kelpdiver 2 #26 June 15, 2005 Quote If lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them. Yes, you can find yourself backing up in higher winds under a lightly loaded canopy. Don't downsize so you can jump in higher winds - backing up isn't the only danger involved in jumping in winds. Instead, choose not to jump in windy conditions. Even when the winds aren't that high, the turbulence can still be uncomfortable. 3pm Sat at Davis, I had yet another one of those rides, though not as bad as the ones at Elsinore last week (with zero ground wind). I've never backed up (tri 220), but definitely was losing confidence in the canopy. It was much nicer later in the day. I didn't have this experience last summer on bigger or smaller canopies (spectre 210), so maybe it's this tri. If it continues, I may move onto the next one sooner than I otherwise planned. Then it's the 210 versus 190 question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Candy 0 #27 June 15, 2005 QuoteIf lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them.*** Good Point. Yes, you can find yourself backing up in higher winds under a lightly loaded canopy. Don't downsize so you can jump in higher winds - backing up isn't the only danger involved in jumping in winds. Instead, choose not to jump in windy conditions. I am careful not to jump in windy conditions, I've missed out on a few weekends of jumping here lately because of the winds. I've been told that a lightly loaded canopy could be more susceptible to collapse, even in light winds. Either way I will talk to my coach about this, I wasn't planning on doing anything until I was able to talk to a coach, take a course and improve my skills. I think one of the reasons I really thought about downsizing was so I might be able to find a smaller container to fit my body better. Any ideas on that? Thanks for your input. Candy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,577 #28 June 15, 2005 Turbulence isn't a good reason to downsize. It's a good reason to not jump. Turbulence is an unpredictable set of wind conditions that can affect the stability of your canopy. With less canopy, an impact to stability would be a bigger, faster problem. I have several hundred jumps on mains at less than 1:1. The main problem I ever had was that in conditions that were probably too windy for jumping, I had to be REALLY quick to collapse my canopy or I'd fall down and be dragged a couple of feet. I just don't buy the "dangerous" thing. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mktoson 0 #29 June 15, 2005 QuoteYou and I might be in an unique club... I only have 140ish jumps right now, and have no desire to downsize (much) either... No you're not in a unique club. I think that you're under the false impression that the majority of new jumpers are downsizing too quickly. I just don't see this as the case. When looked at new jumpers as a whole these 'XX jump wonders' don't make the majority. You may be getting this impression b/c the only ones we talk about are the few who downsize fast and end up femuring themselves. We don't talk about the majority of new canopy pilots that are more conservative and aren't involved in incidents. So far, this is the oldest I've ever been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpRu 14 #30 June 15, 2005 >I've been told that a lightly loaded canopy could be >more susceptible to collapse, even in light winds. yes, but they will reinflate much nicer then small ellipticals. My saber WL 1.2 folded in half couple years ago at 100-200 ft and reinflate just before impact. If same thing would happen on anything else I would probably break something. Personally I think airlocks is the answer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larsrulz 0 #31 June 15, 2005 QuotePersonally I think airlocks is the answer! That'll certainly keep people from jumping in hight winds that they shouldn't. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpRu 14 #32 June 15, 2005 That is THE BEST thing to do, but if you want to be stupid ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #33 June 15, 2005 QuoteI think one of the reasons I really thought about downsizing was so I might be able to find a smaller container to fit my body better. Any ideas on that? Perhaps an alternative to downsizing would be to order a Javelin Oddessey or a Wings container. Both have cut-in laterals that will help a larger container fit a smaller body better. chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #34 June 15, 2005 Wendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #35 June 15, 2005 QuoteI have several hundred jumps on mains at less than 1:1. [sarcasm] And you actually survived that extreme wingloading to tell the tell? Amazing! Better start loading your wing at 2.5:1 before your luck runs out at such dangerously low loadings! Call me and I'll make you a great deal on a Velo79 and a couple weight belts, so you can jump safely.[/sarcasm] For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,577 #36 June 15, 2005 It could be just some heat off of tarmac. No big deal if that's the case. All I'm saying is that in a reasonable amount of experience on lightly-loaded squares I've never been scared by turbulence. That doesn't mean it can't happen, and it doesn't mean you didn't experience. But it gives you more context to place your experience into. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #37 June 15, 2005 QuoteEven when the winds aren't that high, the turbulence can still be uncomfortable. Every canopy is susceptible to turbulence. If you think the higher loaded small canopies don't feel it, you're wrong. In fact if something drastic happens (like a partial collapse) the results are usually quite ugly on higher loadings. About 2 years ago I had my 96 fold up at 2000 feet (weird turbulence), I was on my back spinning in no time. Had that happened at 800 feet I'd have been in a world of shit. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #38 June 15, 2005 Quotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #39 June 15, 2005 QuoteWendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #40 June 16, 2005 Quote Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Relatively speaking, yes. Elsinore is vaguely in the category of high desert - 1500agl - and the temp drops at night, then gets rather warm in the sun. It also has the mid sized hills (few hundred to few thousand feet) on both ends, and the large lake 1 mile away that should do funky things. Skydance probably has a 20-30F shift and lots of different crop cover on the ground, but is in a total flat zone. Hollister's much easier to read - the only bump in the air I keep seeing is when I cross a road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skinnyshrek 0 #41 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving. At his experience i think thats the best option right now. later on get to experience the fun of canopies. Right now mate do exactly that. Use your canopy to get safely to the ground!http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genoyamamoto 0 #42 June 16, 2005 Quote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? Quote I honestly dont see it. Some desire to 'push the envelope'? Increasing the odds of killing myself isn't 'cool' in my book, its just plain dumb. So why'd you downsize from your monster student main? Welcome to the "pushthenvelopetryingtokillmyselfisn'tcooljustplaindumb" club. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #43 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them. This cannot be stressed enough. I'm sick and tired of the BULLSHIT info being given to people out there (normally light, small woman) that they're in danger cause they're 'underloading' their canopy. Lisa summed it up - if you have to downsize to jump in winds you want to jump in, maybe you should reconsider the jump anyway. Seek new coaches if someone tries to feed you this line of crap. Blues, Ian However, I do believe that I actually am "underloading" my canopy, and am considering that I will probably downsize to a 190 just to get my wingloading to atleast 1:1, ... I believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like.. I feel that turbulent conditions could add to the danger of a lighter wingloading and a smaller canopy should help me with that. However I would love to hear some other thoughts on this... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #44 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? The full quote was "Granted, it means a smaller pack volume and a smaller rig, but hell - I just bought this one - two sizes smaller and i'd need a new container." and it meant he just bought his pilot 188, if he goes down 2 sizes he'd have to buy a new container and his first one was expensive enough. No contradiction. The only time I get jelous of the guys with smaller canopies is when I get back to the packing area and it's full, because they got down before me and took up all the space. But since I'm going birdman now, I'm gonna be last down no matter what I fly anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #45 June 16, 2005 QuoteI believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like. Yes, your loading could be a reason that your end cells don't inflate by themselves. I got really used to pumping them open on every jump on my first canopy (loaded at about .8). Didn't think it was that much of a big deal. I also dislike turbulence, which is why I don't jump a whole lot when visiting Perris in the summer. If you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. There will always be another day to skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #46 June 16, 2005 Actually, that would mean that I dont get to jump really EVER out here.. Clouds burn off and turbulance starts, ... I could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me... Now if I see a ton of dust devils flying around, or students go on hold, I do ground myself. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #47 June 16, 2005 QuoteI could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me. There's plenty of folks that can't jump all winter long due to weather. They manage to survive not jumping as much as they'd like to, and if they feel they have to get some jumps in, they travel to better weather. Justify it all you'd like, but if you're going to insist on jumping in turbulent conditions for whatever reason, don't whine about bouncing around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #48 June 16, 2005 QuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #49 June 16, 2005 Nate, Is Skydive SD experiencing the same kind of wind/turbulences that Perris does in summer? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #50 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. If you have any doubt, asking people who just landed is also a good idea. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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wmw999 2,577 #28 June 15, 2005 Turbulence isn't a good reason to downsize. It's a good reason to not jump. Turbulence is an unpredictable set of wind conditions that can affect the stability of your canopy. With less canopy, an impact to stability would be a bigger, faster problem. I have several hundred jumps on mains at less than 1:1. The main problem I ever had was that in conditions that were probably too windy for jumping, I had to be REALLY quick to collapse my canopy or I'd fall down and be dragged a couple of feet. I just don't buy the "dangerous" thing. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mktoson 0 #29 June 15, 2005 QuoteYou and I might be in an unique club... I only have 140ish jumps right now, and have no desire to downsize (much) either... No you're not in a unique club. I think that you're under the false impression that the majority of new jumpers are downsizing too quickly. I just don't see this as the case. When looked at new jumpers as a whole these 'XX jump wonders' don't make the majority. You may be getting this impression b/c the only ones we talk about are the few who downsize fast and end up femuring themselves. We don't talk about the majority of new canopy pilots that are more conservative and aren't involved in incidents. So far, this is the oldest I've ever been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpRu 14 #30 June 15, 2005 >I've been told that a lightly loaded canopy could be >more susceptible to collapse, even in light winds. yes, but they will reinflate much nicer then small ellipticals. My saber WL 1.2 folded in half couple years ago at 100-200 ft and reinflate just before impact. If same thing would happen on anything else I would probably break something. Personally I think airlocks is the answer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larsrulz 0 #31 June 15, 2005 QuotePersonally I think airlocks is the answer! That'll certainly keep people from jumping in hight winds that they shouldn't. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpRu 14 #32 June 15, 2005 That is THE BEST thing to do, but if you want to be stupid ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #33 June 15, 2005 QuoteI think one of the reasons I really thought about downsizing was so I might be able to find a smaller container to fit my body better. Any ideas on that? Perhaps an alternative to downsizing would be to order a Javelin Oddessey or a Wings container. Both have cut-in laterals that will help a larger container fit a smaller body better. chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #34 June 15, 2005 Wendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #35 June 15, 2005 QuoteI have several hundred jumps on mains at less than 1:1. [sarcasm] And you actually survived that extreme wingloading to tell the tell? Amazing! Better start loading your wing at 2.5:1 before your luck runs out at such dangerously low loadings! Call me and I'll make you a great deal on a Velo79 and a couple weight belts, so you can jump safely.[/sarcasm] For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,577 #36 June 15, 2005 It could be just some heat off of tarmac. No big deal if that's the case. All I'm saying is that in a reasonable amount of experience on lightly-loaded squares I've never been scared by turbulence. That doesn't mean it can't happen, and it doesn't mean you didn't experience. But it gives you more context to place your experience into. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #37 June 15, 2005 QuoteEven when the winds aren't that high, the turbulence can still be uncomfortable. Every canopy is susceptible to turbulence. If you think the higher loaded small canopies don't feel it, you're wrong. In fact if something drastic happens (like a partial collapse) the results are usually quite ugly on higher loadings. About 2 years ago I had my 96 fold up at 2000 feet (weird turbulence), I was on my back spinning in no time. Had that happened at 800 feet I'd have been in a world of shit. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #38 June 15, 2005 Quotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #39 June 15, 2005 QuoteWendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #40 June 16, 2005 Quote Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Relatively speaking, yes. Elsinore is vaguely in the category of high desert - 1500agl - and the temp drops at night, then gets rather warm in the sun. It also has the mid sized hills (few hundred to few thousand feet) on both ends, and the large lake 1 mile away that should do funky things. Skydance probably has a 20-30F shift and lots of different crop cover on the ground, but is in a total flat zone. Hollister's much easier to read - the only bump in the air I keep seeing is when I cross a road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skinnyshrek 0 #41 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving. At his experience i think thats the best option right now. later on get to experience the fun of canopies. Right now mate do exactly that. Use your canopy to get safely to the ground!http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genoyamamoto 0 #42 June 16, 2005 Quote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? Quote I honestly dont see it. Some desire to 'push the envelope'? Increasing the odds of killing myself isn't 'cool' in my book, its just plain dumb. So why'd you downsize from your monster student main? Welcome to the "pushthenvelopetryingtokillmyselfisn'tcooljustplaindumb" club. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #43 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them. This cannot be stressed enough. I'm sick and tired of the BULLSHIT info being given to people out there (normally light, small woman) that they're in danger cause they're 'underloading' their canopy. Lisa summed it up - if you have to downsize to jump in winds you want to jump in, maybe you should reconsider the jump anyway. Seek new coaches if someone tries to feed you this line of crap. Blues, Ian However, I do believe that I actually am "underloading" my canopy, and am considering that I will probably downsize to a 190 just to get my wingloading to atleast 1:1, ... I believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like.. I feel that turbulent conditions could add to the danger of a lighter wingloading and a smaller canopy should help me with that. However I would love to hear some other thoughts on this... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #44 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? The full quote was "Granted, it means a smaller pack volume and a smaller rig, but hell - I just bought this one - two sizes smaller and i'd need a new container." and it meant he just bought his pilot 188, if he goes down 2 sizes he'd have to buy a new container and his first one was expensive enough. No contradiction. The only time I get jelous of the guys with smaller canopies is when I get back to the packing area and it's full, because they got down before me and took up all the space. But since I'm going birdman now, I'm gonna be last down no matter what I fly anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #45 June 16, 2005 QuoteI believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like. Yes, your loading could be a reason that your end cells don't inflate by themselves. I got really used to pumping them open on every jump on my first canopy (loaded at about .8). Didn't think it was that much of a big deal. I also dislike turbulence, which is why I don't jump a whole lot when visiting Perris in the summer. If you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. There will always be another day to skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #46 June 16, 2005 Actually, that would mean that I dont get to jump really EVER out here.. Clouds burn off and turbulance starts, ... I could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me... Now if I see a ton of dust devils flying around, or students go on hold, I do ground myself. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #47 June 16, 2005 QuoteI could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me. There's plenty of folks that can't jump all winter long due to weather. They manage to survive not jumping as much as they'd like to, and if they feel they have to get some jumps in, they travel to better weather. Justify it all you'd like, but if you're going to insist on jumping in turbulent conditions for whatever reason, don't whine about bouncing around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #48 June 16, 2005 QuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #49 June 16, 2005 Nate, Is Skydive SD experiencing the same kind of wind/turbulences that Perris does in summer? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #50 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. If you have any doubt, asking people who just landed is also a good idea. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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JumpRu 14 #30 June 15, 2005 >I've been told that a lightly loaded canopy could be >more susceptible to collapse, even in light winds. yes, but they will reinflate much nicer then small ellipticals. My saber WL 1.2 folded in half couple years ago at 100-200 ft and reinflate just before impact. If same thing would happen on anything else I would probably break something. Personally I think airlocks is the answer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #31 June 15, 2005 QuotePersonally I think airlocks is the answer! That'll certainly keep people from jumping in hight winds that they shouldn't. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpRu 14 #32 June 15, 2005 That is THE BEST thing to do, but if you want to be stupid ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #33 June 15, 2005 QuoteI think one of the reasons I really thought about downsizing was so I might be able to find a smaller container to fit my body better. Any ideas on that? Perhaps an alternative to downsizing would be to order a Javelin Oddessey or a Wings container. Both have cut-in laterals that will help a larger container fit a smaller body better. chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 June 15, 2005 Wendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #35 June 15, 2005 QuoteI have several hundred jumps on mains at less than 1:1. [sarcasm] And you actually survived that extreme wingloading to tell the tell? Amazing! Better start loading your wing at 2.5:1 before your luck runs out at such dangerously low loadings! Call me and I'll make you a great deal on a Velo79 and a couple weight belts, so you can jump safely.[/sarcasm] For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,577 #36 June 15, 2005 It could be just some heat off of tarmac. No big deal if that's the case. All I'm saying is that in a reasonable amount of experience on lightly-loaded squares I've never been scared by turbulence. That doesn't mean it can't happen, and it doesn't mean you didn't experience. But it gives you more context to place your experience into. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #37 June 15, 2005 QuoteEven when the winds aren't that high, the turbulence can still be uncomfortable. Every canopy is susceptible to turbulence. If you think the higher loaded small canopies don't feel it, you're wrong. In fact if something drastic happens (like a partial collapse) the results are usually quite ugly on higher loadings. About 2 years ago I had my 96 fold up at 2000 feet (weird turbulence), I was on my back spinning in no time. Had that happened at 800 feet I'd have been in a world of shit. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #38 June 15, 2005 Quotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #39 June 15, 2005 QuoteWendy - on 3 of these jumps in question, there was 0 wind on the ground. The one on Saturday was well under 10. And no one else seemed bothered. So points to: it's the canopy, the w/l, or me getting a new baseline for 'normal.' Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #40 June 16, 2005 Quote Was it cold in the morning then it really heated up in the afternoon? That kind of weather can produce turbulance, especially dust devils. Relatively speaking, yes. Elsinore is vaguely in the category of high desert - 1500agl - and the temp drops at night, then gets rather warm in the sun. It also has the mid sized hills (few hundred to few thousand feet) on both ends, and the large lake 1 mile away that should do funky things. Skydance probably has a 20-30F shift and lots of different crop cover on the ground, but is in a total flat zone. Hollister's much easier to read - the only bump in the air I keep seeing is when I cross a road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #41 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuotethe canopy is a method of delivering me to the ground safely and not a lot more. Then you're ignoring 1/2 of skydiving. At his experience i think thats the best option right now. later on get to experience the fun of canopies. Right now mate do exactly that. Use your canopy to get safely to the ground!http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #42 June 16, 2005 Quote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? Quote I honestly dont see it. Some desire to 'push the envelope'? Increasing the odds of killing myself isn't 'cool' in my book, its just plain dumb. So why'd you downsize from your monster student main? Welcome to the "pushthenvelopetryingtokillmyselfisn'tcooljustplaindumb" club. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #43 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf lightly loaded canopies were so dangerous we wouldn't put first jump students under them. This cannot be stressed enough. I'm sick and tired of the BULLSHIT info being given to people out there (normally light, small woman) that they're in danger cause they're 'underloading' their canopy. Lisa summed it up - if you have to downsize to jump in winds you want to jump in, maybe you should reconsider the jump anyway. Seek new coaches if someone tries to feed you this line of crap. Blues, Ian However, I do believe that I actually am "underloading" my canopy, and am considering that I will probably downsize to a 190 just to get my wingloading to atleast 1:1, ... I believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like.. I feel that turbulent conditions could add to the danger of a lighter wingloading and a smaller canopy should help me with that. However I would love to hear some other thoughts on this... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #44 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuote Am I in the minority for having no desire whatsoever to rush downsizing? What IS the rush? . . . I just bought this one - two sizes smaller ... am i the only one that sees a contradiction here? The full quote was "Granted, it means a smaller pack volume and a smaller rig, but hell - I just bought this one - two sizes smaller and i'd need a new container." and it meant he just bought his pilot 188, if he goes down 2 sizes he'd have to buy a new container and his first one was expensive enough. No contradiction. The only time I get jelous of the guys with smaller canopies is when I get back to the packing area and it's full, because they got down before me and took up all the space. But since I'm going birdman now, I'm gonna be last down no matter what I fly anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #45 June 16, 2005 QuoteI believe that it is because I underload that many times it takes effort from me to get my end cells to inflate, it also does not help with the effect that turbulent air has on my flight (which we have alot of out here it seems), somtimes I get tossed around quite a bit more than I'd like. Yes, your loading could be a reason that your end cells don't inflate by themselves. I got really used to pumping them open on every jump on my first canopy (loaded at about .8). Didn't think it was that much of a big deal. I also dislike turbulence, which is why I don't jump a whole lot when visiting Perris in the summer. If you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. There will always be another day to skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #46 June 16, 2005 Actually, that would mean that I dont get to jump really EVER out here.. Clouds burn off and turbulance starts, ... I could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me... Now if I see a ton of dust devils flying around, or students go on hold, I do ground myself. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #47 June 16, 2005 QuoteI could pretty much just jump winters if I let that stop me. There's plenty of folks that can't jump all winter long due to weather. They manage to survive not jumping as much as they'd like to, and if they feel they have to get some jumps in, they travel to better weather. Justify it all you'd like, but if you're going to insist on jumping in turbulent conditions for whatever reason, don't whine about bouncing around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #48 June 16, 2005 QuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #49 June 16, 2005 Nate, Is Skydive SD experiencing the same kind of wind/turbulences that Perris does in summer? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #50 June 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you're bouncing around in turbulence, imho the best and safest choice to make is to stop jumping until the air has settled down - even if that means you won't be able to jump as many times as you want to that day. I've done that. Saturday I took my sweet time after the first one, relaxing, then packing, then relaxing a bit more. And the air was nice and calm. But how do you accurately make that call? Do you check with people landing, watching them up in the sky (I tried that) or use your knowledge of the given place? What's your strategy? Dust devils are easy to see at Perris with all the dust. A bit harder at Skydance, though I know I've seen at least a couple. If you have any doubt, asking people who just landed is also a good idea. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
