Deployment Altitude?

[brianemerson 0]

I was doing a solo jump last weekend and went through usual check with everyone in the loading area to load in the correct order. I was pulling at 4k because my canopy had been sniveling a lot lately and was trying out a few different packing methods with the nose.

I get behind a 3-4 way pulling at 3 and in front of a slow falling lady pulling at 4 (I tend to fall fast).

Everything is going fine during free fall, nice big waive off at 4.5 and my pilot chute leaves my hand at 4. Canopy opening, slider all most all the way down when I hear someone else deploying look up and they are coming down right in front of me (maybe 50 feet). I pull the right rear riser down to my ear and turn away best I can. As I glance under my left arm she is maybe 50-100 feet away and 200 feet below.

We chat on the ground and I said wow that was way too close for my comfort. She didn't even see me until after she was open.

Besides the lack of delay after me she said that she began her deployment sequence at 4K (waive then pull)

So which is it supposed to be pilot chute leaves your hand at deployment alt or waive off at deployment alt?

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

The term deployment by definition is the deployment of your parachute, I am not expert but isn't that obvious?

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[ViperPilot 0]

I personally think of it as the PC being thrown out. Just like Daniel was saying...wouldn't it just be called "wave-off" altitude when you're waving? When I was a student, my instructors told me "wave off at xx altitude and then pull at yy altitude."

Oh and Daniel...I can dance all day, I can dance all day! (haven't seen anyone else on this board who's alluded to that)

[kevinwhelan 0]

I' Agree with deployment altitude is when you throw the PC
When I had about 20 jumps I made my first trip to Empuria as I was still on
progression from static line I hadnt jumped with anyone else yet. But away from home the rules got relaxed. I went for a 3 way with the plan to deploy at 2500 ft our usual deployment altitude at home. When we landed my two friends asked me if I had an AAD. I said no."just as well " they said because if you had it would have fired. I was in the habit of ,lookat alti , 2500 ft, lookaround for other jumpers, wave off, pull.
since then I start all this well above my planed deployment altitude

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[jas8472 0]

Technically I would say Pilotchute leaving hand at deployment altitude.
But in reallity for me and I would guess most others wave off & pulling is one automatic motion and the whole process takes 1 to 1.5 seconds, which would be 200-300ft, and your average snival is 400-700ft some times more.
So some overlap could be possible if someone waves off or deploys at the same altitude.

edited to say:
freefall seperation should be what this post is about.

[valcore 0]

Everything is going fine during free fall, nice big waive off at 4.5 and my pilot chute leaves my hand at 4. Canopy opening, slider all most all the way down when I hear someone else deploying look up and they are coming down right in front of me (maybe 50 feet). I pull the right rear riser down to my ear and turn away best I can. As I glance under my left arm she is maybe 50-100 feet away and 200 feet below.



Sounds like my jump on Sunday a little too close for comfort.

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[Amanduh 0]

Wow, Brian! Sounds like a close call there, buddy. Glad you are both okay.

Did you ask her if she left sufficient time in between you and her exiting? Were either one of you tracking during your dive? (Maybe up / down the line of flight without realizing it somehow???). Trying to learn to sit fly? (backsliding is usually common when starting out) There is more to consider here than just the deployment altitude, although that definately does come into play.

Did you talk to an instructor out there at all? Her lack of traffic awareness is there for sure...what about you? Did you look above you really well before deployment?

Just a few questions. (You dont have to answer them all on this website...just keep them in your head as things to wonder next time or to maybe ask her more details about)...Gotta stay on your toes, sweetie!
Glad you are okay,
Amanda

[brianemerson 0]

No tracking or sit flying on this jump just a nice easy solo belly jump. I scanned my upper left and right during waive off and couldn't see anyone.

I am pretty good about leaving a lot of room in front of me and keeping aware of the line of flight when tracking because once I tracked up the line of flight and had to deploy a little early because I saw the group below me break off while I was tracking

I think it is pretty clear I didn't have enough time after me but I was just wondering about the deployment alti since vertical and horizontal separation are all good.

[pilotdave 0]

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I get behind a 3-4 way pulling at 3 and in front of a slow falling lady pulling at 4 (I tend to fall fast).

Exit order should generally be slowest to fastest (which is why the 3-4 way went first). She shoulda gone before you. It might not have made a difference, depending on the wind and how much time she took, how much each of you moved around in freefall, etc. But assuming there's some wind and jumprun is flown into the wind, generally the slower faller will drift further downwind... sounds like that mighta happened here.

Dave

[tdog 0]

I am no expert... But I dislike when people exiting before or after me are MORE concerned with my deployment altitude than horizontal separation... At my DZ, it seems to be the newer skydivers who ask that question. The more advanced ones are asking how fast jump run is, what the winds aloft are doing, etc to insure horizontal separation...

When my pull happens can be changed by many things. Do I have to track longer than my comfort zone because I found someone near me... Is there a camera guy pulling high and center in my group? Do I have a malfunction that dumps me at 10,000K or one that requires a reserve ride???

In my short jumping career I have seen two close calls personally with jumpers from other groups.

1) I was in a 4way team training jump. The likelihood of us backsliding all over the sky was much less than the solo sit who followed us out... I tracked away from the formation, 45 degrees to jump run. I dumped and found the sit flyer 50 feet in front of me sniveling many times closer to me than my teammates...

Upon landing, I walked up to her and she apologized profusely and was scared shit-less as she saw me in freefall... I talked in a great deal with her and she identified everything she did to put us in the situation including backsliding into our group and not leaving separation in the door... I learned it is real hard to see a sitflier above you when you are tracking...

2) Again - a 4way training jump. I break off at my normal altitude and track. I see the 4 way team that went out before us (1000 jumps each) flying their canopies right under us on jump run... When I pulled a canopy was directly below me with 1000' of vertical separation. We were completely a-ok because my main worked... However, if I would have had a mal, they would have had a front row seat.

I think our separation was good until they opted to fly their super fast high WL canopies up the jump run. Actually, the separation was "so good" that they had time to fly under our group, something that would not have happened if we were closer.

Lesson learned on that one... The second my canopy is overhead and sniveling I am looking for my teammates and turning off jump run, especially if I am heading "up" jump run and do not see the next group's canopies...

So all this babble mumbo jumbo is to say, if you do your job right, in my opinion, on maintaining horizontal separation, you won't need vertical separation... AND - vertical separation is not guaranteed with the dynamics of skydiving.

[nate_1979 9]

I tend to concern myself with both, I like knowing when the people before and after me are going to deploy, but that doesnt mean I dont take into consideration what the jumprun winds are doing and get my proper exit seperation.. I usually do try to pull either at the same or less altitude than the group exiting after me though...

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I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[tsisson 0]

Wave off at deployment altitude? We need to check the definition of DEPLOY. Alot of people responded to the poll as waving off at deployment altitude. The wave off is to signal "I'm about to DEPLOY". Actual deployment should take place at the planned altitude. Deployment is opening your container, not waving your arms around.

If you are waving off at your deployment altitude, you are late on your deployment, Period. Plan your dive, dive your plan.

[billvon 3,107]

>So which is it supposed to be pilot chute leaves your hand at
>deployment alt or waive off at deployment alt?

Pull altitude is the altitude you pull at. Deployment altitude is the altitude your parachute is deployed at. So there is no misunderstanding, organizers will often say "be open no higher than 2500 feet" which means have an open parachute no higher than 2500 feet.

[tsisson 0]

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>Pull altitude is the altitude you pull at. Deployment altitude is the altitude your parachute is deployed at. So there is no misunderstanding, organizers will often say "be open no higher than 2500 feet" which means have an open parachute no higher than 2500 feet.

Damn...there he goes again. Saying it better than I could. Can anyone stop this man? Him...him...

[kevinwhelan 0]

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Pull altitude is the altitude you pull at. Deployment altitude is the altitude your parachute is deployed at***
I think that some of the confusion is caused by the meaning of the word DEPLOY some people seem to think deploy means "activate or use" as opposed to "spread out"

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

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[crotalus01 0]

thanks for a really useful thread.... in my AFF i was told to wave off at 5500'... i was also told to "deploy" by 5500'. i guess i never really thought about a difference between the two
when i have been on loads in the past and asked when i am deploying i usually say around 4000'...but what i MEANT by that was i would wave off at 4K and THEN deploy. guess i will have to modify my definition of deploy... good food for thought, and thank you for it.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

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Oh and Daniel...I can dance all day, I can dance all day! (haven't seen anyone else on this board who's alluded to that)

ROFL glad someone got it, I did think "maybe they will just think I am crazy killer".

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