Straddle seats in caravan

[DanglesOZQld 0]

Just wondering if there are any people out there who have straddle seats in a Cessna Caravan or grand caravan and if so could they possible pm me some pics. Just curious ;)

BSBD!! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[Icon134 0]

I saw them in a plane at the Dublin Boogie... I don't know where it was from though.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[AggieDave 6]

We have straddle seats in our grand caravan. Comfy...I'll see what I can do about the pics.

They're basically foam strips glued on top of each other to seat heigh, the same foam as used in "fun noodles" and such, although a bit stronger/stiffer.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Dazzle 0]

Can you describe? 2 rows? How many people do you put in the plane?

We just sit on the floor in ours, 16 people, 3 abreast near the pilot then 2 abreast

[larsrulz 0]

We have straddle benches that are essentially plywood covered in carpet. We have a short caravan, so we get 4 people on the bench behind the pilot, 5 behind the copilot, 3 on the floor (2 right by the door and 1 on the other side) and then 2 people on the ledge behind the door. We can put a 15th if someone sits in the co-pilot seat. We used to get 16-17 in our grand caravan, as the benches were longer, but due to CG issues we couldn't put 2 on the ledge behind the door.

The benches make it much easier for the TIs to hook up, that's for sure!

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Beerlight 0]

Do those benches require an STC?

[riggerrob 643]

We had straddle benches in our old Beech 18 and currently have them in our King Air.
They make it far easier for TIs to tighten up.
They are merely styrofoam blocks (14" X 16" X whatever length you want) wrapped in upholstery vinyl.

[AggieDave 6]

Right, 2 rows. The row on the door side is shorter then the other, due to the door. On the benches we've put 17 people, with 3 people on the floor. Still well within the listed weight for the AC. On the floor, though, those folks were sitting at the end of the benches (not fully in the back of the plane), no one was in the middle between the benches. For seatbelts, they just go through your harness.

All in all very comfy, as a TI I really really really prefer staddle benches, makes life so much easier and comfortable (as I'm more then sure you know).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[icarusfx99 0]

Quote

They make it far easier for TIs to tighten up.
They are merely styrofoam blocks (14" X 16" X whatever length you want) wrapped in upholstery vinyl.

We have the same set up. Two upholstered styrofoam blocks. We put 5 on each side (could probably fit a 6th if need be), the rest sits on the floor.

Peter

[skydived19006 4]

I wouldn't do this if I thought he would care, but here's a post form another forum by Tim Bucher.

I have been using straddle benches since 1997 when I got my first Caravan. Since then, I have made sets for 5 different Caravans and for 6 different Otters. I only own one Super Otter now and have had the same benches in it since 2001. The easiest way to make a bench seat is to go to a commercial foam products supplier and buy a block of high density styrofoam. The stock size is 4 ft x 8 ft x 12 inches. This needs to be cut into 12 inch sections which makes your bench seat 12 inch x 12 inch x 8 ft. long. I have always ordered the blocks cut for me, because I could not figure out a good way to accurately cut it myself. They then need to be completely wrapped in an approved carpet or fabric. Approved means aircraft grade or FAA burn tested. We also put foam padding on one side as the styrofoam is actually quite hard and uncomfortable to sit on, yet it will still deteriorate from butt imprints over time. Installing some padding solves both problems. The entire covering is glued on,which requires glue that will not dissolve the styrofoam, and the ends are overlapped and tuck fitted like regular upholstery or carpet is done. On the forward outboard end, we have hand tacked a piece of tubular nylon to the vertical corner edge of the carpet and have a metal snap fitting at the other end to secure the bench in place. This was suggested by an FAA inspector and we did it even though the benches are heavy enough that they just do not move much. They might make it to the door in a Caravan, but I can not see it happening in an Otter. Regardless, they definitely will not leave if there is a lanyard attaching them. We also have a full length/width floor pad made of a high density closed cell foam which is wrapped in the same approved carpet. It is about 2 inches thick and is very comfortable on which to sit or kneel. The combination of benches and floor pad weighs less than 100 lbs, if I recall correctly.

We also have two plastic milk crates wrapped in the same fabric which sit between the forward end of the bench and the cockpit bulkhead with the open end of the crate facing inboard. In these we store the required aircraft paperwork, the required cabin fire extinguisher and spare goggles and altis for students. They are both reachable from the pilots seat. Since the space closest to the cockpit bulkhead is are usually occupied by tandems, the tandem rig basically is supported by the carton, and the instructors butt, is on the forward end of the bench. This makes the benches essentially 9 ft plus a little, and they can hold 6-7 skydivers.

As for legality, I have had my Caravan and my Otter ramp checked at several DZs in several different jurisdictions, and looked at by my FSDO nearly every year. A few inspectors asked about them, and I told them that they were not an attached seat, berth, or appliance so they should just be considered the same as a floor cushion or interior padding for the comfort of the occupant. Then I told them that the real value is from a safety standpoint. First, it puts more weight toward the center of the aircraft by allowing tighter seating in that area (This is more important in a Caravan than an Otter. I worked the W&B on Caravans every which way you can think, and benches are pretty much mandatory to fly more than 13 in a short body, or 16 in a long body. There is no other way to get the people compressed into the center of the airplane otherwise). Second, it allows the seat belts to really function as designed in the event of a crash (we use Hooker single point belts), Third, it offers spinal protection by offering some vertical compressability between the jumpers body and the floor. It will also keep the people in the aft section somewhat seperated from the people on the bench and protect against horizontal compression. Fourth, it allows for much quicker aircraft evacuation whether on the ground or in the air. When you explain these things it is pretty difficult for any inspector to say 'take them out'. Especially if you ask them to put it in writing, so that the lawyers will know who made you remove this safety enhancing floor cushion. An inspector may argue that they can not be used unless specifically TSOd for the purpose, and I can not think of a way to argue against that, other than using the same logic and common sense previously stated. No inspector has ever gone past the point of agreeing with me that they are a good idea. However, if you already have problems with your FSDO, it may be difficult to win this argument.

If asked about combustibility and fumes, many people (including FSDO inspectors) do not realize that aircraft interior foams and fillers will burn and produce noxious fumes. They are supposed to be wrapped or covered in approved fabrics and carpets so that they will not be the first thing to burn. In theory this will allow people to escape prior to breathing poisonous gases. In airliner crashes I am not so sure if it really matters that much. In a skydiving Twin Otter crash, with nearly empty fuel tanks in the belly and one of the strongest airframes ever built surrounding me, my last worry is about fumes from the benches. In fact, each person is wearing 20 plus pounds of combustible nylon which will melt and give off a noxious smoke when it burns. My argument is that if it gets hot enough to ignite the styrofoam wrapped in fire resistant carpet, you are probably all going to burn to death from nylon melting to your skin anyway. I would rather have a chance at surviving the crash and getting out of the wreckage by being seated and restrained in a more advantageous fashion.

In my opinon, my chances of surviving and getting out are highly improved by sitting on a crushable bench seat with a properly attached and tightened Hooker single point seat belt. Of course I want everyone else on board to be wearing the same belt and have it properly attached which means through the main lift web by your gut or shoulder and made snug in a straight line to the attach fitting. I have Hookers in my C182 as well as in my Otter, and would not consider anything else until someone comes up with something even better. I honestly do not think that there is a worse way to fly jumpers than using the old fashioned caterpillar style seating on the bare floor with a cheap surplus non adjusting seat belt around the jumper or placed haphazardly through the harness. I am to the point in my skydiving career that I will not jump aircraft set up like that anymore. As a matter of fact there are a lot of aircraft and setups I won't jump anymore, but that is altogether another subject.

Fayard has the design and approved paperwork for a fixed aluminum bench seat that is similar in size and function to ours, and has been given field approvals in Otters and Caravans. They seem to be a pretty good product, but the truth is that I would rather have the crushability of the styrofoam in the event of a crash. Fayard also can install the troop style seats which work pretty well and also provide for very good use of the restraints. In my opinion, they are a royal pain for tandem operations, and I would choose the bench seats any day over troop seats. Both, however, are a quantum leap beyond seating everyone on the floor like we did in the old days.

From an operational standpoint, the ease of flying tandems should be obvious. We seldom fly more than 6 tandems per load, so being able to seat 3 pairs per side makes for very quick and smooth exiting. Even with 8 per load, the first tandem instructor can often fit on the aft edge of the bench with his student on the floor. He can then go straight to his knees or bring the student up to him for the hookup. There is no fishing around for attachment straps, everything is right there where the instructor can see and feel it. There is no need to stand up or move the student up or place him/her on your lap. After using benches since 1997, my instructors would probably go on strike if they had any other setup. On exit, we slide one after another to the end of the bench, stand up and take three steps to the door and we are out of there. With AFFs and coaching, the instructor(s) can sit behind the student or beside him/her on the opposite bench. It is far easier to gear check a student who is on a bench than one crammed between other jumpers on the floor. The student does not have to be made to stand there all hunched over while waiting for his/her turn to exit. This is a time of major anxiety for students and the less discomfort they experience, the better. There is also far less opportunity for snagged bridles, handles, etc. etc.

Another advantage is quick loading. At least 12 of the people getting on board simply climb aboard, turn around and sit down. There is no fishing for belts or moving someone's feet, knees and elbows. The difference in comfort is incredible and it makes more room on the floor for the remaining 8 or 10 who do sit on the floor. We actually have 26 seatbelts installed in the Otter and 6 in the C182 so that there are always enough belts available regardless of the combinations of tandems and big and little jumpers who take up variable amounts of space.

The only time that our benches have gotten in the way is when we had a 16 way team practicing. The benches did interfere with their door jam a little bit. What we did was either remove them for a few jumps, or disconnect the snap on the lanyard and let the jumpers move both benches to one side and stack them. Since they were the only ones on the plane it was no big deal. Another very important safety item is that the seatbelts close to the door must have the adjustment lanyard tacked down so that the user can not make it out the door with the belt still attached. This is the only disadvantage I have seen to the Hooker belts and that is that they are so comfortable and passive, jumpers will try to leave with them attached. Dangling outside the aircraft with a seatbelt attached to you is a very lonely place to be -or so I am told :-)

Hope this is helpful.

Tim Butcher
AerOhio Skydiving Center, Inc.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[bisqit999 0]

we have them but I don't know what they are made out of. I'll see if I can find some pics of it. SO much more comfortable!!