rickjump1 0 #1 May 8, 2004 Is it worth the risk to allow observers on a jump aircraft?Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 May 8, 2004 what do you call observers ?? passengers ??scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #3 May 8, 2004 I know I used to hate it when they would put a observer on my plane. In an emergency I knew I could get the jumpers out quickly (alt permitting), but then I'd have an observer to worry about. And I DID have an engine out (C-182) with an OBS onboard. I deadsticked it back to the DZ ok........ Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #4 May 8, 2004 Observers are people who fly as a passenger to watch the skydivers jump. I believe that under FAR 91 skydivers and infants(in an approved car seat) are the only ones exempt from having to sit in an approved seat onboard an aircraft. I agree with Beerlight that it's too risky in the smaller aircraft.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 May 9, 2004 I don't see the big deal for a pax in our porter, they have a proper 4 points seatbelt and a parachute too and the seat is turned bacwards so tehy can actually see people jumping.... In other planes I jumped I don't really see the point of being the passenger.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 May 10, 2004 We sometimes carry observers in our King Air, but not in our Cessnas. As an instructor, I consider them a nuisance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #7 May 10, 2004 What type of risk are we talking about? If the plane is properly maintained and you have a decent pilot is there really that much risk? The reason I ask is that I have been and observer myself just for fun and never really thought about a risk factor. Also, my daughter is really wanting to take a ride too and I am thinking about letting her do it. On a side note: I love watching the faces of passengers when they get off the plane. It is quite sometimes. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #8 May 10, 2004 >Is it worth the risk to allow observers on a jump aircraft? It is no more risk than allowing skydivers on a jump aircraft. It's up to the pilot and the DZO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 May 10, 2004 Quote What type of risk are we talking about? If the plane is properly maintained and you have a decent pilot is there really that much risk? The reason I ask is that I have been and observer myself just for fun and never really thought about a risk factor. Also, my daughter is really wanting to take a ride too and I am thinking about letting her do it. On a side note: I love watching the faces of passengers when they get off the plane. It is quite sometimes. Jeff Several years ago when most jump planes where powered by piston engines, there was a higher likely hood of an engine failure. This was not due to poor maintenance but the fact that piston engines do not like going up fast and coming down hard. The constant heating up and cooling down is hard on them. If the engine does fail, observers are just one more thing the pilot does not need at that time. With the increased use of turbine engine out problem are less likely to happen. Having a passenger is not the same as having skydivers on the plane. Skydivers are going up with the intent of jumping. A passenger is not. In many cases the passenger is alone in the back of a twin engine plane with the door open and no supervision. In my opinion this is a bad position to put the pilot in. If they want to observe they can always take a tandem ride. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StearmanR985 0 #10 May 10, 2004 QuoteHaving a passenger is not the same as having skydivers on the plane. Skydivers are going up with the intent of jumping. A passenger is not. In many cases the passenger is alone in the back of a twin engine plane with the door open and no supervision. In my opinion this is a bad position to put the pilot in. If they want to observe they can always take a tandem ride. Sparky Agreed!! But damn, some of these people just won't jump!! Can't quite figure it out... Over here the passengers ride in the front of the plane, I believe they are not allowed near the door while the plane is flying. Still funny to see the looks on their faces after their nose down return to earth. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 May 10, 2004 at Elsinore, I've seen Karl take a couple of observers up... they always sat in the co-pilot seat where he could keep an eye on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #12 May 11, 2004 My brother rode as an observer when I did my first tandem with some friends (he had a broken ankle from a motorcycle accident and couldn't jump) he was seated, belted on one of the benches that lines the sides of Kapowsin's twin otter, he was directly across from the door, had a pilots emergency rig on and my camara to get shots of our exit (and man is he a shitty photographer) the pilot was aware of him, he got a pretty good safety lecture, and some drills from the pilot. and for $30 or so got one hell of a ride!! He has yet to make a jump but once he gets a chance he's going with me. he LOVED the ride pilot threw it around a bit 0g and a diving turning rapid decent. It make a great experience for him, made the fact he couldn't jump with us a bit less bitter, and it was cool to have him along to see the exit. I dont see the risk, well nothing beyond what we take to go up the DZ got another seat filled in a light load .. .win win Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 May 11, 2004 QuoteMy brother rode as an observer when I did my first tandem with some friends (he had a broken ankle from a motorcycle accident and couldn't jump) he was seated, belted on one of the benches that lines the sides of Kapowsin's twin otter, he was directly across from the door, had a pilots emergency rig on and my camara to get shots of our exit (and man is he a shitty photographer) the pilot was aware of him, he got a pretty good safety lecture, and some drills from the pilot. and for $30 or so got one hell of a ride!! He has yet to make a jump but once he gets a chance he's going with me. he LOVED the ride pilot threw it around a bit 0g and a diving turning rapid decent. It make a great experience for him, made the fact he couldn't jump with us a bit less bitter, and it was cool to have him along to see the exit. I dont see the risk, well nothing beyond what we take to go up the DZ got another seat filled in a light load .. .win win QuoteWhat drives me nuts is when people open the door before our seatbelts are off. If that door is open, I definitely don't want my seatbelt on. We take em off at 2000, which seems like a reasonable altitude to me. If something bad enough happened at 1000 feet that the pilot screams for everyone to jump, I doubt anyone not sitting right by the door is gonna make it out. I think its more likely that the pilot will be screaming for everyone to stay put. This is a quote from a thread on seatbelts. being close to the open door with a seatbelt on can be dangerous. Particularly if the person is not familar with the rig. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #14 May 11, 2004 Quote being close to the open door with a seatbelt on can be dangerous. Particularly if the person is not familar with the rig. Sparky Does this mean that if you are going to use a jumpship without a door you will take off without a seatbelt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #15 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuote being close to the open door with a seatbelt on can be dangerous. Particularly if the person is not familiar with the rig. Sparky Does this mean that if you are going to use a jumpship without a door you will take off without a seatbelt? I won't, but what do you think of an observer in that situation? I believe that is what we were talking about.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
