NewGuy2005 53 #1 November 16, 2005 Here's the idea: Buy a large but not insanely expensive plane such as a Beech 18, make the circuit of regional Cessna drop zones. Make enough money to make the payments and maintenance on the plane and a little extra. Pay off the plane. Here's the question: There must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. Do any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I know that it's too big a question to answer on the forum, but I thought someone might have already done the legwork on such an idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #2 November 16, 2005 oh god... anything but a Beech 18... Anyone ever tell you why a Beech 18 has 2 engines? Because it can't take off with 1!!! 40 minutes to altitude just ain't gunna cut it nowadays... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 November 16, 2005 A lot of issues to work out. Maintenance on the road. Parts on the road. Hotel room every night. Ferry fees. Weather issues. Some Cessna DZ's don't want a larger plane coming in because they make less money than they would just flying their own aircraft. Cessna DZ's aren't going to have enough jumpers for a big plane during the week. So do you sit around doing nothing paying for a hotel room and rrental car making no money or do you fly home, spending money on fuel and maintenance? Competetition; There are other aircraft owners that will provide aircraft ot DZ's that have been doing it for along time. That's just off the top of my head. It would be tough. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 1 #4 November 16, 2005 The second engine gets you to the scene of the crash!!Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #5 November 16, 2005 how about a really big Helicopter that way you don't have to worry about runway considerations. something like a CH-46 http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/ch46.htmDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #6 November 16, 2005 Hehe, well with a CH-46 you might not need to worry about runways, but you'd have to worry about falling out of the sky! There's a reason they're getting retired... BTW, you'd probably be shocked if you looked into maintenance and operating costs for a big helicopter. A single rotor blade will cost more than a small fleet of 182s. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #7 November 16, 2005 I just like the novelty of jumping out of a helo at altitudes that normally you only get in a planeDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 November 16, 2005 Get a Westwind Beech 18. Turbine version thats about 15 minutes to altitude. Still scares the hell out of me seeing the tail up but we are stil building speed on take off. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #9 November 16, 2005 QuoteThere must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. A Beech 18? Nope, your the 1st! Good luck! Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #10 November 16, 2005 I'd prefere a Beech 99. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propilot 0 #11 November 16, 2005 Youd be better off getting a caravan or PAC750 and setting up a Part135 night freight business. Then, when there are several days between flights you could hop over to the nearest cessna dz and fly some jumpers. IE, Based in Columbus Ohio. Have a night freight run from CLM - SLT - SLC. But the freight in SLT doesnt need to be run till 4 days after you get there....find the nearest dz.... a lot easier said than done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #12 November 16, 2005 Quote QuoteThere must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. A Beech 18? Nope, your the 1st! Good luck! Really???? I must be soooo smart!! Thanks for all of the input, folks. I've woken up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #13 November 16, 2005 Buy a Big Plane...? Too bad that the reality of the current costs to do so seem to outweigh the optimism, enthusiasm, energy and willingness that many individuals and clubs and skydiving schools are prepared to invest , into such an aircraft ... All the more reason to be grateful and supportive of all the places who DO Own Fast climbing comfortable and safe jumpships... Nowadays I can barely invest/buy jumptickets.... BUT if you do get a plane I'll buy one from you..... Good Luck.. (The easy part is "getting the idea" .. making it happen can take much much more...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #14 November 16, 2005 Take a look at the economics on something like a PAC750 xl. It supposedly runs almost as cheap as a Cessna (especially empty on those trips between DZ's). Down side is it's not "BIG"... but it would still be a welcome visitor for jumpers at most Cessna DZ's (also being a new plane there's a little novelty factor to them still). The DZ themselves might make about as much out of it as they would a Cessna too so there might be less objection to one visiting (I say "might" because I'm going off the advertising blurb). They're all new with financing available on them and things are presumably less likely to go wrong on them. Of course you will have to go to the back of a queue to get one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #15 November 16, 2005 Generally, dropzones that fly small planes do so because that's the plane that makes most economical sense for their operation. Generally, a dropzone only flying a 182 will not have the customer base to fill a larger plane. Gemerally, if a dropzone had the customer base to fill a larger plane, they'd buy one. Exceptions apply. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #16 November 16, 2005 QuoteBuy a large but not insanely expensive plane This is the first flaw in your plan. Actually, it's also the last flaw in your plan. Pretty much the plan was doomed once your typed those words. It's like this plan: What if you could caputre bigfoot, and take him on a worldwide publicity tour? The proceeds would pay for the travel, and since you don't have to pay bigfoot (just feed him), you could make yoruself some money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #17 November 16, 2005 Quote Here's the idea: Buy a large but not insanely expensive plane such as a Beech 18, make the circuit of regional Cessna drop zones. Make enough money to make the payments and maintenance on the plane and a little extra. Pay off the plane. Here's the question: There must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. Do any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I know that it's too big a question to answer on the forum, but I thought someone might have already done the legwork on such an idea. If I ever win big big money I would buy an efficently turbine a/c and lease it out to my local little dz to break even or make a little cash. Right now that would be a new PAC750, a converted turbine single otter or maybe even a twin otter. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrancoR 0 #18 November 16, 2005 Thats preety much what the pink skyvan does. http://pink.at except they are not a Beech 18. I think you could call Jan Wildgrubers Beech 99 the same concept. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #19 November 16, 2005 Quote Here's the idea: Buy a large but not insanely expensive plane such as a Beech 18, make the circuit of regional Cessna drop zones. Make enough money to make the payments and maintenance on the plane and a little extra. Pay off the plane. Here's the question: There must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. Do any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I know that it's too big a question to answer on the forum, but I thought someone might have already done the legwork on such an idea. The best way to make a little bit of money in aviation is to start with a lot. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Broke 0 #20 November 16, 2005 QuoteGenerally, dropzones that fly small planes do so because that's the plane that makes most economical sense for their operation. Generally, a dropzone only flying a 182 will not have the customer base to fill a larger plane. Gemerally, if a dropzone had the customer base to fill a larger plane, they'd buy one. Exceptions apply. _Am Also with some DZs isn't there an issue about runway length... I am not sure what the specifics are but dosen't generally a larger airplane need a longer runway for takeoff and landing.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #21 November 16, 2005 That's very aircraft-specific. I'm no general aviation buff but for example, twin Otters are known for their short take off and landing abilities and their ability to take-off and land on unimproved surfaces. Cessna Caravans (the one I've been in) also had an extremely short take off, although that's not really a "big" plane. More like medium sized for the skydiving world.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eule 0 #22 November 17, 2005 QuoteThere must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. One that comes immediately to mind is Mike Mullins. He has a King Air - not a huge plane, but he has hot-rodded it out to get to altitude fast. Really fast. He uses it at his own dropzone, and also tours around other dropzones with it. It was very popular when he brought it to a local 182 DZ one weekend this spring. QuoteDo any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I've pondered basic DZ economics by figuring that a jump ticket is pretty close to the marginal cost of putting one more jumper up. In other words, the profit margin on an individual jump ticket is small. It's also probably true that many (most?) DZ's don't plan on having full loads of fun jumpers all the time - they probably plan on each load having a certain number of tandems or AFF/IAD/SL students that will make them more money. I haven't gone very far with it because clearly DZs can make money, but I am semi-curious as to the actual numbers. A slight twist on it is to have something like an Otter and rent it out to DZs that already have "big" planes, on days when their "big" plane is down. I saw that happen a couple of weekends ago at a DZ that has an Otter that was getting new engines put on it - they brought in another Otter to keep things moving. Just looking at pictures on the net of what a Beech 18 is, I might suggest you get something a tad newer. What you want is the airplane equivalent of a Honda Accord or a Buick Regal or a Ford Crown Vic. Something that they made thousands of, that every A&P guy knows how to work on, and that has relatively cheap and plentiful parts. A 182 is probably a good example of this for a "small" plane. Even with all that, if there are some common things that break on the plane you pick and they aren't too heavy or huge, you might take spares with you, or maybe keep them at home with someone who can FedEx them to you as needed. This way, when it breaks, all you have to do is hand the spare part to a local A&P guy and have him change it out. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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jimmytavino 16 #13 November 16, 2005 Buy a Big Plane...? Too bad that the reality of the current costs to do so seem to outweigh the optimism, enthusiasm, energy and willingness that many individuals and clubs and skydiving schools are prepared to invest , into such an aircraft ... All the more reason to be grateful and supportive of all the places who DO Own Fast climbing comfortable and safe jumpships... Nowadays I can barely invest/buy jumptickets.... BUT if you do get a plane I'll buy one from you..... Good Luck.. (The easy part is "getting the idea" .. making it happen can take much much more...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #14 November 16, 2005 Take a look at the economics on something like a PAC750 xl. It supposedly runs almost as cheap as a Cessna (especially empty on those trips between DZ's). Down side is it's not "BIG"... but it would still be a welcome visitor for jumpers at most Cessna DZ's (also being a new plane there's a little novelty factor to them still). The DZ themselves might make about as much out of it as they would a Cessna too so there might be less objection to one visiting (I say "might" because I'm going off the advertising blurb). They're all new with financing available on them and things are presumably less likely to go wrong on them. Of course you will have to go to the back of a queue to get one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 November 16, 2005 Generally, dropzones that fly small planes do so because that's the plane that makes most economical sense for their operation. Generally, a dropzone only flying a 182 will not have the customer base to fill a larger plane. Gemerally, if a dropzone had the customer base to fill a larger plane, they'd buy one. Exceptions apply. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 November 16, 2005 QuoteBuy a large but not insanely expensive plane This is the first flaw in your plan. Actually, it's also the last flaw in your plan. Pretty much the plan was doomed once your typed those words. It's like this plan: What if you could caputre bigfoot, and take him on a worldwide publicity tour? The proceeds would pay for the travel, and since you don't have to pay bigfoot (just feed him), you could make yoruself some money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #17 November 16, 2005 Quote Here's the idea: Buy a large but not insanely expensive plane such as a Beech 18, make the circuit of regional Cessna drop zones. Make enough money to make the payments and maintenance on the plane and a little extra. Pay off the plane. Here's the question: There must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. Do any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I know that it's too big a question to answer on the forum, but I thought someone might have already done the legwork on such an idea. If I ever win big big money I would buy an efficently turbine a/c and lease it out to my local little dz to break even or make a little cash. Right now that would be a new PAC750, a converted turbine single otter or maybe even a twin otter. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #18 November 16, 2005 Thats preety much what the pink skyvan does. http://pink.at except they are not a Beech 18. I think you could call Jan Wildgrubers Beech 99 the same concept. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #19 November 16, 2005 Quote Here's the idea: Buy a large but not insanely expensive plane such as a Beech 18, make the circuit of regional Cessna drop zones. Make enough money to make the payments and maintenance on the plane and a little extra. Pay off the plane. Here's the question: There must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. Do any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I know that it's too big a question to answer on the forum, but I thought someone might have already done the legwork on such an idea. The best way to make a little bit of money in aviation is to start with a lot. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #20 November 16, 2005 QuoteGenerally, dropzones that fly small planes do so because that's the plane that makes most economical sense for their operation. Generally, a dropzone only flying a 182 will not have the customer base to fill a larger plane. Gemerally, if a dropzone had the customer base to fill a larger plane, they'd buy one. Exceptions apply. _Am Also with some DZs isn't there an issue about runway length... I am not sure what the specifics are but dosen't generally a larger airplane need a longer runway for takeoff and landing.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #21 November 16, 2005 That's very aircraft-specific. I'm no general aviation buff but for example, twin Otters are known for their short take off and landing abilities and their ability to take-off and land on unimproved surfaces. Cessna Caravans (the one I've been in) also had an extremely short take off, although that's not really a "big" plane. More like medium sized for the skydiving world.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #22 November 17, 2005 QuoteThere must be dozens of people out there who have had the same idea. One that comes immediately to mind is Mike Mullins. He has a King Air - not a huge plane, but he has hot-rodded it out to get to altitude fast. Really fast. He uses it at his own dropzone, and also tours around other dropzones with it. It was very popular when he brought it to a local 182 DZ one weekend this spring. QuoteDo any of you have a financial model for determining the workability of such an idea that you can send to me? I've pondered basic DZ economics by figuring that a jump ticket is pretty close to the marginal cost of putting one more jumper up. In other words, the profit margin on an individual jump ticket is small. It's also probably true that many (most?) DZ's don't plan on having full loads of fun jumpers all the time - they probably plan on each load having a certain number of tandems or AFF/IAD/SL students that will make them more money. I haven't gone very far with it because clearly DZs can make money, but I am semi-curious as to the actual numbers. A slight twist on it is to have something like an Otter and rent it out to DZs that already have "big" planes, on days when their "big" plane is down. I saw that happen a couple of weekends ago at a DZ that has an Otter that was getting new engines put on it - they brought in another Otter to keep things moving. Just looking at pictures on the net of what a Beech 18 is, I might suggest you get something a tad newer. What you want is the airplane equivalent of a Honda Accord or a Buick Regal or a Ford Crown Vic. Something that they made thousands of, that every A&P guy knows how to work on, and that has relatively cheap and plentiful parts. A 182 is probably a good example of this for a "small" plane. Even with all that, if there are some common things that break on the plane you pick and they aren't too heavy or huge, you might take spares with you, or maybe keep them at home with someone who can FedEx them to you as needed. This way, when it breaks, all you have to do is hand the spare part to a local A&P guy and have him change it out. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
