSL, though reserve handle was also pulled roughly simultaneously) slider-up with line twists, and he impacted in a spin still trying to kick out of the twists. The reserve was very highly loaded, at 1.7 lb/ft^2. Video review of the incident shows that the deceased may have been kicking the wrong direction to get the reserve to untwist, and was not observed to be pulling the risers apart to aid the untwisting.
Lessons:There is some reason to believe that pausing briefly after cutting away from a seriously spinning malfunction can aid in reserve deployment. However, pausing also eats up valuable altitude, which is also an increased risk. An RSL removes your choice in this matter, but does insure a rapid deployment after a low cutaway. Note that this forum doesn't post the incidents where someone cutaway low, and their RSL saves them.

Another one.
9/30/2001 Opelika, AL DMAL 48 308 Y/Y
Description: Due to a hard opening, this jumper broke one of the D lines on his canopy, a 230 Rascal. it went into a spin, so he cut it away. The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm. One report indicates the reserve lines also entangled with his neck. The reserve never cleared the freebag. He was found dead at the scene. A second report from someone involved with the investigation reports that the RSL had nothing to do with it; I await further details.
Lessons:RSL's are a mixed blessing. For novice jumpers, they provide insurance against failure to pull the reserve after a cutaway, a relatively frequent occurrence in the pre-CYPRES past. This incident may illustrate the downside of an RSL.

They have saved, but they have also killed.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[peckerhead 0]

Last fall a good buddy of mine broke a mini riser on his javelin after a hard opening. Fortunately for him the side that broke was not the RSL side. I think several people at the DZ disconected their RSL's that day.

About two years ago Another friend of mine had a premature opening on the step of a 182. The main got tangled up on the step and eventually the tail. Fortunately he did not have an RSL so he was able to cut away and clear the aircraft before pulling the reserve. All the other jumpers including the pilot were able to exit the doomed aircraft as well. An RSL would have likely killed this jumper and possibly everyone else on board.