Johnnyskydive 0 #1 January 7, 2006 Okay, I'm hesitant to post this.....am not even close to being sure if this is what I want or am going to do. Just had the opportunity present itself and was looking for input from others....namely DZOs or former DZOs. A friend is talking of starting up a DZ. There a no DZs even close by....nearest DZ is 50 miles up the road...and the city has a few skydivers that drive over 3 hrs to the nearest DZ with turbines. In fact the entire state is without a turbine DZ...and most people that jump in the state drive hours to the closest dz with turbines. We're looking into a porter. The DZ 50 miles away only has a 182. It'd be near a military base where the majority of students are coming from for the more distant DZs. He mentioned this idea to me, I told him "thats awesome....I'd love to have a dz that close!!!" He and another guy are looking into costs and all. I start thinking about it.....I have saved up a pretty good amount of money....was in the Military...qualify for a small business loan....would love to be a part of something like that. The other two people looking into it are more experienced skydiving wise.....but I have a pilots license. I don't expect to make all kinds of money...quit my job...move out to the dz or anything. Just help get something started up....help out....and learn some things in the process. Only thing I'd hope is to make enough to make payments on the loan. The land is already there and paid for. All the costs would be in planes, gear, etc (a huge cost I'm seeing quickly). My questions are....well I have so many...I'd actually just like peoples take on this all. What did you do when you started your DZ? How hard's it been...would you not have done it if you could go back in time...etc? I'm sure I've skipped tons of info....but will check often and update as needed. Any info from people with experience or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #2 January 7, 2006 Bob Hallet of skydive Deland and I one had a conversation about the cost of starting up a drop zone and how to do it. He once told me, take a million dollars of your own money and throw it into away, then go borrow a million dollars from someone else and don't make the same mistakes. Good luck, follow your dreams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #3 January 7, 2006 You dont need a million dollars to stat a small C182 DZ, so dont let anyone tell you that. How about find out the demographics of the area you'd like to start your DZ? Have your DZ in an area thats not going to support your drop zone with customers will only lead to it's failer. Then I'd say you should get a tandem rating, since that will be your main money maker for your DZ, if your going to be the one instructing. There plenty used tandem rigs on the market to get you started. Then work on your riggers ticket so you dont have to send out your rigs to get repacks. Find a plane out there at a resonable price and find a local pilot looking to build time, and is insurable to fly your loads for $8 a load, like alot of places do. Then work you ass off from sunrise to sundown every weekend and forget about getting any fun jumps in...... Good luck! Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,458 #4 January 7, 2006 Even a part-time DZ requires a full-time concurrent commitment from just about everyone on the staff. Someone willing to take phone calls and do student scheduling all thru the week, rigging, hanger fees, training, marketing, advertising, etc. If your only financial commitment is going to be the airplane, you won't need a small business loan. If you don't have 3/4 students and 1/4 experienced skydivers, you're going to be operating at breakeven. Edit: Until your first plane maintenance issue, then you're in the red.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #5 January 7, 2006 QuoteA friend is talking of starting up a DZ. This is more of a generic "small business" thing, but maybe it will help. You want to talk to a DZO. If you ask the DZO whose DZ is an hour or even four or five hours away about getting into the business, he or she will probably be reluctant to help create a competitor. But if you ask a DZO several states away, you are more likely to get helped. I realize you're trying to contact a 'far away' DZO here, but not all DZOs "do" the Internet, and those that do might be reluctant to discuss hard numbers in email. A phone call, or visiting the DZ with beer, might work better for this. I wonder if PIA or USPA has any advice for aspiring DZOs. If they have any kind of "best practices" documents, those might help you estimate your costs. You also probably want to talk to an attorney, and for more than just the usual adage to get everything in writing. I don't know the details or the reasons but at a couple of the DZs I know about, the structure of which entity owns the planes, gear, hangar, airport is not simple. This is not done to be sneaky - I _think_ it is done to help limit liability, so one lawsuit can't take _everything_. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. The attorney may also be able to give you some tax advice, or talk to an accountant. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 January 7, 2006 USPA published a series of articles in Parachutist in about 2000 that covered this exact topic. Call them and see if you can get back copies of the series.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #7 January 7, 2006 Thanks for all the feedback so far. I am researching like mad for now. Good point about not wanting to give numbers and what not on the net......might have to make a bit of a trip! Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 January 7, 2006 Location, location, location! Make sure that your new DZ is located near a: military base, college town or major city to ensure a steady flow of students. Make sure that your airfield is easy to find. Help by putting signs/billboards at major corners. Designate a clear parking area and install enough fences to prevent idiots from driving on the runway. Then there are a whole series of issues about keeping the airport owner happy and being a good neighbor. On the subject of being a good neighbor, have a long hard look at local sectionals and IFR approach plates to ensure that you will not be trying to skydive in airspace already used by airliners. Then take a plate of homemade cookies and go have a long chat with local air traffic controllers, especially controllers at the local IFR center. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #9 January 7, 2006 Good thing here is we own the land. 48 acres I am pretty sure (close to that if not). Its allready cleared too. Would have to grate a runway out.....but at least the land would be ours. No neighbors to contend with really either. It's gonna be very close to a military base and a college. So the location would be great! Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #10 January 7, 2006 How are you going to put a runway on 8 acres? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #11 January 7, 2006 QuoteGood thing here is we own the land. 8 acres I am pretty sure (close to that if not). Its allready cleared too. Would have to grate a runway out.....but at least the land would be ours. No neighbors to contend with really either. It's gonna be very close to a military base and a college. So the location would be great! are you going to make a nice grass strip or are you going to pave a runway ? i sort of assumed that for cost reasons and since you all would be the only air traffic, it would be a nice grass strip. have you looked into heavy equipment rental and the like for proper grading of the land, sod, drainage, markings, etc? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #12 January 7, 2006 48 Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #13 January 7, 2006 Grass strip....Just getting to that point. We've estimated the costs for the plane....gear....hanger....etc. We are getting into how much it'd cost to get a runway and driveway into the place. Plumbing, electricity, etc. Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #14 January 7, 2006 http://www.utilityaircraft.com/costcomparisons.html has a spreadsheet on their website comparing the costs of their PAC750 (turbine) vs the other popular turbines. The break even point on the aircraft, assuming no tandems and average of 200 jumps/ year, you would need 45 skydivers. The tandem end of the operation involves a cost of $10K plus per rig. It helps if you have 2 rigs per instructor and a paid packer; the PAC750 turns fast loads. Start up costs on the tandem business could range $60k to $160k. If you know any private investors (like a lottery winner) who want to drop $2 million starting up a DZ, please have them drop me a line."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jloirsdaan 0 #15 January 7, 2006 Vets can get a small business loan in the 800,000 -1 million dollar range...... Jordan Go Fast, Dock Soft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #16 January 8, 2006 If you're contemplating a private strip in Virginia you must be careful in which county you attempt it. I know for a fact that in Albemarle County they will allow you to start up but they are aviation unfriendly and will have their "complainers" make enough noise to have your activities shut down. You'll last about a year at best. Orange County on the other hand is more liberal. I have been told by a friend with an airstrip there that they say it is ones "right" to have the means to arrive and depart ones own land in whichever manner he so chooses. It is your right to have an airstrip. Contact the local aviation community and see for sure where your county stands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #17 January 8, 2006 I'd say what state...but it could start a buzz. Thanks for the insight. I fly all the time out of the same county....but its out of the regional airport so who knows.... Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #18 January 8, 2006 I love it! I can alreay tell your gonna fly jumpers to 15K. Your gonna hold blow out boogies with many KEGS- O- FREE BEER! Really all you have to do is provide free strippers and whammo! Instant DZ. I would like to be the first to say THANK YOU!_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #19 January 8, 2006 Build it and they will come....add a tunnel and they will cum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #20 January 10, 2006 An Australian publication, but may still have some handy tips: So You Want to Start a Skydiving Centre... A Guide for those starting a Parachute Club or Dropzone from Scratch nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #21 January 10, 2006 Your profile says Manassas. I am only about 35 miles away On the Maryland side. If you do it let me know, I am sick of driving 2 and a half hours one way to jump. Where are you talking about? Send me a PM if you don't want to post it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #22 January 10, 2006 JohnnySkydive... all joking aside about how to make a small fortune... best of luck to you. Seems there's a lot of good "food for thought" here in the thread. Before I add my 2 cents... I'll qualify what I'm about to say by saying I'm not a DZO nor have I ever been; just a skydiver... Anyway, I'm sure there's many many aspects to operating a DZ, but one thing I've noticed is that DZOs are better of if they own & maintain their aircraft. I'm sure there's Pro's and Con's to doing it both ways, but it just seems that way to me. I've seen two DZs have problems with this... One was a small Cessna operation where neither of the DZOs were pilots and neither knew thing one about wrenching on an airplane. They were forever leasing this plane or that and as time passed had increasing problems finding an decent and well maintained aircraft. The other, while they had the cash to buy the aircraft, a King-Air in-fact, again, neither of the DZOs were pilots and neither knew about maintaining aircraft. Their attititude was "we'll just pay for it" and pay they did. I saw several times where even the simplest thing would go wrong on the aircraft that either could have been taken care of with a little "preventative maintenance" by someone knowlegeable during the week... or something would go wrong on the weekend and they'd be shutdown for the rest of Saturday and Sunday waiting to contact an AMP on Monday or they'd pay top dollar to get one out of bed and come work on the airplane on the weekend. Also, you mentioned putting in a runway on the land you and / or your partner own. I'm sure the rules may varry for state to state, but have you researched to see if its just as simple as "dragging & putting in a grass strip"? I don't know, but would be currious to know what you find out. Again, good luck! Let us know when the opening weekend boogie is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Johnnyskydive 0 #23 January 10, 2006 Quote I'm sure the rules may varry for state to state, but have you researched to see if its just as simple as "dragging & putting in a grass strip"? I don't know, but would be currious to know what you find out. Quote Thats what we are going to look into here in the next couple of days. I don't think it'll be an issue....but I've been wrong lots before . Also....we're planning on buying the plane(s)...but we should maybe look into leasing also. I haven't come to a conclusion on that issue just yet. But we have a good friend (non skydiver) who is a GREAT aircraft mechanic. Planning on sending all business his way....which he is quite happy with. Hopefully it'll stay that way! Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 9 #24 January 10, 2006 Johnny... take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know all the details nor have done the research y'all are engaged in, but the reason I mentioned the "runway" thing was after hearing speak of another person here in The People's Republic of California trying to set-up a DZ and finding out that the "runway" they would have to build would be a significantly bigger construction project then they first thought... again, I don't know the details, but I think it had something to do with that since they were going to use it to operate (support ?) a business open to the public, they couldn't call it a private landing strip... and once it was no longer a private strip, then "how" it needed to be built wasn't trivial... Anyway, I'm sure you may find out that there are some questions you'd rather avoid asking because you may not like the answer... but in this case, I doubt you'd like the FAA knocking at your door one day saying you have to shut-down for what ever reason they've smoked up. Agian, good luck and I'd be currious to hear what "they" say about putting a runway on your property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Johnnyskydive 0 #25 January 10, 2006 .....I hope that's not the case. There are probably LOTS of questions out there that I'm not going to like the answers to. But I like a challenge....I just hope it doesn't end up being a nightmare!! But I'm stubborn and like to make stuff happen. I will now put the runway question next on the list of things to do. I think I will call the FAA and see what I need to look into. Thanks for that bit of advice. Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Johnnyskydive 0 #23 January 10, 2006 Quote I'm sure the rules may varry for state to state, but have you researched to see if its just as simple as "dragging & putting in a grass strip"? I don't know, but would be currious to know what you find out. Quote Thats what we are going to look into here in the next couple of days. I don't think it'll be an issue....but I've been wrong lots before . Also....we're planning on buying the plane(s)...but we should maybe look into leasing also. I haven't come to a conclusion on that issue just yet. But we have a good friend (non skydiver) who is a GREAT aircraft mechanic. Planning on sending all business his way....which he is quite happy with. Hopefully it'll stay that way! Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 9 #24 January 10, 2006 Johnny... take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know all the details nor have done the research y'all are engaged in, but the reason I mentioned the "runway" thing was after hearing speak of another person here in The People's Republic of California trying to set-up a DZ and finding out that the "runway" they would have to build would be a significantly bigger construction project then they first thought... again, I don't know the details, but I think it had something to do with that since they were going to use it to operate (support ?) a business open to the public, they couldn't call it a private landing strip... and once it was no longer a private strip, then "how" it needed to be built wasn't trivial... Anyway, I'm sure you may find out that there are some questions you'd rather avoid asking because you may not like the answer... but in this case, I doubt you'd like the FAA knocking at your door one day saying you have to shut-down for what ever reason they've smoked up. Agian, good luck and I'd be currious to hear what "they" say about putting a runway on your property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Johnnyskydive 0 #25 January 10, 2006 .....I hope that's not the case. There are probably LOTS of questions out there that I'm not going to like the answers to. But I like a challenge....I just hope it doesn't end up being a nightmare!! But I'm stubborn and like to make stuff happen. I will now put the runway question next on the list of things to do. I think I will call the FAA and see what I need to look into. Thanks for that bit of advice. Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
ZigZagMarquis 9 #24 January 10, 2006 Johnny... take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know all the details nor have done the research y'all are engaged in, but the reason I mentioned the "runway" thing was after hearing speak of another person here in The People's Republic of California trying to set-up a DZ and finding out that the "runway" they would have to build would be a significantly bigger construction project then they first thought... again, I don't know the details, but I think it had something to do with that since they were going to use it to operate (support ?) a business open to the public, they couldn't call it a private landing strip... and once it was no longer a private strip, then "how" it needed to be built wasn't trivial... Anyway, I'm sure you may find out that there are some questions you'd rather avoid asking because you may not like the answer... but in this case, I doubt you'd like the FAA knocking at your door one day saying you have to shut-down for what ever reason they've smoked up. Agian, good luck and I'd be currious to hear what "they" say about putting a runway on your property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnyskydive 0 #25 January 10, 2006 .....I hope that's not the case. There are probably LOTS of questions out there that I'm not going to like the answers to. But I like a challenge....I just hope it doesn't end up being a nightmare!! But I'm stubborn and like to make stuff happen. I will now put the runway question next on the list of things to do. I think I will call the FAA and see what I need to look into. Thanks for that bit of advice. Johnny Skydive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
