Decelerated Freefall

[Eule 0]

Hello all!

Caution: Long angst-filled post follows.

Like the subject says, I think I'm developing a new training method: DFF. Yes, I have 31 jumps. No, I
haven't passed all the way through AFF yet. I am starting to get frustrated, and I am trying to figure
out my next move.

I jumped on 4 Sep, then didn't jump the next two weekends due to weather or getting to the DZ too late
in the day. I jumped again on 25 Sep. My first jump that day (#29) was the best skydive I've had yet. I
was stable, my instructor released fairly early, I held a heading and didn't turn when I didn't want to -
great! I was so happy that I actually shouted and hollered right after I got under canopy. Later that
afternoon, I went again, and did my usual unwanted spins in free fall, but at least I stood up the landing
for the first time (beer!).

This past weekend (2 Oct), I did jump #31. I spun a lot - belly to earth, but turning like crazy and not
sure how to stop it. My instructor had to stop my spinning all the way down. I remember being in the
air and thinking "I don't know how to fix this. I'm just going to wait for him to stop it." Which is the
Wrong Thing to be thinking, but it was all I knew how to do. He redocked on me just at pull altitude (5K
for me) and I was concerned that he didn't know I was about to pull, so I waved off longer and ended
up pulling low, at about 4K. (This isn't "low" for an experienced jumper, and it's not "low" as in AAD-
fire land, but it is lower than I am supposed to go.) The canopy ride was also less than great - I didn't
land out or hard, but it just didn't go very well.

When I got on the ground, I very nearly started in on the DZ employee (a video guy, not my instructor)
who walked out to meet me. But I held my tongue and went in for my debrief, which was my instructor
and the person who observed my canopy ride telling me everything I did wrong. I would much rather
them tell me what I did wrong than lie to me and tell me I did good. I think it's natural to get a little mad
when somebody tells you you did something wrong, but on previous jumps, I've been able to get over
that fairly quickly and realize that they were telling me what I needed to hear instead of what I wanted to
hear. I wasn't able to do that this time. After trying to plead my case a bit, I simply stopped talking, and
waited for them to finish. I knew that if I said anything more, it would lead to an unpleasant situation
for everyone. I took off all my gear, walked out the door, and got in my car for what turned out to be
a 3-hour drive to think about things. When I left, I wasn't sure that I would come back.

While out driving, I thought about things. I like jumping but I'd like it more if I didn't suck at it, so I need
to figure out how not to suck at it, which I'm not sure I know how to do. I have figured out pieces of it,
but I haven't yet put them all together. Some of the things I do know are:

- Some of my spins are caused by my right knee/leg being low. I have decided that my sense of
level-ness is out of calibration, so what I do is arch and put my body where I think it's in the right
position, then raise my right knee/leg a little more. This usually gets everything in the right place.

- Many of my bad jumps start out with hurrying around on the ground, or waiting until the last minute
for the wind, or similar. The fix for this, I think, is simply to not get on the load if these conditions
exist.

- Relaxing does help, when I can do it. If I start to spin slowly, sometimes I can relax and arch enough
to fix it. Once I start really turning, I tend to tense up, which doesn't help at all.

- Looking up at the plane as I exit, and arching anytime, helps me get in the right position. I used to go
head-down right after exit. I also had a couple of tumbles out the door and arching put me back belly
to earth.

I have also pondered what my possible next moves might be. So far I have come up with:

- Keep going back to the DZ and slogging it out.

- Go back to the tunnel. I went to the tunnel in late July (between jumps 15 and 16) and it did seem
to help; maybe it would help again.

- Try a different DZ for a few jumps. I do not expect this to magically fix my problem - I think the
problem is mine rather than the fault of anyone at my current DZ. But maybe an instructor at
another DZ might see something or explain something in a different way that will help me understand
what's going on. (I've jumped at the same DZ for all 31 jumps so far.)

- Go to the doctor and have my ears and related hardware checked out to make sure my balance isn't
totally hosed. I can walk around every day without falling over, but maybe I've learned to compensate
for some problem while I'm on the ground that is kicking my butt in the air.

- Realize that the large number of jumps I am taking to get through this should be telling me that I'm not
cut out for it, and hang it up.

I ended up driving back to the DZ; the folks there were kind of relieved to see me as they didn't know
where the hell I had disappeared to. We BS'd about non-skydiving things, went for a beer, and then
went home, as it was late Sunday by that point. My instructor had already left when I got back, so I
haven't yet had a chance to sit down with him with a calm head and talk about my most recent jump.
I plan to do that this weekend.

So... anybody been there and done that and got some sage advice? I know that probably none of you
have seen me jump and don't know what specific problems I might be having. But I'm pretty sure I'm
not the first person in the world to have a hard time getting through "basic".

Thanks!

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[popsjumper 2]

Leg position? Try toe taps.
Practice like crazy on the ground in a creeper until it becomes built-in muscle memory.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rasmack 0]

Bla bla bla...

As always, the answer is never to "bully" yourself through this. Find a way to do it where you have fun. That's what it is all about, right? I like your idea of trying out a different DZ. I always get a kick out of a new instructor. They always see something different.

One more suggestion is to reduce the number of things you have to have in your head. There have been previous posts from people who have changed from AFF to SL. Maybe a few SL jumps might be fun. Who knows? Anyway, they're cheap

So, chin up! Smile!

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[ScottMcC 0]

Quote

...
- Go to the doctor and have my ears and related hardware checked out to make sure my balance isn't
totally hosed. I can walk around every day without falling over, but maybe I've learned to compensate
for some problem while I'm on the ground that is kicking my butt in the air...

Eule

I'll save you a whole lot of time and money. Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Do you ever get vertigo (room spinning)?
2. Do you have any hearing loss, tinnitus (ears ringing), difficulty clearing your ears, or ear pain?
3. Do you have any trouble walking heel-to-toe in a straight line?
4. Do your have any difficulty standing heel-to-toe with your eyes closed?
5. Do you have any known serious medical problems that would have required treatment with cisplatin, gentamycin, or similar IV drugs?

If you answered no to all of the above, then the chance of you having anything medically wrong with your balance is relatively low--not zero, but pretty close. If you answered yes, find yourself an ENT, preferably a neurotology specialist. Some of them even run dedicated clinics for people with balance problems.

My advice to you in general though is to save up your time/money/energy until you can conceivably do all of AFF in one go, then consider going to a different DZ where they are willing to really teach you exactly what's going wrong. And video of yourself in freefall can't hurt either.

[flighty 0]

Try getting videoed. Sometimes it can be an unrecognised problem (like gear too big and shifting to one side) and sometimes just seeing what you are doing helps you fix it. There is often a disconnect between what you feel like you are doing and what you really are doing.

And give yourself a break. you've had what, 40 minutes to actually try to freefall? Sure some people get the hang of it quicker, but what other skill that takes balance and coordination of muscles you've never used together would you expect to master after 40 minutes of trying it?

~Cindy~
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Spelling and grammar errors are left as an exercise for the reader.

[mattjw916 2]

For a different perspective, I'd try Skydive Dallas. Not everyone learns the same way and sometimes a "fresh" start can work wonders.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[PhreeZone 20]

Honestly... this sounds like a perfect case for Perris and the tunnel there. Hook up with an AFF instuctor there that will do a 10-15 minute block with you working on just what you need to. Then go make a skydive as soon as you are done in the tunnel. If the issue still remains after the tunnel then get another few minutes in it.

I was a real slow learner when I was starting and the first half of my sydives always looked ugly as hell and it would take till about half way for me to figure out what was going on and fix my body position. Relax... its all fun remember?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[tdog 0]

Ok dude... You have a "negativity problem." You need to start thinking positive before everyone else will be positive...

Example...

Quote

and I was concerned that he didn't know I was about to pull, so I waved off longer and ended
up pulling low, at about 4K. (This isn't "low" for an experienced jumper, and it's not "low" as in AAD-
fire land, but it is lower than I am supposed to go.)

Positive side... That shows a great sign of awareness, to me... You made a decision to be extra safe, and as long as you knew where you were at and knew you had that little margin of time, you made a decision like the ones you will have to make on every jump once you start jumping with friends... Most AFF students have no awareness like this and just pull regardless of where their instructors are and the events that lead to the pull...

My lowest pull altitude is a fixed number I have decided on... A few dives back I went 500 feet below that because I knew I had the margin and I was not comfortable with pulling where I was at. Did I beat myself up for pulling low? No, but I asked myself, why was I so close to my friends and how not to do it again... Positive...

Anyway, I don't know if the instructors changed to be so negative because they were trying a new angle of teaching if the previous did not work... I don't know if they were as frustrated as you... But, it clearly is against the advice of the IRM, the manual which outlines teaching, which says focus on the positive, ignore the bad if it gets fixed, and only find a few bad things that are most important to give solutions to fix...

If I were ya, I guess I would find the head instructor at the current DZ and have a heart-to-heart talk with him/her... Or, find a new DZ... OR, get some tunnel time... I know someone else who was struggling with AFF and got 30 minutes of tunnel and passed right away...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Something has to change for you to pass, now you need to find it....

[Hambone 0]

When I was going through AFF, not so long ago, I would get down on myself and get pissed off. I expected to get it first thing. I have always picked things up pretty quickly, and I demand perfection from myself. Well when something would go wrong as you say I would get upset and be angry on the ground. Then one of my friends walked up to me and was like why are you angry. I responded with what i felt like had gone wrong in the air. He looked at me and asked did you have fun? did you land safely?. I ofcourse responded yes I did infact have fun, and yes I did infact land safely. he we like so what are you pissed off about. We will get it right the next time.
The point of the story, and the bottom line is that you are doing it for fun, lets be honest, no one started skydiving to get rich, we do it because we enjoy it. If we aren't enjoying it then we shouldn't do it. Oh and you don't suck, Its all a matter of perspective.
But remember, there is no such thing as a perfect skydive. that is what is so wonderful about it.
BLUE SKIES AND KEEP YOU HEAD UP.
HAMBONE.

Yeah...You need to grow up. -Skymama

[Feeblemind 1]

I am not an instructor, expert or anything else for that matter, but I also spun a bit during AFF. Just as a question have you had a vidiot capture one of your release dives on tape? My instructor videoed all AFF jumps and i found it much easier to correct my errors after seeing (not having someone try and describe) what I was doing wrong.

Just my $.02

Good Luck,

Phil

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[chutem 0]

Come to Eloy for some coached tunnel time, you will not be sorry. James

[OSOK 0]

"If you can start a turn, you can stop a spin." -Ted Strong

[blithedj 0]

I think in a sport like this, the most important thing next to safety and awareness is encouragement. Face it - you're doing something that's totally new to you, most people never jump out of airplanes.

If an instructor is being totally negative with you, then why would you want to jump with them? That just isn't fun. I know that I've felt discouraged not being able to get every one of my student jumps flawless so far.

Like has been said - stay positive, if your instructors aren't having fun teaching you, then you should at least try to have some fun teasing them about their negative attitude.

[Airman1270 0]

You're doing very well! Be discouraged, for a brief time, but stay with it. As previously observed here, you're level of awareness in relation to your modest experience is above average, and your experiences are so typical they're not newsworthy. The fact that your friends were 1)"your friends", and 2) relieved you came back shows that nobody thinks you're not cut out for this.

Be aware, also, of cultural attitudes which mght affect your thinking way out of proportion to their importance: Tunnel time can be helpful, but you'll learn this sport and do just fine if you never even drive past one, let alone buy the time...

Nothing wrong about pulling "a little low" as long as you know where you are and are making the decision for such safety-related reasons as you described. Many AFF graduates begin their jumping careers with a well-nourished fear of being in freefall at 3000'. Those of us who began on static line at 2800' find this amusing...

AAD's serve a useful purpose. Buy one if you want to, but don't ever reach the point where you're afraid to jump without one, and support no effort to make the damn things manadatory.

Due to such factors as time, money, four-hour drives to the DZ, and medical bills (broken ankle on my first jump w/no insurance), It took me over two years to complete my student training with 53 jumps. The funny thing is I did just fine, with few minor setbacks. I took to this sport as a natural, and even pulled my reserve on my 14th jump shortly before the AAD would have fired (couldn't find main ripcord.) Going several weeks between jumps was not a problem, and back in the early 1980's we weren't being constantly preached to about ridiculous currency standards that assumed you'd forget everything if you hadn't jumped in two months.

Let us know when you graduate, and fill in some more details. Meanwhile, I haven't jumped in a month, my reserves are out of date, things are slow at work, and my wife will not be pleased when I decide to get a repack and get back to the DZ. It'll be at least two more weeks before I fly again. But at least I don't own property in New Orleans.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Orange1 0]

caution: long answer

Yeah... i can sympathise somewhat.
My brief history includes 12 static line jumps (vs a minumum of 8 here), a brilliant first freefall, a switch to AFF where i somehow passed all levels first go, and then (with a number of solo jumps inbetween) half getting stuck on ISP jumps, the 7 coached RW jumps we need for an A. um.. 7 minumum that is, I've done 6 ISP jumps and have just managed to pass level 3, on the 3rd try. It wasn't a brilliant jump, but good enough to pass, and 2 important things happened for me: i'm great with alti awareness on solo jumps but was getting so caught up in "performance anxiety" that I had been bad on this on the ISP jumps - on the last one it clicked. The second thing is that i started realising what i was doing wrong in the air on my own (yup, i'm one of those simpletons who instinctively reaches forward to dock without realising it, which has the opposite effect). I guess what i'm saying is - eventually, it all clicks into place. And sometimes, as you've done, you do it right on one jump and then it doesn't work on the next one.. but slowly it all starts to happen consistently, eventually. And you have already made a lot of progress on some things you were getting wrong, so something positive is happening.
I went through a number of times wondering if this sport was really for me but i love it and so here i am sticking around.

Now, just a few observations:
first, one thing that helped me is chatting to really experienced jumpers and finding out that almost everyone struggled with something, at some stage.
second, you say your instructor "tells you everything you did wrong" - you need to know what you've done wrong, of cours, but are you getting positive feedback too on what you've done right and encouragement? this sport, to me, is so much a mental thing and this kind of stuff is important.
finally, you say you've done all 31 jumps at the same DZ, but have you done them with different instructors? sometimes different people pick different things up. I'd also support getting videod, on my AFF there were things that i thought i had been doing ok, but could see in the video where i was going wrong.

fwiw, we were taught that the easiest way to stop a spin is to look in the other direction, but i don't think you're asking for a tip on that. you're trying to find out if you should stay in this sport. i'm assuming that if you were consistently doing unsafe things, you would have been told to stop. some of us are just slow learners in this sport (me included) but if you love it, go for it. maybe another DZ will help; going for one "test jump" at another DZ can't hurt, i suppose?

Good luck.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Broke 0]

Think "straight"

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[azureriders 0]

About your suspicions on balance problems. I am no expert by any means on either subject (medical or skydiving), but balance I know. I am a residential carpenter who grew up in the trade on the structures. I can walk a 3 1/2' wide beam, toe to heal, back wards while staying bent over hands to feet, tape measure in one hand, pencil in the other, marking the beam for joist and rafter placement, and I have done this as high as 4 stories with nothing under me but concrete, NO PROBLEMS.

BUT, on my sixth jump (my first release and with only one instructor as outlined in the ATP course), I started to spin as soon as I was released and continued to get faster until I was completely flat, legs out until my instructor was able to attack the spin and cause me to stop, but only for a moment and as I had knocked him back hard I decided to pull before I got violent again, PC out at 10grand with believe it or not no twist but one broke suspension line and flying with a natural right turn that took a good 1/3 left brake to straighten out, but it was square and flared fine so I landed it, uneventfully.

Moral of the story, I know my balance is not the cause of my spin and IMO not yours, most people with balance problems seem to know about them, not just learn to deal with them on the ground some how.

Going back to the DZ this sunday for jump #7 after a 10 week layoff on account of katrina @#$%^&* up the DZ. WISH ME LUCK and good luck to you, hope you figure it out soon

[calledisrael 0]

hey Eule, just wanted to say... keep at it. i felt sort of like you when i "graduated" aff with 14 jumps but still couldn't do much. going to another dz really helped me - it was sure not my instructor's fault before, but getting a new perspective at a really student-oriented dz SO helped me.

i saw that someone suggested sd dallas - i have visited there and was so impressed.
good luck - you can do this.

life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.
(helen keller)

[Superman32 0]

Sometimes it just clicks and everything falls into place.

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Eule 0]

First off, thanks for the many replies!

Instead of creating many posts, I'm going to attempt to reply to everything in one big post.
I'll go along in the order that the replies were originally posted. We'll see how it goes.

Quote

rasmack> One more suggestion is to reduce the number of things you have to have in
rasmack> your head.

If I understand you correctly, I/my instructors have sort of done this already. I have done
a few (OK, several) dives where the plan was simply: exit; COA; be stable, belly-to-earth,
and hold a heading with no turns or spins; wave off and pull at the usual altitude. Not the
usual "turn one way, then the other, then forward motion" kind of plan. I have talked about
doing an IAD/SL type skydive - more below.

Quote

ScottMcC> 1. Do you ever get vertigo (room spinning)?
ScottMcC> 2. Do you have any hearing loss, tinnitus (ears ringing), difficulty
ScottMcC> clearing your ears, or ear pain?
ScottMcC> 3. Do you have any trouble walking heel-to-toe in a straight line?
ScottMcC> 4. Do your have any difficulty standing heel-to-toe with your eyes closed?
ScottMcC> 5. Do you have any known serious medical problems that would have required
ScottMcC> treatment with cisplatin, gentamycin, or similar IV drugs?

1. Very occasionally, like maybe two or three times a year. If I close my eyes and sit
still, it usually passes after less than a minute.
2. Hearing loss? No. I am not occupationally or otherwise repeatedly exposed to loud
noises. I can usually tell if a TV is on in another room, even if it's muted and I can't
see the light from the screen - I can hear the 15.7 kHz whine. Ringing? Occasionally.
Less than once a month and more than once a quarter. When it happens, it doesn't affect
my ability to have a conversation and I don't think I speak more loudly than usual. Hard
to clear? Sometimes it takes me a while (maybe 0.5-1 hour) after I come down from a jump.
Pain? No.
3. No. Tried it on a tile floor and walked along one of the joints - OK.
4. A little. If I do it with my eyes open, I lean back and forth and tense and relax my
leg muscles to stay balanced (hands at sides). If I start with my eyes open (either looking
down at my feet or straight ahead), and then close them, I can stay vertical for a while,
but eventually I start leaning to one side or the other far enough that I stop the experiment
so I don't fall over. Usually I end up leaning to the right when I feel I'm about to fall.
5. No.

Based on that, perhaps it would be helpful to find a doctor.

Quote

ScottMcC> My advice to you in general though is to save up your time/money/energy
ScottMcC> until you can conceivably do all of AFF in one go,

If I can finish AFF in less than about ten jumps, that's probably feasible. Much more than
that and I'll have to wait long enough that I'll probably have to start from AFF 1 again.

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ScottMcC> And video of yourself in freefall can't hurt either.
flighty> Try getting videoed.

I've gotten video once for exactly this reason. On that dive, I managed to not have whatever
problem is bothering me.

Quote

flighty> There is often a disconnect between what you feel like you are doing and
flighty> what you really are doing.

I think I have already experienced this a bit. When my brain tells me I am level, it's lying
to me a little bit - if it tells me I am level and then I stick my right leg a little further
up in the air, I seem to be closer to actually level.

Quote

flighty> And give yourself a break. you've had what, 40 minutes to actually try to
flighty> freefall?

I'm at right about 22 minutes (182-10K to 12.5K). I hear you, but I also heard the same
thing when it was "you've only got 10 minutes of freefall, relax!" :)

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PhreeZone> Honestly... this sounds like a perfect case for Perris and the tunnel
PhreeZone> there. Hook up with an AFF instuctor there that will do a 10-15 minute
PhreeZone> block with you working on just what you need to. Then go make a skydive
PhreeZone> as soon as you are done in the tunnel.

I did go to North Carolina in July. The tunnel seemed to help, and I wanted to make a jump
after my tunnel time there, but I couldn't organize it in the time I had. When I got back
home and jumped, I seemed to do a little better.

This past weekend, I talked to the DZO for a while, and he said about the same thing regarding
a tunnel. Basically, "go to the tunnel and don't leave until you think you've got it fixed."
More on this conversation below.

Quote

tdog> Most AFF students have no awareness like this and just pull regardless of where
tdog> their instructors are and the events that lead to the pull...

I thought about it a little more. I'm pretty sure the instructors are trained to expect all
kinds of crazy sh-t from a student, and should therefore be smart enough to not put themselves
in a bad spot. Most of the time, at pull time, I've been able to see my instructor(s) - maybe
not their whole body, but at least they were in front of me, or on my side but towards my
front. This time, my instructor was at my right rear. I knew he had docked on me but it felt
a little odd as he was changing grips right after he docked and I wasn't sure what was going on.

My instructor, and especially the DZO, don't seem to be very interested in justifications for
my not pulling on time. Words like "must" enter the conversation quickly.

Quote

tdog> Anyway, I don't know if the instructors changed to be so negative because they
tdog> were trying a new angle of teaching if the previous did not work... I don't know
tdog> if they were as frustrated as you...

Re-reading my post, I may have been a little hard on them. On my earlier skydives, I
definitely got the debrief of things I did well first, followed by things I needed to work
on. Lately, the dive plan has been pretty simple, and I feel like I know if I did well or
not while I'm still in the air. It might have been unfair to say that the only things they
told me were what I had done wrong, but the "be nice first" part was kind of brief.

Quote

tdog> If I were ya, I guess I would find the head instructor at the current DZ and
tdog> have a heart-to-heart talk with him/her...

I did this, this past weekend (8 Oct). I got one jump in on Saturday, during which the first
part of the dive was fine, but I started spinning near the end. No jumps on Sunday. I've
only ever had three instructors - two people that work there as instructors on some of my
jumps, and the DZO (also an instructor) on a few of my jumps. The DZO and I talked. We
talked about the tunnel, as above. One theory that he and one of my other instructors is
developing is that the pattern of "I spin, instructor stops" may not be useful. I don't
_plan_ on having the instructor stop my spins - I want to fix them myself. In the jump
that prompted my original post, I got mad at myself for thinking "the instructor will stop
the spin because I can't". But they feel that they might be reinforcing a bad habit. The
DZO suggested that I might do a jump with the instructor jumping with me but relatively
far away (i.e., he's not going to come in and stop my spin), or maybe by myself so that
I _know_ there is nobody to stop my spin.

Quote

Hambone> He looked at me and asked did you have fun? did you land safely?.

I've been asked that, as well. Almost always I can answer 'yes' to both. The jump that
prompted the post was the first one where if anyone had asked if I had fun, I'd have told
them 'no', which was a signal to me that something is a little off.

After I had ten or so jumps, I came back home from the DZ and the other half asked "How's
the skydiving going?" I just sort of looked myself up and down, stretched my arms and legs,
and said, "Pretty well, apparently!" We both broke out laughing. :)

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blithedj> If an instructor is being totally negative with you, then why would you
blithedj> want to jump with them?

Like I said above, perhaps I was being a bit hard on them. On the other hand, if I land
knowing that I didn't complete a very simple dive plan, maybe they feel it's not much use
in trying to give me the good stuff first.

Quote

Airman1270> The fact that your friends were 1)"your friends", and 2) relieved you
Airman1270> came back shows that nobody thinks you're not cut out for this.

I brought this up with the DZO - the idea that if I'm having this much trouble, maybe I'm
in the wrong sport? He said he didn't think so; he wasn't going to tell me not to jump -
he didn't think I was dangerous; he thought I knew how to do it because I've done the
right things, just not all in one jump; but that something different needed to happen for
me and he wasn't sure what that was.

Quote

Airman1270> Tunnel time can be helpful, but you'll learn this sport and do just
Airman1270> fine if you never even drive past one, let alone buy the time...

Well, I've driven past one half a dozen times now, I should be doing great! :) I did
go to the tunnel back in July (see above). I think that if I do go again, I will go to
a place (Perris or Eloy) where I can jump immediately after the tunnel time to see if
the tunnel time "took".

Quote

Airman1270> Nothing wrong about pulling "a little low" as long as you know where
Airman1270> you are and are making the decision for such safety-related reasons
Airman1270> as you described.

Hey, I agree with this, but my instructors don't, so I have to listen to them or go
someplace else...

Quote

Airman1270> AAD's serve a useful purpose.

I agree, but I am also aware of the arguments surrounding them. At this point I always
jump with one because I'm jumping the DZ's gear, all their gear has AADs, and the gear
checks are thorough enough that having it shut off would get noticed.

Quote

Orange1> first, one thing that helped me is chatting to really experienced jumpers
Orange1> and finding out that almost everyone struggled with something, at some stage.

I'm getting some of that in person and a lot of that here, and it does help. Before I ever
went to a DZ, I read dropzone.com, Poynter and Turoff's book, and some other things on the
Web. Pretty much 90% of what I read has turned out to match the actual experience. The only
thing that I disagree with in the 'new to jumping' material is the (implied? put there by my
own wishful thinking?) idea that 'you go out, do 7 jumps, you're done with AFF, 18 more to
your A license, there you go'. After getting into it, I hope to one day find the mythical
skydiver who passed his or her AFF in precisely 7 jumps. :)

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Orange1> finally, you say you've done all 31 jumps at the same DZ, but have you done
Orange1> them with different instructors?

Sort of. I've only ever jumped with three instructors - two who work there as instructors,
and the DZO, who is also an instructor. I don't think there are any other AFF instructors
at the DZ. Of the two who aren't the DZO, I've had a little better luck with one over the
other, I think.

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azureriders> I have done this as high as 4 stories with nothing under me but
azureriders> concrete, NO PROBLEMS.

I've seen carpenters doing that before and wondered how the hell they didn't fall off.
It very well could have nothing to do with my balance. It was sort of on my mind because
I had a cold a couple of weeks ago during the week and my ears got stuffed up and my
balance got a little weird. It was fine by the time Saturday rolled around, but it made
me think about possible problems in that direction.

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azureriders> Going back to the DZ this sunday for jump #7 after a 10 week layoff
azureriders> on account of katrina @#$%^&* up the DZ.

I hope it went well!

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Superman32> Sometimes it just clicks and everything falls into place.

That's happened to me once. I want to make it happen more often. :) Making it happen
every time is not realistic, but I think I can get better odds than 1 in 32.

I am still pondering my next action - it's not going to be to hang up my wings, but it's
probably not going to be to do the same thing I've been doing to learn.

Thanks again to everyone for the thoughtful replies!

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[mnealtx 0]

Eule -

Now you've met one of the 'mythical' students.

I was the same way through the first part of my AFF. I wanted to do everything *perfectly*. I put so much pressure on myself that I would tense up in freefall wanting everything to go perfect, and I would end up wobbling all over the sky.

It took an instructor (Thanks, Kristen!) having me debrief the jump and then ask me "Why didn't you have fun?" to make me realize the pressure that I was putting on myself. This *IS* supposed to be a fun sport!!

So, here's my advice, for what it's worth: Try to relax! If you feel yourself tense up, take a deep breath, blow it out, and *CONSCIOUSLY* relax. It may just help with the inconsistencies that are causing your problems with spins.

Don't forget to "find the fun"... and good luck!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Airman1270 0]

Airman1270> Nothing wrong about pulling "a little low" as long as you know where you are and are making the decision for such safety-related reasons as you described...


Hey, I agree with this, but my instructors don't, so I have to listen to them or go
someplace else...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Yes. My comment was simply a general observation. Of course, while you're still a student do whatever your instructors tell you to do.

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Airman1270> AAD's serve a useful purpose.

I agree, but I am also aware of the arguments surrounding them. At this point I always
jump with one because I'm jumping the DZ's gear, all their gear has AADs, and the gear
checks are thorough enough that having it shut off would get noticed...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


Yes. Nothing wrong with an AAD, and I have no quarrel with the requirement that they be used on student rigs. I wore an AAD on most of my student freefalls. There were times, as a student, that I did not have an AAD but I did have more than 40 jumps and it was no big deal. I do remember this being on my mind as I exited the plane for a 30 second delay, watching the ground get big and knowing I'd hit it very soon if I didn't do anything. It was a milestone of sorts, a real feeling of accomplishment. This was also the first time I wore sneakers instead of jump boots. (Anybody remember jump boots?)

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Orange1 0]

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After getting into it, I hope to one day find the mythical skydiver who passed his or her AFF in precisely 7 jumps. :)

Hey - i passed all AFF jumps first go, then got stuck a bit later! (fwiw what i was struggling with has just all 'clicked' and i've just cruised my last few ISP jumps! so cool to FINALLY see that "A" next to my name...)

One of my instructors has invented a new in-air signal - it means 'relax'! maybe you can talk with your instructors about this

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[philip2005 0]

I know exactly how you feel, i thought i'd get through AFF in a week. But i had hurdles too, first i kept tumbling on exit and not having time to do all the turns and stuff, then i kept on having a loose left leg, which i couldn't fix no matter how much i tried. My solution, was to go to a wind tunnel until i got it right consistently. It saved me loads of money, and once i had fixed it, i was so much more relaxed when i next jumped, because i was confident, and it was probably actually just the pshycological effect more than the physical effect the tunnel had on me that made me get it right. So what i'm saying is get it in your head that you can do it, then you will do it.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Its not a negativity problem as someone else said. You've got a lot of jumps under your belt and still on AFF. Thats gotta be really disheartening and frustrating. Chin up and hit the wind tunnel

Best of Luck

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.