Size of Main vs. Reserve

[Stomusky 0]

Hello,
As I am looking for my own gear, I noticed some people have larger Reserve compared to Main.
But I also noticed some people have smaller Reserve compared to Main.

I'm seeing that if you have 170 or larger main, you have a reserve that's smaller. If the main is 150, the reserve is 150. If the main is smaller than 150, I saw a trend that most would have larger reserve compared to main.

Can I please ask if this is a reasonable understanding?

[CornishChris 5]

In my limited experience what the rig is made with will vary from what it ends up with a few years down the line. I had a 170 main and a 160 reserve. Now I have a 150 main and a 160 reserve as I have downsized mains but not container.

I wouldn't get too twisted up in it except that when choosing a rig ensure you are happy flying a higher loaded reserve (if it is smaller), as well as considering the main. When I got my first rig one I was looking at had a 190 main and a 160 reserve but I wasn't happy with the 160 so I shopped around.

And of course - speak to instructors and ignore everything I say.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Superman32 0]

Would yoy want to jump something smaller, higher WL, and f111 for the very first time when you may be hurt, close to the ground and probably landing out?

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[HydroGuy 0]

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Would yoy want to jump something smaller, higher WL, and f111 for the very first time when you may be hurt, close to the ground and probably landing out?

PD has reserve canopies set up for demos (bridle attachment point added). I've had two hop and pops with PD176R's and two with PD160R's. If and when I ever do have to chop one, you can be rest assured it won't be my first time flying or landing that canopy.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[mdrejhon 8]

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In my limited experience what the rig is made with will vary from what it ends up with a few years down the line. I had a 170 main and a 160 reserve. Now I have a 150 main and a 160 reserve as I have downsized mains but not container.

Like you, my reserve is(was) smaller on the first rig. My main is a 170 but my reserve is a 150.

Normally, reserve should be bigger -- and it will be as I downsize the main, since I don't think I ever want to ever downsize the reserve below a PD143R or so.

When I eventually downsize my main, it will be based on being able to meet a wide variety of recommended skills (Billyvon, Scott Miller, Brian Germain, and my dropzone people). I'll likely eventually replace the Raven Micro reserve (ugh) with a nice PD or similiar good model -- I'll feel safer under a PD143R than a Raven Micro 150 for sure.

Same advice applies -- talk to instructors.

[Andy9o8 2]

I jump a 170 main (a Pilot 168) and a PD 160 reserve. I got the PD 160 back when I used to jump a Sabre (1) 170, figuring the higher wingloading on the reserve was a reasonable tradeoff on less volume, bulk & weight -- I'd just be extra-careful if landing the reserve. That was a couple of years ago, when I got back into the sport after a pretty long layoff. It was the 1st square reserve I'd ever owned or jumped (so I was still thinking with "round reserve" mentality) & I don't think I adequately educated myself on the issue before making the choice. I no longer think that was the best decision & choice for me at that point, when I had lost so much currency. If I had it to do again, I would have gotten a larger reserve, on the theory that I'd rather have a reserve that's less likely to land me way too hard if I'm injured during a jump & can't use my brakes to flare.

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

One of the reasons for that trend is that a lot experienced jumpers fly small hp mains. The 7 cell f111 reserves do not land as well as the mains at high wingloadings, so they jump bigger reserves. On the other side it is normally the lower experience jumper that jumps mains that are 170 and up. At a low experience level you should have a reserve a close to your main or a bit bigger. Most low time jumpers have never jumped a 7 cell f111 canopy.If your reserve was smaller than what you are used to jumping, it could turn out to be more than you bargained for.

[matthewcline 0]

In addition to the comments already made, some people bought the smaller reserves so thier container would look cool.

I chose my reserve based on my weight at exit and the fact I wanted it to open, at my wing loading, at the highest DZ in the US (Colorado) even though I don't ever get there to jump, one day I might and that will be the day I have a terminal openning and I didn't want it to blow up. The Raven 1 (181 square feet) is able to open at my weight at 5000 MSL while at terminal velocity.

I think a lot of people forget the worst case scenario when buying and go with cool factor first.

Talk with your instructor and several canopy makers then make a conservative purchase. It is, after all, the last shot you have when you use it.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[FrogNog 1]

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I'm seeing that if you have 170 or larger main, you have a reserve that's smaller. If the main is 150, the reserve is 150. If the main is smaller than 150, I saw a trend that most would have larger reserve compared to main.

Can you reexamine the profiles you looked at and see how jump numbers play into this?

I can't just say "people below 150 square feet have lots of experience" because that doesn't necessarily hold true for very light people. But I think if you look at jump numbers and reserve vs. main size, you may find similar results to what you saw above, and that might tell you something.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[tso-d_chris 0]

When buying gear, pick an appropriately sized reserve first, selected for worst case scenarios. Then, select a container that will properly fit that appropriately sized reserve.

Generally speaking, today's mains are going to perform better than today's reserves at high wing loadings. When in doubt, Go Big (TM). This is especially true when choosing a reserve.

For Great Deals on Gear

[mnealtx 0]

I'll pass on the advice I was given when I was looking at new gear.

I'm obviously not an instructor so all the usual conditions about taking my advice with a grain of salt applies.

Reserve: Square footage roughly equal to exit weight

Main: Square footage in the range of .8 - 1.0 lbs/sq. ft

Container: Appropriately sized for main/reserve.

In my case, it was a PDR 218 ft^2, Sabre II 230 ft^2 and a Vector 3 container sized appropriately for the reserve. The main fits into the container well, and I have room to go down to a 210, and possibly a 190, if/when I get to that point.

Good luck!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Canuck 0]

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Reserve: Square footage roughly equal to exit weight

Main: Square footage in the range of .8 - 1.0 lbs/sq. ft

It really makes no sense to jump a reserve smaller than your main. If a 230 is as small as you're comfortable with, then you definitely don't want to be under a 218 when the shit hits the fan.

As a pretty good rule of thumb, keep the reserve AT LEAST the same size as the main.

Now, we're talking about some big canopies here, so I'm sure you'll be just fine. This is more for advice to the original poster.

Canuck

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Reserve: Square footage roughly equal to exit weight

Main: Square footage in the range of .8 - 1.0 lbs/sq. ft

It really makes no sense to jump a reserve smaller than your main. If a 230 is as small as you're comfortable with, then you definitely don't want to be under a 218 when the shit hits the fan.

As a pretty good rule of thumb, keep the reserve AT LEAST the same size as the main.

Now, we're talking about some big canopies here, so I'm sure you'll be just fine. This is more for advice to the original poster.

Canuck

No arguments from me - the final sizing was hashed out between myself and the dealer based on a LOT of PM's back and forth.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[RevJim 0]

Some pretty good advice in this thread, so I'll add my $.02.
I ALWAYS suggest that jumpers (that ask, and some that don't) stay at no higher than a 1 to 1 wing loading for their reserve. I figure if they are asking, they don't need anything smaller. Also, if they are really light, where exit weight would be at 150 or less, I say 150 to 160 sq feet or larger. Smaller is just too twitchy (again, for those that ask. Those that don't ask are either experienced enough to choose for themselves, or probably wouldn't listen anyway...)

I've had a buch of them ask me about my reserve, and I have no reason to lie to them. I jump a PD126R that I load somewhere between 1.6 and 1.7 to 1, depending on meals recently eaten. I've been forced to land this canopy twice now. Once (first time) on my first night jump, pitch black, NO MOON, and once on an out landing, low pull, while jumping a Bird-Man suit, downwind, in a front yard, between a row of pine trees and a house. I make it a point to tell those asking that I make no bones about it, this canopy will KILL me, if I do not LAND it. If it lands ME, I'll be lucky to survive. That deters most from going small, at least too soon.

Stay light on the f111. It just might save your life.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[seejanefall 0]

I go by the rule to get a reserve that will have the best chance to get you to the ground safely if you are unconcious under canopy. If you are not at the skill level to jump a 150 as a main, why would you want to have it as a reserve?

_____________
PMS #394

[jimmytavino 16]

used to jump a 175 reserve,,,,,never needed to use it....
Upsized the reserve about 4 years ago...Had a terminal opening on it this past summer when i pulled silver left handed after a right shoulder dislocation on exit...First reserve ride in 25 years and 1st ever on a ram air reserve....real acceptable landing.

[Martini 0]

If it's any help my rigs have reserves that are 25-30% larger than the mains. In my case the w/l is moderately high but typical of smaller canopies. If you plan on getting a reserve smaller than your main, as is often the case with larger canopies and lower wingloadings, you would be wise to invest the very small amount it takes to demo a reserve at the size you are planning on buying. Please consult reliable jumpers at your DZ for specifics.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[dharma1976 0]

My reserve is actually smaller than my main...but I did take the time to go and demo it first...

in fact I am going to demo it again this weekend

Edited to say that the main is a 129 Crossfire2 and the reserve is a PD 126R

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[gemini 0]

Another consideration when ordering a main and reserve is "How will they fly together?"

If you have a two out situation with two different canopy sizes, they may have a tendency to go to a downplane rather than fly side by side or front to back.

Rule of thumb is main and reserve should be nearly the same sizes.

That slightly smaller container you're after may not be worth the additional risk.

Blue skies,

Jim

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks, Jim...why is it that every time you post, I learn or re-learn something?
Good stuff, as always.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[gemini 0]

Dunno, but if you hand around a dz long enough and listen to the old guys you can pick up some amazing "lessons learned the hard way!" tidbits of info even from the crazy ones!

Blue skies,

Jim

[popsjumper 2]

Funny you should mention "old guy"...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dragon2 2]

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Another consideration when ordering a main and reserve is "How will they fly together?"

If you have a two out situation with two different canopy sizes, they may have a tendency to go to a downplane rather than fly side by side or front to back.

Rule of thumb is main and reserve should be nearly the same sizes.

I keep hearing that but I personally think that's nonsense. Not necessarily that your reserve should be of similar size, but the reasoning behind it. I HAD a downplane once, with a manta 288 and a pd 256 (253? whatever) reserve. Close enough in size, and they still downplaned after flying in a biplane for 1000ft. You're telling me a PD 126 will play nice with a Vengeance 120? I very much doubt it. I personally choose my reserve canopies based on what I'd want to land in a difficult situation, because I think that there is WAY more change of me being under "just" my reserve (so far, 1 downplane vs 3 malfunctions), and because I doubt that if I HAVE a 2-out the canopies are going to play nice anyway. I just want a reserve I'm comfy with. That isn't even limited to size, I got rid of my Micron 175 (ChuteShop) reserve because I pounded in (WL .8), I like my Transfair 128 (WL 1.2) much better. Don't want to try a Tempo 120 but wouldn't mind a PD113 or Techno 115 at all.

Untill I see some stable 2 outs with newer canopies instead of the large old F111 canopies they tested with, I'm sticking to this

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[billvon 3,107]

>Rule of thumb is main and reserve should be nearly the same sizes.

Several people have tested this and discovered that even different sized canopies tend to fly well together. Given that most people tend to downsize mains more aggressively nowadays, I do NOT recommend going to a smaller reserve to match the main. My 'main' rig right now has a PD143 and a Nitro 108, which is about what I want when it comes to reserve sizing.

[nicknitro71 0]

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Rule of thumb is main and reserve should be nearly the same sizes.

I strongly disagree. There is no way I am jumping with a 99 reserve and no way I am up-sizing to a 150 main. The smallest I would go on a reserve is around 130-135.

Memento Audere Semper

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