How long?

[Superman32 0]

At my DZ, if someone is landing out, manifest calls for a head count even before everybody touches the ground and simultaneously ask for volunteers to go pick up person that landed out.
If there is a reserve ride, they're on top of you like white on rice -- its very comforting

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Superman32 0]

Never rely on backups (except for the reserve ), that is what I've been taught about skydiving, i.e. don't wait for your instructor to pull for you in AFF, don't wait for the cypress or the rsl to pull, etc., so why would you wait for help if you are injured?
Cell phones are so tiny that they can easy fit in any pocket without hassle. I just don't see why people choose to leave them in their lockers and cars when they can be your quickest lifeline.

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I was landing in the student area in DeLand. I think it would have taken me longer to get help had I just sat down- not sure if you've been to DeLand but you can't see the student area from the dz (well hardly at all if any).

Who is responsible for the students? We always have a ground attendant for students. If there is none, no student is going up.

Licensed skydivers taking care about each other and we do take care about our students. It's a club :).

[christelsabine 1]

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In Slovakia they have a very good system.
Whenyou register to jump you get a laminated card with your name ect on it.
To manifest you put this card and your jump ticket on a board for the load you want to get on.
When you land you remove your card. If a card is still there two loads later the manifest starts pageing the jumper and their friends to find out if there is a problem.

That's a fine idea. If it ever works. I was at a Pink Boogie somewhere in Germany. They had same card sysem. I landed far out, just in a clearing of a forrest. Landing uphill, I broke my leg. It took about 45 minutes. A lady with a dog found me. I was not even missed at the DZ, I saw the skyvan going up and down over me several times. That lady arranged all for emergency. I never saw one single face of that DZ.

OK. I've never been there before. I knew nobody but, talked to many others while packing, entering the skyvan, whatever you do on a boogie. Surely, I will never go back again to that place.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Broke 0]

I am going into this with an almost worst case scenarion idea. Worst case the jumper is dead, almost worstcase... well jumper isn't dead yet. For a victim of mass trauma there is what is refered to the golden hour in other words a one hour period of time to get them to the nearest trauma center for the most favorable outcome. So I would say that earlier is better to start looking for a jumper in a less than ideal situation. To start looking 45 minutes after the fact is far to late for favorable conditions should this individual be found alive after that amount of time.
Lets say that this jumper is not searched for untill 45 minutes after they go missing. If they were found instantly that would give an ambualnce 15 minutesd to get this victim to a trauma center for the most favorable outcome. For the most part if you are lucky there will be a five to ten minute responce time, and then whatever the scene time is. C-spinal precautions, long spineboard and maybe some traction splinting right there that puts us over one hour.
Non e bene

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Broke 0]

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hmmm.. interesting reading the above. I landed kind of out once due to being blown back over the DZ by the wind. I was fine but took about 10 or 15 minutes trying to get my canopy out of the tree it had become entangled in (i'd landed in a little dirt road between a bunch of trees). When i got back to the hangar they were just about to send the plane up to look for me (having sent a car that couldn't find me because they sent it down the wrong road!). We don't jump with cellphones but it did lead to a discussion that maybe we should...

(p.s. i should emphasize the wind had picked up quite a bit since we took off - I didn't jump again that day obviously)

Do you jump in SC that story sounds familiar. An out landing on a tree lined "road" was it a grassy road with a ditch in the middle?

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[bob.dino 1]

Out by two letters; she jumps in SA not SC.


(psst: clicking on her profile would've told you that )

[calledisrael 0]

i have only jumped at three dzs (all in texas) and watched similar scenarios at two of them. in both cases, people were watching who landed, and noting it, and watching for off landings/mals. they both did a great job of knowing where everyone was and sending the truck after people.

when i had an accident and off landing on aff, they noticed, paid attention, and sent the truck - and help was there within minutes, before myself and my instructor managed to get up and get too far out of the field where we landed. the DZO and S&TA were both involved very quickly. i had two friends doing tandems on the load, and they were also cared for in the midst of the staff trying to figure out what had happened to us.

life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.
(helen keller)

[Broke 0]

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Out by two letters; she jumps in SA not SC.


(psst: clicking on her profile would've told you that )

Cheater

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Tonto 1]

It kinda took me by surprise. He was in a flat spin on his back. I was expecting him to ball up - as I'd taught him and attempt to recover. There was no main deployment, only the reserve, and my position in the flock would have made dumping out potentially hazardous to others.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Paige 0]

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I was landing in the student area in DeLand. I think it would have taken me longer to get help had I just sat down- not sure if you've been to DeLand but you can't see the student area from the dz (well hardly at all if any).

Who is responsible for the students? We always have a ground attendant for students. If there is none, no student is going up.

Licensed skydivers taking care about each other and we do take care about our students. It's a club :).

I wasn't a student just landing in the student area (please note I know I'm still very much a student in my skydiving skills & exp. Just not in the still on student status sense.).

It's nice to know that others are looking out for eachother

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Orange1 0]

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Out by two letters; she jumps in SA not SC.


(psst: clicking on her profile would've told you that )

lol - broke - i think it was bob who taught me to check profiles after assuming that someone in Oz was from the US and about to hit winter! (apologies tonto for off-topic sideline)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[airtwardo 7]

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A jumper reports they witnessed an unstable reserve deployment at 9000ft during a dive.

If I was the jumper who witnessed it, I'd probably try to keep an eye on them and land out with either the jumper or their main.

I'm not sure that would be safe with a 9000ft reserve deployment. But if I thought it was, I'd probably just have dumped my main when I saw them go, and then stuck around with them.

***

Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner, no more calls!

I never ceases to amaze me how many of 'us' just focus on the dive and forget that the ultimate priority is beer call at the end of the day with EVERYONE attending!

I've dumped high several times to follow someone down in similar scenarios, Especially like this one where the probability of landing out is almost certain.

What if it were YOU on a reserve, off in the toolies, injured with no one knowing where you are...or even if they're LOOKING for you?


...And why do so many people head for the LZ after a chop at 2500'??? A little help with the main & free bag is ALWAYS appreciated.

We GOTTA watch out for each other...!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[firstime 0]

***At that point an airplane should be dispatched to check the full wind line, and then to search off the wind line. The DZ should also dispatch a few people in cars to check obvious open fields and roadways where the jumper might have landed.

I have to agree with you Tom, because it happened to me at the Ranch, and both otters flew over me, the second pass Julie flapped her wings to indicate to me that she spotted my locale hence DZ personel
came to pick me up all within ten minutes.

[thepollster 0]

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...And why do so many people head for the LZ after a chop at 2500'??? A little help with the main & free bag is ALWAYS appreciated.

We GOTTA watch out for each other...!

Please don't advise people to land out to recover your gear. Landing out can be dangerous, and I would rather lose a main and freebag than have someone hurt trying to recover it. A better plan is to try to watch where it lands, land at the DZ and use a vehicle (if needed) to recover it.

Maybe I read that wrong. I think if you see someone landing out under a reserve, you should land near them if safe. If it isn't a safe landing area and you have the altitude to make it back and direct help to the scene, yhat would probably be the better choice.

I also am aware that there are people fully capable of safely following gear, but they aren't the one's who will be reading this advice.

[RhondaLea 4]

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For my incident in DeLand, the manifest girl never sent my friend Eric out in the truck as I told her too since I was landing in the student area.

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I also did this with my buddy who drives the truck but he got swooped up in work right before my load and wasn't reminded by manifest

If manifest told him to go, and he went off and did something else, there'd be no way for manifest to know he wasn't where he was supposed to be.

I've never known DeLand not to send a truck out to the student area when someone is landing there.

What I'm saying is, I don't think the problem was manifest.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Whenever I have had an out landing my cell phone has been ringing more or less when I hit the ground. If necessary a car has been sent. I would like to believe that this is standard.

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Cell phones are so tiny that they can easy fit in any pocket without hassle. I just don't see why people choose to leave them in their lockers and cars when they can be your quickest lifeline.

Sometimes DZ.com provides great insights to what new jumpers think ;)

Ok - I just have to ask, would you jump without a cell phone?

I can hardly wait until we have socially mandatory transponders for jumpers.

BTW, for the original question - look for the jumper immediately.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Paige 0]

Let me clarify. I told my buddy in advance to be nice so he wouldn't have to rush, this in no way excuses manifest from not doing their job. Manifest never alerted him to picking me up as they are supposed to when they have been told jumpers are landing in the student area.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[RhondaLea 4]

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Let me clarify. I told my buddy in advance to be nice so he wouldn't have to rush, this in no way excuses manifest from not doing their job. Manifest never alerted him to picking me up as they are supposed to when they have been told jumpers are landing in the student area.

I sincerely hope you talked to someone (i.e., Mike) about this. It's not standard practice, and it should never happen.

And my answer to the original post is: "immediately."

There's no excuse for not hunting down and finding an MIA skydiver as soon as s/he is known to be missing.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Paige 0]

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Let me clarify. I told my buddy in advance to be nice so he wouldn't have to rush, this in no way excuses manifest from not doing their job. Manifest never alerted him to picking me up as they are supposed to when they have been told jumpers are landing in the student area.

I sincerely hope you talked to someone (i.e., Mike) about this. It's not standard practice, and it should never happen.

And my answer to the original post is: "immediately."

There's no excuse for not hunting down and finding an MIA skydiver as soon as s/he is known to be missing.

rl

I've been trying to talk to Mike about this for a year but I think he's under the impression that I want to discuss a portion of my accident that doesn't relate to Skydive DeLand (i.e. canopy collapse, what could I have done different, etc). The next time I see Bob, I am going to tell him of my troubles with Mike and alert him to the situation.

Thanks for your advice on speaking with someone Rhonda. I didn't know if I was being overly sensitive or overreacting.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I sincerely hope you talked to someone (i.e., Mike) about this. It's not standard practice, and it should never happen.

I've held that job at that DZ. If a non-student lands in the student area, picking them up is secondary to catching tandems, picking up jumpers who had off field landings, etc. Students are a higher priority.

I agree with you; the DZ should allocate resources to find missing jumpers as soon as they are known to be missing.

[airtwardo 7]

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...And why do so many people head for the LZ after a chop at 2500'??? A little help with the main & free bag is ALWAYS appreciated.

We GOTTA watch out for each other...!

Please don't advise people to land out to recover your gear. Landing out can be dangerous, and I would rather lose a main and freebag than have someone hurt trying to recover it. A better plan is to try to watch where it lands, land at the DZ and use a vehicle (if needed) to recover it.

Maybe I read that wrong. I think if you see someone landing out under a reserve, you should land near them if safe. If it isn't a safe landing area and you have the altitude to make it back and direct help to the scene, what would probably be the better choice.

I also am aware that there are people fully capable of safely following gear, but they aren't the ones who will be reading this advice.

***

I understand your point, I perhaps should have qualified my comment by saying to so safely...

BUT...if you have a C license and can't land anywhere but the dropzone, you should consider taking some canopy classes because you're not qualified for that rating.

In the above scenario, the jumper is open at 9 grand...'what if' no one CAN get a bead on where he is landing. 'What if' he injured or knocked out, which IS a likelihood since you don't often SEE a reserve open at 9 grand...

Surely if you can't land your canopy where you want to, you shouldn't be following someone down...
If you can't land standing up in a back yard, middle of a street, or say a parking lot...you have other issues to address.

I'm a little old school, and from your D # I see you've been around too...can you honestly say under special circumstances,(9000' reserve) given YOU'RE experience, you wouldn't follow someone down that you thought may be in trouble?

As far as following gear down....
Again I agree with you that if someone can't do so safely...don't try.

I'm not asking anyone to follow MY gear down, I do that myself...but I also follow OTHER peoples gear down...Guess I'm 'cleared' to do that.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tbrown 26]

The glide ratio of the reserve should easily be better than the flock, so he should have been able to make it back - but when he never did, we (his fellow flockers) launched our own search. The DI continued operations as normal.

[thepollster 0]

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I'm a little old school, and from your D # I see you've been around too...can you honestly say under special circumstances,(9000' reserve) given YOU'RE experience, you wouldn't follow someone down that you thought may be in trouble?

I would, and do, follow people and gear down. However, I don't think it is safe do so. We all make choices, and if someone gets hurt following my cutaway main down, and they get hurt, I am not going to be thankful they retrieved my things, but I will be upset they got hurt.

If you see someone under a reserve and can help them, either by having a cell phone, or first aid training, I would say land with them. If you can't really help, I would say land at the DZ and direct them to the jumper so help can get there ASAP.

[Airman1270 0]

You guys are bringing back memories... Early February, 1992, over Ellijay, Georgia. About seven of us on a Cessna 411 doing a sunset load. I should have landed out but I thought I could make the airport, and landed in low trees just a few feet short of the grass at the end of the runway. Meanwhile, it was cold and nobody was outside watching. The others landed and went into the hangar, while I slowly extracted myself and my main from the trees as the daylight faded. (Side note - I was fairly new to the DZ and nobody noticed me missing.)

After awhile it occurred to me that nobody knew where I was. I watched the cars leaving as I walked back up the runway. As I approached the hangar I saw one last car turning out of the parking lot. His headlights illuminated me and he abruptly stopped and apologized for failing to notice my absence. They were still talking about it several months later. No hard feelings, these things happen. But I wonder why nobody wondered why my car was still parked there.

Cheers,
Jon S.