Does your Dropzone have wind holds?

[mjosparky 4]

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Just depends on the DZ. Did a jump today at 18kt winds gusting to 25kts. The DZO tried to talk me out of it-but I let him know I was ready to go and wound up having a sweet jump.

Ever stop and think why he was trying to talk you out of it?

The same guy has his reserve loaded at 1.3:1 +. But thats OK, he can handle it.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[bch7773 0]

my DZ only has wind holds for students. if we get enough jumpers to fill a load and the pilot is willing, we fly.

that being said, kansas typically has very strong winds... we are all used to jumping in high winds and so they don't bother us. my personal limit for winds is 30+ mph.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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...we are all used to jumping in high winds and so they don't bother us. my personal limit for winds is 30+ mph.

Dude... don't know if you were just trollin' there... or if you're crater bait... have you ever been under canopy in high winds had had your canopy collapse?

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

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Don't worry, forecast shows it's going to be colder this next weekend, with highs in the mid- 40s.

thanks for the words of encouragement.

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[Reginald 0]

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that being said, kansas typically has very strong winds... we are all used to jumping in high winds and so they don't bother us. my personal limit for winds is 30+ mph.

Texas has high winds too…the more jumps I get the lower my wind limits are. 30 MPH? No way for me!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[justinb138 0]

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Don't worry, forecast shows it's going to be colder this next weekend, with highs in the mid- 40s.

thanks for the words of encouragement.

I just saw an updated forecast, showing highs in the upper 30's.

I'll jump in 40+ ground temps, but if it's colder than that, it ain't happening.

[skyberdyber 0]

At Skydive Atlanta we will hold for high wind or large gusts (more than 10 knot spread). We limit based on license and experience on a case by case by day too.
We did a wind hold on Saturday, winds 18 gusting to 31 knots. Later we jumped tandems and experienced jumpers in 16 gusting to 22, sometimes 25 knots. The wind direction was totally steady and we had clear air in the landing area. The jumpers all had over 1000 jumps save one who had 700 (300 last year).
Our limit usually is 28 knots or more.
These limits have come from my personal experience watching over the years what we accomplished safely and when we have pushed the limit and people have been put in compromising positions. Also, at 18 knots many canopies will still have forward speed. When everyone is landing backwards, it's probably time to stop.

At a given DZ, obstacles that create rotors are a huge factor to be considered. In other words, not all DZ's are created equal when it comes to landing areas. At most DZ's it's up to the jumper to decide what's safe for themselves.

http://www.skydiveatlanta.com
http://www.musiccityskydiving.com

[tombuch 0]

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Later we jumped tandems and experienced jumpers in 16 gusting to 22, sometimes 25 knots. The wind direction was totally steady and we had clear air in the landing area. The jumpers all had over 1000 jumps save one who had 700 (300 last year).
Our limit usually is 28 knots or more.

Seriously?

A wind limit of 28 knots is 32 mph. The "or more" part could be anything above that?

Your example of 16 knots (18.42 mph), gusting to 25 knots (29 mph) gives you a gust factor of 9 knots, or 10.36 mph. That 9 knots is 56% of your steady wind speed.

You might as well not have any limits.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[firstime 0]

I will sum it up in my own words:

Rig..$5000.00
jumpsuit $300
helmut $300
Altimeter $170
jump tickets,etc.........

Seeing seasoned jumpers on the ground withOUT their jumpsuits on and a beer in their hand.. PRICELESS.

I don't need a book to tell me when it'safe to jump.

[matthewcline 0]

Who didn't jump that day?
And why?

I agree that the "floating" limits you describe aren't really limits.

I know the FAA and USPA BSR's do not limit those of us licensed, but if we do not do a little common sense policing we will have more injuries from landings that happened to be in high winds.

The "priceless" post is spot on as well as Tom's.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[skyberdyber 0]

Was there something constructive to add to the discussion in your post? I posted to help Valcore gain info, not to get criticized by those that disagree with my policy. I noticed that neither you nor matthewcline put down what you think the limit should be. Except that your DZ has no limit. That's not a very solid platform for a soapbox.

Matthewcline, if your intention was to say that our limits are subjective ("floating"), they are. There are too many variables involved. It is case by case, day by day, person by person evaluation. More than 10 knot gust spread at any speed or more than 28 knots total is an absolute limit in ideal directional conditions. If the wind is coming directly over the hangar or is shearing and turbulent at all we would tighten those limits by instructor/DZO/pilot concensus or as you put it, common sense policing.

http://www.skydiveatlanta.com
http://www.musiccityskydiving.com

[Erroll 80]

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Does your dropzone make a call on wind.......

When we first got an inflight door for our C182 several years ago, I often prayed for wind holds in the plane - especially on Sunday mornings after a heavy wings party the night before.....

[popsjumper 2]

Yes, we have wind holds. We are fortunate in that we have a highly experienced and greatly trusted S&TA that makes the call...His call has never been questioned.

Oh yeah, we bitch and moan in a friendly way and nobody pitches a hissy fit over it - not even the DZO.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[matthewcline 0]

Trey,

I run 20 knots as max and 10 knot variences as holds. I should have said that up front.

We do that till they have calmed for 10 minutes or more and the variences have calmed (same 10 minutes nad less than 10 knots).

Since we are a military team it is right in line with Military rules we follow.

US Civilian "only" DZ's may never see or hear of this, and use a "common sense" rule as allowed in the BSRs and FARs.

IMO a set limit needs to be announced so that those who have less experience will know prior to being grounded for the wind and it will avoid the arguments that have happened.

Just my opinion.

I like your DZ and have enjoyed many a jump there, starting back in 1998. Unfortunatly on the net we can't put inflection and emotion and all that better to understand stuff in a post. (unless your Mark Twain or Steven King).

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Kwoo 0]

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As an example we had 12-14 steady gusting to 21 today. We did not put a single plain up regardless of the number of people who wanted to jump and the sunny weather.

Any thoughts?

I was at the DZ mentioned above and there were several reasons why no loads went up.
The first, was one of aircraft. We had CASAs or a PAC-750 availible. The winds were cross to our rather tight runway and even though we were lousey with CASA pilots we only had one guy checked out (rather recently) to fly the PAC ( the pilots indicated that PACs don't do well in crosswind take offs) .... he checked the forcast many times and said no way.... his call, his right to make it.
We probably had enough people floating around to put up a CASA but ... several experienced jumpers knowing the the issues with our landing area, hills and trees would not have gotten on the load. So, to have enough jumpers to justify firing up a CASA the remaining experienced, lower number jumpers and ....students would have to have all agreed to jump. I watched 2 very seasoned instuctors discuss their unwillingness to be the guy to make the call to send students up. I think DZO was around most of the day and he didn't even come down from his office to question why no loads were going up.
About 1000 jumps ago I was lucky enough to walk away from a very scary (ask anyone that saw it) canopy collaspe on that same hill. But over the years I have seen several people go out by ambulance or helicopter under the same sorta conditions we had on Sunday.
I think that based on the above situations the right call was made in the interest of both safty and profit(jumper and aircarft) It was a fine day to see friends and trade lies!
valcore ...keep it up, 2 weeks plus!
karen

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

At Raeford we routinely halt loads due to strong, gusty and erratic wind conditions. We never, ever put students up in anything higher than a steady 14mph wind and will, on occasion, even ground them in with as little as 12 mph if it's gusty or "the Raeford Dragon" is blowing over the trees. We will also not launch tandems in hardly anything over 18mph. If grounding those jumpers means there is not enough to fly an Otter load, then we will hold the plane. If it's blowing around 20mph and people insist on jumping, we will restrict those loads to C and D license holders when we feel it is appropriate.

Having been in operation over 35 years now, we don't plan on skimping on safety at this point.

This is definitely one of those dropzones where you will see tons of grown guys with many thousands of jumps sitting on the ground laughing at the young guys whining that they still want to jump in shitty conditions.

Chuck

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Yup, as we land on a beach we have 2 different wind limit dependant on wind direction.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Later we jumped tandems and experienced jumpers in 16 gusting to 22, sometimes 25 knots. The wind direction was totally steady and we had clear air in the landing area. The jumpers all had over 1000 jumps save one who had 700 (300 last year).
Our limit usually is 28 knots or more.

Seriously?

A wind limit of 28 knots is 32 mph. The "or more" part could be anything above that?

Your example of 16 knots (18.42 mph), gusting to 25 knots (29 mph) gives you a gust factor of 9 knots, or 10.36 mph. That 9 knots is 56% of your steady wind speed.

You might as well not have any limits.
.

Skyberdyber... I can't speak for TomBuch... but what I got from your post and then his reply was that if your sustained wind limit is 28 knots, but why are you still willing to jump in conditions where gusts are approaching that... ?? ... its not like you can land between the gusts?

Let me try something a little different... in my own words... I was once told, if you find yourself asking yourself if you want to jump in "marginal wind conditions", add 10mph to what the current conditions and gust are and then ask youreself the same question.

Same thing, but again different words, there may be a flaw in your logic... if you're willing to jump in 28 knot winds... why are you willing to jump in winds less then that, but with gusts approaching that as so long as what you "preceive" the sustained wind-speed is below your "limit"? ... again, its not like you can land between the gusts.

As for jumping in 28knot (32mph) winds... I would have long since pulled myself off of the manifest and been drinkin' a beer and watching the "drag races"... drag races as in seeing who gets drug under canopy the furthest on landing if anyone is still jumping in such condions.

[uponone 0]

I haven't seen wind over 10mph in all my jumps. We're in a nice little pocket.