Ever fell like the biggest F'up in the sky?

[BlindBrick 0]

I was demoing a canopy today and the freefall for the most part went very well. Upon opening the canopy opened into a turn, with the outboard cells on the left side not inflating. It then preceeded to began to spin. I visually verified that I didn't have a brake fire. I tried to counter the turn with a weight shift, no dice. I began pumping the risers trying to get the cells to inflate, no dice. Finally I try to counter the turn with riser input, but again no affect. At this point the spin has begun to get violent and I can tell I've lost a fair bit of altitude, so I excute my EP's. That made my fifth cutaway in 162 jumps.

Now I am in the very weird position where I felt like I did things right, yet am a f'up. Don't get me wrong, I don't do this for attention. I also don't do it for the thrill. I do my own rigging, and in all honesty, I hate my rig more than any a customer's ever brought me. The gear is fine, but it's a large reserve that's rated as a very tight fit for my container. Repacking it is always educational, but never enjoyable, so it's definitely not worth any thrill.

I just want to scream. I don't want to be some famous skydiver, reknowed for their mad rw or swooping skills. I just want it to be when my name is mentioned peopel say "Yeah, he's a good, safe jumper." Since I've got eye surgery and gear that is tailored to my needs, I feel that I've made tremendous progress. But then, crap like this happens and it feels like I am just beating my head against the wall.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[DanglesOZQld 0]

Been there done that (in part!) , hence the nickname!!!

Don't worry dude - if you are careful and try to learn from others and/or keep an ear open willing to learn then people will see the real skydiving "you."

Never be afraid to criticize yourself but not to the extent that it gets you down.

BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[docjohn 0]

You cutaway from a mal. Why does that make you a f'up? You did good.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[Tonto 1]

Well, you may be being a little hard on yourself... but here's where I think you could do better.

1. Demo gear + freefall.

If this was simple 5 secs out the door, then I'm out of line, but if this was a long delay or a formation or freefly skydive, then you're stacking up a bunch of variables you can't control. If you were reaching your hard deck - you never opened high enough on a demo canopy - in my opinion. One task at a time.

2. Your awareness of the event is really high, and I'm not sure of the time frame involved, but with visual verification of brakes, harness shift, riser input etc, I'm wondering why you never just unstowed the brakes and flew it! Plenty escalation time, right?

Having said that - I have 18 chops, and some people consider me to be a "good, safe jumper" so it's all about the numbers from here on.

You're OK. You did good, but from someone who has had one reserve malfunction - blind faith in my reserve is a thing of the past.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[riggerrob 643]

I am wondering why you did not try to stop the spin by pulling a rear riser.
... or how about trying to inflate the collapsed end cells by pulling down on both toggles at the same time?

[chutem 0]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but do your rigging customers know you have 5 cutaways in 162 jumps? This might make me look for a new rigger. Why do you think you have this many mals in so few jumps? What measures have you taken to try to prevent this in the future? I guess if you go with the odds it will be a long time till your "due" for another one.
James

[Newbie 0]

why would the number of cutaways he has had matter to those he has packed reserves for? If anything, it shows he has packed his reserve well as it keeps working.

5 cutaways in 162 does sound like a lot - would you mind listing what have been the causes of those - i'm just curious.

PS well done on doing a good job. I wouldn't say you are a f'up, you had something that wasn't flying, you tried your best to get it to fly, it wouldn't, you exectuted good EP's and you walked away from it all - nice work

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[chutem 0]

5 chops in 162 jumps makes me wonder about his "attention to detail" in a sport that will kill you. 5 chops in 162 jumps may just be bad luck. It just does not give me the "warm fuzzy" I'm looking for in a rigger. What do the rest of you think, 5 chops in 162 jumps would that bother you if it was your rigger?
If I knew him personally it might not bother me as much because I would know what type of person I was dealing with.
James

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

1. Demo gear + freefall.

If this was simple 5 secs out the door, then I'm out of line, but if this was a long delay or a formation or freefly skydive, then you're stacking up a bunch of variables you can't control.

It was a freefall, but it wasn't my first jump on the canopy. i'd already done some hop and pops to familarize myself with it.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[tfelber 0]

Quote

5 chops in 162 jumps makes me wonder...

He may just be overly sensitive to the canopy not being "Perfect". I don't think it has anything to do with sloppiness. But I haven't seen him pack.

Blind, have someone watch you pack and give you feedback.

My first cutaway probably would have opened if I would have given it a little more time, but at the time, 60 jumps, it wasn't opening as expected and I felt like I was low, so I did what I thought was correct and landed my reserve. Nothing wrong with that!

I have since had canopies snivel for 1800 feet and just watched my altitude and every thing has been fine. It's just another level of awareness.

[Tonto 1]

Ah. My bad.

Reading some of the replies it looks as though your honesty has put you in the view of some people with as many jumps as you but less experience. (Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want..)

There are many, many people who have spent the rest of their lives trying to solve the problem they had. Keep doing what it takes to survive - and never second guess your desision to chop. You made it for a good reason.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[airtwardo 7]

I began pumping the risers trying to get the cells to inflate, no dice. Finally I try to counter the turn with riser input,

***

Did you release the brakes?

By 'pumping the risers' how far down did you pull them? Did you hold them down for a few seconds or just pop them up & down rapidly?

When "I" have an end cell closure of the type you seem to be describing, I first grab the rear risers as high up as I can get and pull the down as far as possible...holding them there to stall the canopy out and allow the cells to pop back into shape.


If that doesn't work...I the pop the brakes and try to rapidly pump them through the entire control range...making the canopy surge & stall.

If it still won't open....Plan "B"

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

5 cutaways in 162 does sound like a lot - would you mind listing what have been the causes of those - i'm just curious.

#1: As a student four years ago, what the rigger told me appeared to be a tension knot. About two seconds into the flare, the canopy would make a radical dive to the left. After having been chastised a few weeks before for flying home something that should have been chopped, I was't going to get in trouble again.

#2&3#(Three years ago): Definitely my bad. When I got into this sport I had really bad eyes. I could read an analog alti with about a 1,000 ft margin of error. I was jumping a rig with an FXC 12000. Both of these were two out situations where I deployed within the "commit" window of the FXC. So when I flew my canopy down to the activation altitude, they dutifuly fired.

#4(January 05), 8th jump on my first high performance canopy. Broken brake line on opening. I did not feel comfortable enough under that canopy, under that WL, to attempt a rear riser landing.

35: The spinner this weekend. Someone asked about using risers to cancel the spin. I tried that and it didn't work. Someone else asked why I didn't use toggles to inflate the end cells. At my DZ, we are taught to pump the risers to do this. Once I could see that risers and weight shift was not working, I considered toggles. However, at this point the spin had really built up and I was losing altitude fast. I'm looking up at the canopy and I realize that I am seeing the ground "above" it, and it looks way bigger than normal. At that point, I felt I could try the toggles, but if they didn't work then I would be dangerously low. So, I executed my EP's.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[chutem 0]

So as a general statement you would have no problem useing a rigger with 5 chops in his 162 jumps? I guess he didn't say that the cutaways were on his own packjobs, and you may have a point about him chopping stuff that may have opened or that he could have landed. I would need alot more info to be comfortable with this.
James

[airtwardo 7]

There are many, many people who have spent the rest of their lives trying to solve the problem they had. Keep doing what it takes to survive - and never second guess your desision to chop. You made it for a good reason.

***

Yeah...What Tonto said!


And to add~
Don't feel like a Fuck Up for saving your oun life!

Even MORE SO if it's YOUR repacks that you're jumping!


DO NOT EVER get into the mind set that might make you even THINK about hesitating to initiate your EP!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

Someone else why I didn't use toggles to inflate the end cells. At my DZ, we are taught to pump the risers to do this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Were you taught that as a 'student' using a non-HP Canopy?

I'm not trying to tell you what to do...seek that advise from those there,
that know you & the canopy.

But pulling down the risers as opposed to the toggles effects different parts of the canopy
and the way it will perform in this type of a situation.


******************************************

Once I could see that risers and weight shift was not working, I considered toggles. However, at this point the spin had really built up and I was losing altitude fast. I'm looking up at the canopy and I realize that I am seeing the ground "above" it, and it looks way bigger than normal.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again...you did the right thing, don't waste time & energy questioning yourself!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[chutem 0]

That list really helped my confidence level in you. Looks like the only one that might possibly have been a packing problem (your packing) was the last and who knows if that was it. I appologise for questioning your attention to detail.
James

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

I guess he didn't say that the cutaways were on his own packjobs

The last two were mine. And I don't advertise them(or any of my saves) as a way to build my rep as a rigger. I don't rig to be a hero, I do it to give something back to the sport which has given me so much. If someone asks me about saves, I instead point out the other people who've used reserves I've packed. But saves are defintiely not something I advertise.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

I appologise for questioning your attention to detail.
James

No problem. You were basically just voicing a concern I had with myself. I just get so fustrated because it seems even with all the extra effort to do things right, I am still having way more problems than average.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[chutem 0]

Again, sorry for questioning your attention to detail. I type a little slow (think that way to) so some of the last few replys are out of order with some of the posts.
James

[hookitt 1]

Here’s a tidbit that’s being left out. Many fully inflated canopies will continue to spin with the brakes set. Closed end cells on one side may, or may not, exacerbate the problem.

If you wish to try this, fly the canopy straight with the brakes set then grab a rear riser to induce a turn. After it starts to spiral, let the riser up. Chances are the canopy will continue until you release the brakes. It's the same thing that happens during spiraling line twists.

I would suggest countering quickly with the risers then ditching them for toggles. The only reason I don't grab toggles right away is to collapse the slider and pull it down. If that step isn't needed the toggles would be released right away.

The quickest way to gain control of a canopy is to just grab the toggles. If that fails, well, you know the rest.

Since you had already gone past the point of no return, there was no choice but to release the main. I've cutaway from spiraling line twists, so I know it gets intense rather quickly. It's the same thing that happened to you, only with line twists.

I agree that using risers to inflate end cells is ok but if the canopy is spiraling and there are no line twists... grab the toggles right away. Most likely a reserve repack won't be necessary.

No harm done and you're still here so don't worry about it. It only cost you time for the repack and some frustration.

Hope that helps.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[bmcd308 0]

My only cutaway was from a similar situation. Since I was very lightly loaded, I consider it a cutaway from a "turning malfunction" out of deference to those who have experienced a legitimate spinning malfunction. The short story is this: I was (and you were) under a canopy you did not believe you could land safely. After that, there is only one solution - replace it with a different one.

BMcD...

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www.jumpelvis.com

[JumpRu 14]

how you can visually verify that you don't have break fire?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

how you can visually verify that you don't have break fire?

By looking at the toggles? *shrug*

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JumpRu 14]

your toggls will be at the end of your risers near guide rings no matter what. In other words if one of your breaks fired toggle itself will be at the same position.