Superfletch 1 #101 December 15, 2005 QuoteThe way superfletch describes what the rig looked like closed, how the closing flaps wouldn't overlap, dosen't surprise me when I found out she had a toggle fire on deployment, it just seems like too much shit crammed in there and something would probably work it way loose. However that is just speculation, based on an educated geuss. AGAIN!!!! Let me fix this and clarify... PEOPLE!! Quit changing the FACTS! A toggle did not fire on deployment, do I have to repeat this? She fired a toggle while doing rear riser turns after her canopy deployed WITHOUT incident! That makes your guess VERY UNEDUCATED!!! Everyone keeps twisting the facts little by little it's a wonder that this is still a skydiving accident at all... I'm surprised it isn't a bungee jumping/skydiving/rock climbing/base jumping accident... Sheeesh... Everyone is so quick to judge about the words Shayna has chosen when describing her accident but don't give a second thought about the words they use to reiterate it. It comes down to this... to date the Main/Reserve size combinations have not yet been determined as fact on this website... in which case... quit fucking commenting on it because you don't have a clue what your talking about. rant over... for now... Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #102 December 15, 2005 (But a boyfriend/FJI combination is fucking wrong.) sorry,slightly off subject:Do you think this is true for riggers servicing of the girlfriends skydiving gear? One step further : rigger servicing ex-girlfriends skydiving gear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #103 December 15, 2005 Thats a little different. It might be a liability issue for you though if there is a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #104 December 15, 2005 QuoteShe doesn't have health insurance, and even if she did, it probably wouldn't cover most of the expenses because skydiving IS a dangerous sport, therefore insurance companies often (if not always) will not pay for medical expenses incurred as a result of skydiving. I compressed all 5 of my lower lumbar vertabra in a fairly significant skydiving accident back in 1998. My health care coverage paid-out and covered exactly as the "standard" policy perameters had called for. A good friend of mine had a relatively significant skydiving accident just this past summer too (tib/fib & hip) ...No problems with his coverage disbursements either. Totally different employers, positions/professions, insurance companies, and limits of liability etc. I've in fact known of MANY (too many, unfortunately ) skydiving related accidents resulting in injury where the jumper WAS covered, and the healthcare coverage paid out with absolutely no issues, or problems at all. Just to illustrate FIRST HAND that this statement is not necessarily correct (and often misunderstood, or just "assumed to be the case") is all. Hope that things turn out okay, regardless, for your niece and your entire family. All other "implications" and "furor" over this incident (and its resulting publicity) as it is, aside. Blues Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #105 December 15, 2005 QuoteDo you think this is true for riggers servicing of the girlfriends skydiving gear? One step further : rigger servicing ex-girlfriends skydiving gear? I don't see any problem with this. Performing singular "mechanical" (static and "solitary" in nature, that does NOT involve the S/O's or even "ex" S/O's on-going INTERACTION to accomplish) tasks, are an entirely different matter than instructing, which is an on-going and dynamic set of events/requirement.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #106 December 16, 2005 quit fucking commenting on it because you don't have a clue what your talking about. <<<<<<< ------------------------------------------------- Oh geee! so it wasn't the pink reflex with a Sabre2 190 and a PDR 126, that you said "NO" whan asked what you thought?_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superfletch 1 #107 December 16, 2005 It was a Pink Reflex with a Sabre2 190 but I couldn't tell you the size of the reserve... Someone earlier said that a container sized for a 135 probably contained a 126 reserve... NOW everyone is assuming that it DID contain a 126 reserve and is commenting to that affect... Won't everyone feel a little foolish when they find out it didn't? Hmmm... Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #108 December 16, 2005 It was a Pink Reflex with a Sabre2 190 but I couldn't tell you the size of the reserve... <<<<<<<< ------------------------------------------------ Yet IYO I don't have a clue?_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superfletch 1 #109 December 16, 2005 This incident happened months ago... I don't remember for sure what the reserve size was, what I do remember was that I didn't like the rig and told him I wouldn't jump her with it. You stated in your post that ..."dosen't surprise me when I found out she had a toggle fire on deployment,". That isn't what happened... Since the beginning I have been watching all these posts twist and change after someone completely disassociated with it comments which only makes the next guy up that less informed and all be damned if they don't have a twisted comment to make that makes the next guy even more misinformed. The "don't have a clue" comment I made wasn't even directed to you. It was directed to everyone that was discussing the size of her reserve which hasn't even been determined yet but hasn't disuaded anyone from making obsurd comments to the fact that she shouldn't be jumping a 126 when in reality it will probably be shown that she wasn't. I just lumped that into the same post encompassing the rest of the dz.com people that wanted to harp on that issue. I'm sorry if I confused you by doing that... my mistake. I've just been reading all these post... I believe there are 4 different forums discussing the matter right now. And I have been trying to make sure that everyone is at least discussing the facts rather than misinformation and you'd be surprised how fast they get scewed, twisted and completely changed. Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #110 December 16, 2005 It is very similar to that game in grade school where one person says one thing and by the time it gets around the whole room it is completely different...only in a more high tech way !!Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superfletch 1 #111 December 16, 2005 yeah but in school you couldn't scroll the screen down and reread the post before you responded... comes down to the fact that there's a bunch of lazy bastards out there that don't even care what they're talking about. Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #112 December 16, 2005 Could not agree more!Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverchic 0 #113 December 16, 2005 Chinese whispers maybe? I think this is worse!How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #114 December 16, 2005 QuoteIt comes down to this... to date the Main/Reserve size combinations have not yet been determined as fact on this website... in which case... quit fucking commenting on it because you don't have a clue what your talking about. I recognize the container. It was not sized for a reserve appropriate for a student. Even going a size larger doesn't allow a large enough reserve for a student. The reserve was too small. Withholding the exact size of the reserve from the forums will not change that fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superfletch 1 #115 December 16, 2005 You can recognize the rig all you want... but you still have no idea what reserve was in it... What the hell kind of a statement is that? As far as it not containing an appropriate sized reserve for a student, well, you're probably right. I've never disputed that. I simply do not know what size reserve it did have. I didn't build the rig nor did I pack the reserve or have anything to do with either one of those. I'm sure I could make a few phone calls and find out, but it isn't important enough to me to go to the trouble to find the numbers. I know enough of the facts in this case to make my own informed decisions on which decissions were made in error. And accusing me of withholding the exact size of the reserve from the forums is absurd. As soon as I know for sure, I'll be happy to post that information but until then I'm not about to speculate or guess and allow you people to run with any more uninformed information that you already have. Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I Videographer/Photographer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #116 December 16, 2005 QuoteYou can recognize the rig all you want... but you still have no idea what reserve was in it... What the hell kind of a statement is that? As far as it not containing an appropriate sized reserve for a student, well, you're probably right. I've never disputed that. I simply do not know what size reserve it did have. I didn't build the rig nor did I pack the reserve or have anything to do with either one of those. I'm sure I could make a few phone calls and find out, but it isn't important enough to me to go to the trouble to find the numbers. I know enough of the facts in this case to make my own informed decisions on which decissions were made in error. And accusing me of withholding the exact size of the reserve from the forums is absurd. As soon as I know for sure, I'll be happy to post that information but until then I'm not about to speculate or guess and allow you people to run with any more uninformed information that you already have. Knowing the container gives me a good idea of the reserve size. It doesn't give me the exact size, but it gives me enough info to know it was too small. I've seen a rig or two before. I've never had to open up a small Reflex S series, or similar sized container (such as a Vector3 Micron) to be confident it does not contain a PR-218 or similar reserve. I've not posted anything speculating the exact model or size. I didn't accuse you of withholding info. I simply said the info was being withheld. Unless you are under some sort of obligation to be the one to give the info (which I doubt), you are not the one withholding the info. AFIK, you didn't have anything to do with the jump or the student's training, and bear zero responsibility. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,096 #117 December 16, 2005 >quit fucking commenting on it because you don't have a clue what >your talking about. Good advice. If your post is going to be along the lines of "shut the fuck up" with no further information, do not post it. Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #118 December 16, 2005 QuoteShe doesn't have health insurance, and even if she did, it probably wouldn't cover most of the expenses because skydiving IS a dangerous sport, therefore insurance companies often (if not always) will not pay for medical expenses incurred as a result of skydiving. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I compressed all 5 of my lower lumbar vertabra in a fairly significant skydiving accident back in 1998. My health care coverage paid-out and covered exactly as the "standard" policy perameters had called for. A good friend of mine had a relatively significant skydiving accident just this past summer too (tib/fib & hip) ...No problems with his coverage disbursements either. Totally different employers, positions/professions, insurance companies, and limits of liability etc. I've in fact known of MANY (too many, unfortunately ) skydiving related accidents resulting in injury where the jumper WAS covered, and the healthcare coverage paid out with absolutely no issues, or problems at all. Very very good points to make because I think alot of the uninsured are ASSUMING they won't be covered and not even try to get insurance. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caico.katie 0 #119 December 16, 2005 Several of you have told me that you can get insurance -- and I am very glad that I was mistaken about this one. I was just going on what my State Farm agent had told me, in regards to Shayna and her lack of insurance -- but then, that is State Farm, and they never want to cover anything. I only stay with them because my husband insist -- I have no clue why. Get this, at my dad's funeral our insurance agent shows up and starts trying to talk insurance with me -- I mean, trying to sell me insurance, but that is another issue all together. Please disregard my misinformed comment. As for Shayna not having insurance -- well, I think she just never imagined needing it, and at the place she was -- newly separated from her husband, I don't think she could have afforded insurance -- she probably shouldn't have been "affordinging" the skydiving, but maybe Rick was footing the bills for the jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caico.katie 0 #120 December 16, 2005 I thought everyone would like to know that I heard last night (from Shayna's Grandma, my mom) that Shayna WILL NOT be going on the Oprah show. I don't know if that means she is discontinuing her publicity circuit or not, but I thought you would like to know that she did say "No" to Oprah. As for "the other side of the story" -- why don't some of you rally together and try to get some coverage on the improved safety of skydiving; Statistics do show that skydiving has become a safer sport over the last 15 years: 1/75,000 deaths in 1989 compared to 1/100,000 in 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #121 December 16, 2005 Most of us would rather not get the media involved, period.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #122 December 16, 2005 QuoteSeveral of you have told me that you can get insurance -- and I am very glad that I was mistaken about this one. Check with your local Mutual of Omaha agent and ask for Accident Insurance. Covers me for any kind of accident: *Rock climbing *Skydiving *Snowboarding *Stepping off a curb and breaking my ankle You're right, people should not be skydiving without some kind of health insurance. You just never know when some thing is going to happen.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #123 December 16, 2005 I dont know if anyones really said much about her actual size, but I am curious, with her being 5'5'' and approx 115 to 120 lbs, how big of a reserve should she have been on for her first AFF?Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #124 December 16, 2005 QuoteI dont know if anyones really said much about her actual size, but I am curious, with her being 5'5'' and approx 115 to 120 lbs, how big of a reserve should she have been on for her first AFF? According to PD's website, they recommend nothing smaller than a 176 for a student and 143 for a novice at her weight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #125 December 16, 2005 I know alot of people are being hard on her... but I wish more attention would go on the JM , in my personal opinion (to new to offer skydiver opinion) he basically tried to kill her... I just cant imagine this, since Ive only had great instructors...Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
