morningdove831 0 #1 November 13, 2005 I have made 17 jumps ... 1 tandem, 15 static lines and 1 AFF. I'm extremely frustrated with my progress (or lack thereof) and wanted to get some opinions. During the AFF jump (last weekend) I was completely stable and my instructors never had to stabilize me once. They even commented that I was "stable as a rock." It felt more natural and was much easier for me. I was supposed to come off the SL today, but still having stability issues. Today this resulted in severe line twists -- and subsequent fast spin -- which scared the sh*t out of me. I am seriously considering going forward with AFF to fix my stability problems. What are the pros and cons of sticking with my current method of SL and going to delays versus continuing with AFF? In case it matters, I'm a very petite female (5'1", 97 lbs) and you can view my profile to see the gear I'm jumping (my own rig). Any advice is appreciated!! One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simulacra 0 #2 November 13, 2005 I'm at level 8 in my S/L training and thinking of switching to AFF since it feels like you never get to jump in S/L. All you seem to do is hopping and popping, in AFF you're there, learning to skydive with help when you really need it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #3 November 13, 2005 If I had stuck with S/L I would have never gotten past it. My S/L Instructor took me aside and said, "Look, maybe skydiving isn't for you." So, I moved on to AFF. It worked for me, and it sounds like it may work for you. If you can afford it, do it. You'll be glad you did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morningdove831 0 #4 November 13, 2005 Thank you! All I know is how easy & natural my first AFF jump seemed. The S/L seems quite unnatural -- almost forced -- and I've made 15 S/L jumps with no real progress. If I'm going to spend the money, I'd at least like to progress and move along toward my A license. This means I'll have to switch to a different dz for a short time, but my current dzo and JMs are very supportive of that. They know I'll be back. And, they just want me to learn, regardless of how that happens. One other girl at our dz had to switch to AFF and she is now a great skydiver. I think I shall give it a try ... One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpergirl 0 #5 November 13, 2005 Quotemy current dzo and JMs are very supportive of that. They know I'll be back. And, they just want me to learn, regardless of how that happens. One other girl at our dz had to switch to AFF and she is now a great skydiver. I think I shall give it a try ... That's what matters! Give it a shot and see how it goes. You seem to have a good head and realize what worked for you. Maybe a few more AFF jumps and go from there. Good luck, and keep us posted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #6 November 13, 2005 15 static lines? Why so many? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morningdove831 0 #7 November 13, 2005 Because I keep going unstable on the prcp. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #8 November 13, 2005 QuoteBecause I keep going unstable on the prcp. Static Line...breeeds instabilitystatic line has always been a dzo's best friend.... cause it lets you get a dozen "first jump students" DONE... in 4 cessna loads to 3 Grand.........Sometimes with all the students having the same Jumpmaster.. Try doing 12 tandems or affs.....in the 2 hours it takes to dispatch 12 SL's.. ( my guess is that you're at a Cessna dropzone ) In order to skydive we need to freefall.... Altitude is the answer.. NOT continuous repetitive anxiety inducing low altitude climbouts and step offs.. Poised exits, a thing of the past are easily able to shake the confidence of many a student.. I wonder how many 'turbine newbies' of the last 10 years or so, would have assimilated into this sport as easily,,,,if they had to Walk out under the wing of a small plane,,, at ONLY 3000 feet for their first five parachute rides????? hahaha The natural selection process then, was much more severe than it is today...It really was scary when compared to the comfortable exits from otters and caravans and tailgates cruising along at 13,500. Anyway....Has your dzo offered you ANY of these 15 static lines at a reduced price? 5 Static lines used to be all it should have taken... to start climbing higher, in order to enjoy longer freefalls,, Then at that point in a jumpers career, confidence and therefore stability would also begin to grow. If you can go where altitude and bigger airplanes are available you may find success.. You have more than paid your dues... by making alll these sl jumps,, and your persistence is admirable!!.. good luck jmy....o[:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #9 November 13, 2005 Khm. I don't think it is so simple. How can you start or progress with AFF if the ceiling is 1200 or 1500m? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #10 November 13, 2005 Jimmy, as someone who has done both SL and AFF I can't really agree with you. I did 12 SLs, with the problem at first being stability, as well (btw we have a minumum of 8, not 5, here). I'm not quite the featherweight morningdove is but am still relatively light (for a skydiver) at 120lb and I have wondered before as there seems to be a link between small girls and SL instability! fwiw, i had a brilliant first freefall, and switched to AFF mainly because the progression was shorter... Morningdove, I do think though it sounds like there is an issue that your SL jumpmasters, for whatever reason, haven't been able to pick up. If AFF feels comfortable, I'd say go with it, especially as you have the advantage of probably being reasonably comfortable with both the door and canopy control by now, enabling you to concentrate on the freefall. Have fun! btw if you can get vidoe, do, because it's a great learning tool.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #11 November 13, 2005 Sounds like you have learned all you possibly can on the "dope rope." No single system is "best" for training skydivers. The ideal system starts with tandem, then involves a few S/L followed by a bit of time in a wind tunnel, followed by a few AFF dives, followed by a few coach dives, etc. Your next lesson should be in a wind tunnel, with an AFF instructor. Once you have mastered basic stability in a wind tunnel, then do a few jumps with AFF instructors. Rob Warner more current than I want to be with S/L, IAD, PFF, tandem, rigging, handy-mount, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #12 November 13, 2005 I did fine on my static lines, but had a lot of trouble with stable exits on my first 5-second delays. I did a few AFF jumps, just to get comfortable with getting stable on exit and stable in freefall. I jumped back into the static-line progression at 45-second delays. Obviously, I still had to get my 5-second delays to meet the hop & pop requirement on my A card, but by that point I was comfortable and confident enough to do it. (Now, I actually enjoy hop & pops ... go figure). As others have said, there's lots of ways to skin a cat. Find what works best for you and go with it."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morningdove831 0 #13 November 15, 2005 Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement! I'm going to do my level 2 Sunday (weather permitting), and I'm very excited about it! My level 1 was perfect and I'm eager to see my progress with each level. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
morningdove831 0 #4 November 13, 2005 Thank you! All I know is how easy & natural my first AFF jump seemed. The S/L seems quite unnatural -- almost forced -- and I've made 15 S/L jumps with no real progress. If I'm going to spend the money, I'd at least like to progress and move along toward my A license. This means I'll have to switch to a different dz for a short time, but my current dzo and JMs are very supportive of that. They know I'll be back. And, they just want me to learn, regardless of how that happens. One other girl at our dz had to switch to AFF and she is now a great skydiver. I think I shall give it a try ... One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #5 November 13, 2005 Quotemy current dzo and JMs are very supportive of that. They know I'll be back. And, they just want me to learn, regardless of how that happens. One other girl at our dz had to switch to AFF and she is now a great skydiver. I think I shall give it a try ... That's what matters! Give it a shot and see how it goes. You seem to have a good head and realize what worked for you. Maybe a few more AFF jumps and go from there. Good luck, and keep us posted! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #6 November 13, 2005 15 static lines? Why so many? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morningdove831 0 #7 November 13, 2005 Because I keep going unstable on the prcp. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #8 November 13, 2005 QuoteBecause I keep going unstable on the prcp. Static Line...breeeds instabilitystatic line has always been a dzo's best friend.... cause it lets you get a dozen "first jump students" DONE... in 4 cessna loads to 3 Grand.........Sometimes with all the students having the same Jumpmaster.. Try doing 12 tandems or affs.....in the 2 hours it takes to dispatch 12 SL's.. ( my guess is that you're at a Cessna dropzone ) In order to skydive we need to freefall.... Altitude is the answer.. NOT continuous repetitive anxiety inducing low altitude climbouts and step offs.. Poised exits, a thing of the past are easily able to shake the confidence of many a student.. I wonder how many 'turbine newbies' of the last 10 years or so, would have assimilated into this sport as easily,,,,if they had to Walk out under the wing of a small plane,,, at ONLY 3000 feet for their first five parachute rides????? hahaha The natural selection process then, was much more severe than it is today...It really was scary when compared to the comfortable exits from otters and caravans and tailgates cruising along at 13,500. Anyway....Has your dzo offered you ANY of these 15 static lines at a reduced price? 5 Static lines used to be all it should have taken... to start climbing higher, in order to enjoy longer freefalls,, Then at that point in a jumpers career, confidence and therefore stability would also begin to grow. If you can go where altitude and bigger airplanes are available you may find success.. You have more than paid your dues... by making alll these sl jumps,, and your persistence is admirable!!.. good luck jmy....o[:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #9 November 13, 2005 Khm. I don't think it is so simple. How can you start or progress with AFF if the ceiling is 1200 or 1500m? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #10 November 13, 2005 Jimmy, as someone who has done both SL and AFF I can't really agree with you. I did 12 SLs, with the problem at first being stability, as well (btw we have a minumum of 8, not 5, here). I'm not quite the featherweight morningdove is but am still relatively light (for a skydiver) at 120lb and I have wondered before as there seems to be a link between small girls and SL instability! fwiw, i had a brilliant first freefall, and switched to AFF mainly because the progression was shorter... Morningdove, I do think though it sounds like there is an issue that your SL jumpmasters, for whatever reason, haven't been able to pick up. If AFF feels comfortable, I'd say go with it, especially as you have the advantage of probably being reasonably comfortable with both the door and canopy control by now, enabling you to concentrate on the freefall. Have fun! btw if you can get vidoe, do, because it's a great learning tool.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #11 November 13, 2005 Sounds like you have learned all you possibly can on the "dope rope." No single system is "best" for training skydivers. The ideal system starts with tandem, then involves a few S/L followed by a bit of time in a wind tunnel, followed by a few AFF dives, followed by a few coach dives, etc. Your next lesson should be in a wind tunnel, with an AFF instructor. Once you have mastered basic stability in a wind tunnel, then do a few jumps with AFF instructors. Rob Warner more current than I want to be with S/L, IAD, PFF, tandem, rigging, handy-mount, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #12 November 13, 2005 I did fine on my static lines, but had a lot of trouble with stable exits on my first 5-second delays. I did a few AFF jumps, just to get comfortable with getting stable on exit and stable in freefall. I jumped back into the static-line progression at 45-second delays. Obviously, I still had to get my 5-second delays to meet the hop & pop requirement on my A card, but by that point I was comfortable and confident enough to do it. (Now, I actually enjoy hop & pops ... go figure). As others have said, there's lots of ways to skin a cat. Find what works best for you and go with it."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morningdove831 0 #13 November 15, 2005 Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement! I'm going to do my level 2 Sunday (weather permitting), and I'm very excited about it! My level 1 was perfect and I'm eager to see my progress with each level. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
peckerhead 0 #6 November 13, 2005 15 static lines? Why so many? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morningdove831 0 #7 November 13, 2005 Because I keep going unstable on the prcp. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #8 November 13, 2005 QuoteBecause I keep going unstable on the prcp. Static Line...breeeds instabilitystatic line has always been a dzo's best friend.... cause it lets you get a dozen "first jump students" DONE... in 4 cessna loads to 3 Grand.........Sometimes with all the students having the same Jumpmaster.. Try doing 12 tandems or affs.....in the 2 hours it takes to dispatch 12 SL's.. ( my guess is that you're at a Cessna dropzone ) In order to skydive we need to freefall.... Altitude is the answer.. NOT continuous repetitive anxiety inducing low altitude climbouts and step offs.. Poised exits, a thing of the past are easily able to shake the confidence of many a student.. I wonder how many 'turbine newbies' of the last 10 years or so, would have assimilated into this sport as easily,,,,if they had to Walk out under the wing of a small plane,,, at ONLY 3000 feet for their first five parachute rides????? hahaha The natural selection process then, was much more severe than it is today...It really was scary when compared to the comfortable exits from otters and caravans and tailgates cruising along at 13,500. Anyway....Has your dzo offered you ANY of these 15 static lines at a reduced price? 5 Static lines used to be all it should have taken... to start climbing higher, in order to enjoy longer freefalls,, Then at that point in a jumpers career, confidence and therefore stability would also begin to grow. If you can go where altitude and bigger airplanes are available you may find success.. You have more than paid your dues... by making alll these sl jumps,, and your persistence is admirable!!.. good luck jmy....o[:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #9 November 13, 2005 Khm. I don't think it is so simple. How can you start or progress with AFF if the ceiling is 1200 or 1500m? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #10 November 13, 2005 Jimmy, as someone who has done both SL and AFF I can't really agree with you. I did 12 SLs, with the problem at first being stability, as well (btw we have a minumum of 8, not 5, here). I'm not quite the featherweight morningdove is but am still relatively light (for a skydiver) at 120lb and I have wondered before as there seems to be a link between small girls and SL instability! fwiw, i had a brilliant first freefall, and switched to AFF mainly because the progression was shorter... Morningdove, I do think though it sounds like there is an issue that your SL jumpmasters, for whatever reason, haven't been able to pick up. If AFF feels comfortable, I'd say go with it, especially as you have the advantage of probably being reasonably comfortable with both the door and canopy control by now, enabling you to concentrate on the freefall. Have fun! btw if you can get vidoe, do, because it's a great learning tool.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #11 November 13, 2005 Sounds like you have learned all you possibly can on the "dope rope." No single system is "best" for training skydivers. The ideal system starts with tandem, then involves a few S/L followed by a bit of time in a wind tunnel, followed by a few AFF dives, followed by a few coach dives, etc. Your next lesson should be in a wind tunnel, with an AFF instructor. Once you have mastered basic stability in a wind tunnel, then do a few jumps with AFF instructors. Rob Warner more current than I want to be with S/L, IAD, PFF, tandem, rigging, handy-mount, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #12 November 13, 2005 I did fine on my static lines, but had a lot of trouble with stable exits on my first 5-second delays. I did a few AFF jumps, just to get comfortable with getting stable on exit and stable in freefall. I jumped back into the static-line progression at 45-second delays. Obviously, I still had to get my 5-second delays to meet the hop & pop requirement on my A card, but by that point I was comfortable and confident enough to do it. (Now, I actually enjoy hop & pops ... go figure). As others have said, there's lots of ways to skin a cat. Find what works best for you and go with it."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morningdove831 0 #13 November 15, 2005 Thanks everyone for your replies and encouragement! I'm going to do my level 2 Sunday (weather permitting), and I'm very excited about it! My level 1 was perfect and I'm eager to see my progress with each level. One who looks for a friend without faults will have none. -- Hasidic Saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
