How close is too close for a wingsuit to fly by when u r under canopy?

[diablopilot 2]

Too right Lisa.

If wingsuit pilots would stick to the plan and arange things before hand, there should NEVER be a conflict. "L" shaped, or outward diagonals will always keep the pilots from returning to a dangerous, canopy "infested" area.

OT: Wingsuits are another example of the "antisocial" problems in skydiving. For a while freeflying suffered from this, but now it's mainstream. Wingsuits often attract those that don't want to hear critizism, or don't play well with others. I know, because that's what attracted me originally. I could be "cool" without "paying dues" as the old skygods would say. The problem with that logic is humans are social creatures and skydivers are no exception. So while they may pretend to be an outcast, or doing their own thing, the "hindbrain" says "I'll show these guys how good I am."

It's boring being out there alone all the time, but ego often stops one from making connections with others, especially after shunning those persons previously. I don't wingsuit often anymore for a couple reasons. 1) Lack of people to wingsuit with. They just are not around that often, and solos don't do it for me. 2) I can't deal with the "loaners with a cause". Who wants to jump with someone who contunually tells you how good they are? I was that guy once, and slowly grew out of it. I just hope I never endangered someone.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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And it shouldn't be done. Wingsuit training programs advise flying parallel to the spot and then returning to the DZ once established under canopy.

And people who dump high and fly their canopy perpendicular to jumprun for a long time can get into the same airspace as our pattern. I keep my eyes open for this very reason. It happens. When it does, I am often much closer to canopies than 1/4 mile (which I agree is a ridiculous figure), but I am not buzzing them either.

Too true, and those people should a) avise they are dumping high, b) have their own pass off the spot, c) the whole plane should have comunicated their intentions to each other, and d) if there is that many different activies going on, plans should be inplace and implimented by manifes, the pilots, the DZM, and S&TA's to handle it.

The big sky theory works, till it doesn't.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Calvin19 0]

of course 1/4 mile is a ridiculous figure... im not worried about it because i was jokeing and this forum does nothing but point out to me why i do everything i can to avoid drop zones and use my crews own planes to skyjump. of course... then i dont have gates (tandems)

when i do jump at a dz, i will fly a bit closer than a quarter freaking mile to canopies, i am sorry, i will pull at 2000', and i will be perfectly safe about it. i doubt all the skydivers panties will get twisted, because even 500' is a hell of a long way, and they wont even see me.


this kinda reminds me of the skier/snowboarder wars and arguments... skiers thought snowboarders were getting too close, and that they were scary... they thought they should have their own, seperate mountains. ....the horror...
and im even a skier

[Calvin19 0]

[The big sky theory works, till it doesn't.

[Ron 10]

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im not worried about it because i was jokeing and this forum does nothing but point out to me why i do everything i can to avoid drop zones and use my crews own planes to skyjump. of course... then i dont have gates (tandems)

As a TI if you use me as a "gate" we will have a problem.

Ya think that maybe you always get grief because you always run around like you already have it all fiqured out?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Calvin19 0]

Ron, buddy,
i know there are a ton of things i dont know about jumping, especialy wingsuiting. i do have a few wingsuit dives... and im just trying to say that twisting up your panties for being able to see a wingsuiter while your under canopy through binoculars is probably not worth bursting the capilaries in your forehead...


there is a big difference between "holy shit that was to close for comfort" and "wait... um... is he... yeah! hes wearing a wingsuit! Im telling!"

now, dont threaten to break my nose... you might get this forum locked up as well...


im just playing with all of this, ron. we are all pals right? seriously... we are argueing online... its just something to do on a windy day... deep breaths...

[FrogNog 1]

If they hit me, they were too close.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[tr027 0]

That's about my response. 50'. As long as they don't get in my way (since I'm lower I have the right of way) or hit me I'm okay with it. But since it's not preplanned almost all responsibility lies on them to make sure they miss me.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[The111 1]

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But since it's not preplanned almost all responsibility lies on them to make sure they miss me.

Almost?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[diablopilot 2]

At 80 mph a wingsuit pilot is closing on you at 117 ft per second. Say they are going to buzz you 50' away on your left side. You don't know they are coming. They are 4 seconds away from passing you or 470 feet away. You turn left 90 degrees. It takes them a second to see this and another to begin to react. Your canopy at 25mph has now covered AT LEAST 65 feet and it's directly into their originaly intended flight path. You wanna trust your life to their skill?

Hell, in AFF you trusted your instructors and they had to show ALOT more in skydiving ability than any wingsuit pilot or instructor has been required to show.

I'll say it again. buzz jobs are fun. Don't do them unless ALL parties know what's going on.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

JP, remind me...about 2 years ago at the American Boogie (the one with the Hummer wreck) when we did the formation cross country for the last jump, two Casa's and a Caravan. Were you one of the wingsuit pilots that got out last?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[diablopilot 2]

I don't think so. IIRC that year I went and played "sub100CRW" with a couple of the boys, the one where we got to watch Mark D. almost die after wraping "Toe-Up".

Hehehehehe...boy what fun.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Lol...I got to watch it from above and behind. I couldn't remember if you were demoing matter stuff then or if it was the next year. 60 canopies with wingsuits flying fron back to front through the whole cross country. I was gonna talk shit if you were one of those bad wingsuit guys...since you were doing something safe and logical I'll keep my mouth shut! I agree with you guys though. If it's planned then jump the plan, even if it's a crazy plan, everyone knows what's up, they have the opportunity to not participate. If you decide to do some crazy shit, include me without my knowledge then I'll be sad...and I'll share...

However. 1/4 mile is pretty far......

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[Ron 10]

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Ron, buddy,
i know there are a ton of things i dont know about jumping, especialy wingsuiting. i do have a few wingsuit dives... and im just trying to say that twisting up your panties for being able to see a wingsuiter while your under canopy through binoculars is probably not worth bursting the capilaries in your forehead...

*Seeing* and being buzzed are two totally different things.

When I SEE a person open near me I am not totally pissed. I talk to that person about seperation.

When a guy TELLS me he did it on purpose case it was "fun", and I was a "cone" or "gate"...Then I get pissed. He has no right to write checks with my body.

Accidents are one thing, doing something that endangers me for fun is another subject.

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there is a big difference between "holy shit that was to close for comfort" and "wait... um... is he... yeah! hes wearing a wingsuit! Im telling!"

Yep...Show me once where I said that seeing a guy is enough? Go ahead..ONE.

I said if you use me for a target to get your jollies expect me to be pissed.

How would you like it if when you opened I came in and top docked your canopy? I can do it safely, done it a bunch.

Or how would you like it if when you are walking from the parking lot I come running in in my car past you at 50MPH? I have been driving A LOT longer than you have been jumping....So it would be cool with you right? I mean as long as in my opinion I made sure I would miss you and all, right?

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you might get this forum locked up as well...

Uh, you guys got that forum locked by thinking it was "fun" to risk others and we should not get pissed about it. I just mentioned that if you use me for fun and risk my life, expect something in return.

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im just playing with all of this, ron. we are all pals right? seriously... we are argueing online... its just something to do on a windy day... deep breaths...

Dude...I'm not pissed. You have not buzzed me without permission. I just said what I would do if it happend.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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That's about my response. 50'. As long as they don't get in my way (since I'm lower I have the right of way) or hit me I'm okay with it. But since it's not preplanned almost all responsibility lies on them to make sure they miss me.

You are OK with someone you don't know using you as a toy when the cost of a mistake could very easily kill you?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Calvin19 0]

Yep...Show me once where I said that seeing a guy is enough? Go ahead..ONE."

.......i cant, i was just being dramatic.......

"How would you like it if when you opened I came in and top docked your canopy? I can do it safely, done it a bunch."

..............me too! (well, 30 times maybe) CRW is sick! (as long as its planned, and/OR above 2 grand)..........

"Or how would you like it if when you are walking from the parking lot I come running in in my car past you at 50MPH? I have been driving A LOT longer than you have been jumping....So it would be cool with you right? I mean as long as in my opinion I made sure I would miss you and all, right?"

as long as i couldnt possibly trip/jump/get pushed in front of your car, im down

Dude...I'm not pissed. You have not buzzed me without permission. I just said what I would do if it happend.

I know... i know... this forum place just lets me have an attitude...

[tr027 0]

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But since it's not preplanned almost all responsibility lies on them to make sure they miss me.

Almost?

Small technicality. But just like when 2 canopies are flying at each other both jumpers, not just one should avoid the collision, if I was aware of a WS on a collision course then I would try to avoid getting hit. But as I mentioned before, lower one has the right of way anyway.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Ron 10]

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"How would you like it if when you opened I came in and top docked your canopy? I can do it safely, done it a bunch."

..............me too! (well, 30 times maybe) CRW is sick! (as long as its planned, and/OR above 2 grand)..........

What if I did it at 1200 feet and it was not planned? I have done quite a bit of CRW (Was on a rotation team years ago) so I feel confidant that I could do it, and to be honest you not knowing I was planning on it does not really matter to the dock....Is it still cool with you?

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as long as i couldnt possibly trip/jump/get pushed in front of your car, im down

But what if MY idea of safe enough is not yours? I mean 50 MPH buzz 10 feet away....Unless you start to run you will be fine.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Calvin19 0]

i think our problem is still haveing no number attached to the so called buzz. and possibly the scrunched panties of a few old timers (not just you ron)

if im 500' away from you in a suit, be it intentional or not, and you get pissed, im sorry, but thats the way it might have to be.
BUT... if i come within 50' of you and throw my pilot chute in your face, i would totaly understand an asschewing is in order, hell, i might not even get an attitude about it.
I think 50' is a bit close for an unplanned buzz (...)

as for docking on my canopy at 1200'...
now YOUR just being dramatic.
but if you did i wouldnt break your nose, i would say "Dude! that was cool, but warn me next time"

[mjosparky 4]

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i think our problem is still haveing no number attached to the so called buzz. and possibly the scrunched panties of a few old timers (not just you ron)

if im 500' away from you in a suit, be it intentional or not, and you get pissed, im sorry, but thats the way it might have to be.
BUT... if i come within 50' of you and throw my pilot chute in your face, i would totaly understand an asschewing is in order, hell, i might not even get an attitude about it.
I think 50' is a bit close for an unplanned buzz (...)

as for docking on my canopy at 1200'...
now YOUR just being dramatic.
but if you did i wouldnt break your nose, i would say "Dude! that was cool, but warn me next time"

If you are still flying you wingsuit, with you limited experience, after I have opened I predict you will not last long in this sport.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Calvin19 0]

by docking we mean canopy to canopy...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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If you are still flying you wingsuit, with you limited experience, after I have opened I predict you will not last long in this sport.

Matt is a good kid and a heads up pilot. He did very well last summer handling an aircraft emergency that I got to witness very very close and personal. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't kill himself one day. He has been known to be a risk taker. If he does survive, rest assured he will have done some neat stuff by the time he's old and grey. But I think he's just here trying to stur some of you guys up and you're falling into his trap. But rest assured he is a heads up pilot. I've seen it up close and personal.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Tonto 1]

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Matt is a good kid and a heads up pilot.

When I read things like that, I think of Patrick De Gayardon, Rob Harris, Tom Piras, Roger Nelson etc.

They were Kings - World Champions - Icons. (No, not the container..)

They had talent, were hugely current, had incredible skills...

And yet the ground offered them no consession for their level of skill or experience.

The risk of living your life on the point of the sword is that it is the 1st to be blunted on the armour of reality. The risk of being part of the blade is far, far less, and yet we are still part of the weapon that slays the dragons of bordom that threaten our lives.

Thinking back over the past 20 years, I've done some stupid, stupid things, and survived through luck, good fortune and perhaps the skills I gained along the way. I hope others will be as lucky as I have been thus far, but the incidents mill shows me that is not the case.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[billvon 3,109]

>if im 500' away from you in a suit, be it intentional or not, and you get
>pissed, im sorry, but thats the way it might have to be.

Dude, if you have that little control over your flight, you have GOT to get some instruction before you jump your wingsuit again! We already had one collision at Perris that could have been really, really bad (but fortunately wasn't) - we don't need any more in the sport.

[Ron 10]

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When I read things like that, I think of Patrick De Gayardon, Rob Harris, Tom Piras, Roger Nelson etc.

They were Kings - World Champions - Icons. (No, not the container..)

They had talent, were hugely current, had incredible skills...

And yet the ground offered them no consession for their level of skill or experience.

The risk of living your life on the point of the sword is that it is the 1st to be blunted on the armour of reality. The risk of being part of the blade is far, far less, and yet we are still part of the weapon that slays the dragons of bordom that threaten our lives.

I have to say, that was very well written.

I like to say "The ground is filled with people who thought they had skills."

But that sounds almost fortune cookieish after what you wrote.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334