dontbounce 0 #1 February 20, 2006 I search around a little looking for info on AFF and found this site: http://www.skydiveelsinore.com/jumpstart/index.html They have some awesome animations about AFF. Does anybody know how accurate this info is (esp EPs/Mals) and how much variance will I encounter at an AFF course elsewhere? I noticed their level 1 pull altitude is 4500 and mine was 5500... I thought the animations were great, and really helped me visualise how the rest of my AFF Jumps will go (as long as the material is the same). Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites daniel_owen_uk 0 #2 February 20, 2006 Lowest deployment altitudes are determined by the USPA, but that is all, different dropzones use different altitudes. It is a pretty good example, but why not watch the real thing? www.skydivemovies.com has lots of student movies showing the levels of AFF. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SEE ON THE INTERNET, LISTEN TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS. (sure you know that anyway)__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #3 February 20, 2006 Animations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #4 February 20, 2006 Quote I noticed their level 1 pull altitude is 4500 and mine was 5500... No, the "waive and pull sequence" starts at 5,500 feet. Just like your's was. They are just saying that you better have a PC out no later than 4,500 or the fine instructional staff at the DZ will give you a hand. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #5 February 20, 2006 QuoteAnimations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever I believe the requirement is to exit unstable and regain stability... (I did a summersault out the door on L7.)Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skymonkey2 0 #6 February 20, 2006 If your looking for information about becoming an AFF instructor check out www.airrageskydivingservices.comAFFI-E, Tandem I-E, S/L I-E, IAD I-E, Coach I-E Students are our future teach them well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dontbounce 0 #7 February 20, 2006 My AFF Level 1 was lock on to the alti at 6500. At 5500 wave and pull (basically all in one smooth motion). QuoteThey are just saying that you better have a PC out no later than 4,500 or the fine instructional staff at the DZ will give you a hand. Yeah, unfortunately, I learned that firsthand... Adrenaline is a strange thing. It can make a normal person into either "superman", or "rain man" (as in my case)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dontbounce 0 #8 February 20, 2006 No I am looking to learn how to do my aff. With three jumps so far, I would say instructor is still a few weeks away... thanks though... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #9 February 20, 2006 Do you have a SIM? You seem quite hungry for knowledge, which is great, and I think reading it cover to cover (or at least the sections about the student program) is a great start. A lot of the things you've asked questions about are addressed, at least at some level, in the SIM. Use that as your basis of learning, then ask your instructors for additional detail. I know others have said it, but it bears repeating. With three jumps, asking as many questions as you are online concerns me a bit. By all means read here, but take most of it with a grain of salt. This can be a great place to learn, but it is a much better place to learn when you know enough about the sport to know how to filter the information and interpret the information (and when you've learned who the people are who can help you interpret that information - instructors, mentors, experts, etc). At this point in your career, I would venture to guess that you don't have that yet. Nothing personal, just that you don't yet know what you don't know. Hell, I've been in the sport 18 months and I'm only beginning to get an inkling of exactly how much I don't know. Unlike dropzone.com, the SIM is a document that has been developed and vetted by the USPA. Is it perfect? Probably not ... it was written by a committee and reads that way. But chances are very high that your training program is based off of the training program outlined in the SIM, and you can learn a LOT about what to expect from the SIM. You can read it online, but it's nice to have your very own copy to read and refer to. When I was a student I read it a lot while I was traveling, so it was nice to have my own hard copy I could pull out of my backpack whenever I had a few minutes. (Edit to add: you can buy it/read it online at the link below, but I'd be willing to bet that Eloy's got plenty of copies on hand that you can buy). http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shermanator 4 #10 February 21, 2006 QuoteAnimations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever those animations sure did help me know what was coming next, and the videos of each level jump they have halp too. with the sit exit, i think they did that to help with the back flip? when i did my l7 there, they had me do that and go directly to backflip from it. I stuck on my back, oops.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mockingbird 0 #11 February 21, 2006 QuoteAdrenaline is a strange thing. It can make a normal person into either "superman", or "rain man" (as in my case)... I can identify! Yeah, I stumbled across those animations a while back too and found them helpful for having some idea of what I'd be doing at a certain level BEFORE I actually got to the dz. I hated not knowing what the maneuvers would look like until 15 minutes before the actual jump. Elsinore did a great job on them, eh.Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dontbounce 0 #12 February 21, 2006 QuoteDo you have a SIM? You seem quite hungry for knowledge, which is great, and I think reading it cover to cover (or at least the sections about the student program) is a great start. Yes, I am hungry for knowledge. No I dont have a "SIM", don't even know what it is. I will check out the link you sent... Thanks! QuoteWith three jumps, asking as many questions as you are online concerns me a bit. Why are you concerned? You didn't ask a ton of questions when you started? That concerns me a bit! This forum is a great resource. I would rather know too much than too little. Sure, while too much info is a bad thing, I don't want to place my life in the hands of others. I am too much of a control freak to just "assume" that everything will go as expected. I want to know about MALS, EPs, Going In, risk levels, AAD's, Wingloading, Hook Turns, RSLs, different types of canopies & containers, etc, etc, etc... Check the attached Photo and all will become clear... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #13 February 21, 2006 QuoteYes, I am hungry for knowledge. No I dont have a "SIM", don't even know what it is. I will check out the link you sent... Thanks! SIM is "Skydivers Information Manual," as I'm sure you learned when you clicked on that link. QuoteWhy are you concerned? You didn't ask a ton of questions when you started? That concerns me a bit! This forum is a great resource. I would rather know too much than too little. Absolutely, I wanted to learn a lot and I still do, every single day. This is not, however, a sport for which your primary instruction, particularly early on, should be online. This is a sport to learn from trained instructors in person. You're jumping at Eloy, one of the top dropzones in the world. By all means, come on here and *supplement* your training. But start there, please. QuoteI want to know about MALS, EPs, Going In, risk levels, AAD's, Wingloading, Hook Turns, RSLs, different types of canopies & containers, etc, etc, etc... An awful lot of that is in the SIM, and a good portion of that should have been covered in your First Jump Course, and will be reinforced throughout your training. The only thing you need to know about hook turns is this: you don't need to be doing them any time soon. It's not that I (and others) are worried that you're getting too much information. It's that you seem to be getting most of it from here. I'm sure that your instructors at Eloy would have encouraged you to buy a SIM soon, but the fact is, the SIM is a MUCH better place to start learning than here. The information is (mostly) well-organized in a way that makes sense for students to learn it. The other thing I'll add is - have you looked at the articles on this site (under the "Safety" link above). There's a lot of additional information there that will get into a lot of the questions you're asking. Honestly, I don't want you to think anyone is trying to discourage you from being enthusiastic and learning a lot. It's just that you will be going through a very good training program that will address these questions for you (and if they don't get addressed, ask, and if they're too busy during the day, stick around and buy them a beer at the Bent Prop at the end of the day.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #14 February 21, 2006 Your son needs to be in the BASE threads.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GoRdOn8619 0 #15 February 22, 2006 yeah that picture just shows that we are all born to want to fly. i can tell hes gunna be a base jumper or just keep jumping off furnature his whole life. blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
daniel_owen_uk 0 #2 February 20, 2006 Lowest deployment altitudes are determined by the USPA, but that is all, different dropzones use different altitudes. It is a pretty good example, but why not watch the real thing? www.skydivemovies.com has lots of student movies showing the levels of AFF. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SEE ON THE INTERNET, LISTEN TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS. (sure you know that anyway)__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #3 February 20, 2006 Animations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #4 February 20, 2006 Quote I noticed their level 1 pull altitude is 4500 and mine was 5500... No, the "waive and pull sequence" starts at 5,500 feet. Just like your's was. They are just saying that you better have a PC out no later than 4,500 or the fine instructional staff at the DZ will give you a hand. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #5 February 20, 2006 QuoteAnimations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever I believe the requirement is to exit unstable and regain stability... (I did a summersault out the door on L7.)Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skymonkey2 0 #6 February 20, 2006 If your looking for information about becoming an AFF instructor check out www.airrageskydivingservices.comAFFI-E, Tandem I-E, S/L I-E, IAD I-E, Coach I-E Students are our future teach them well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontbounce 0 #7 February 20, 2006 My AFF Level 1 was lock on to the alti at 6500. At 5500 wave and pull (basically all in one smooth motion). QuoteThey are just saying that you better have a PC out no later than 4,500 or the fine instructional staff at the DZ will give you a hand. Yeah, unfortunately, I learned that firsthand... Adrenaline is a strange thing. It can make a normal person into either "superman", or "rain man" (as in my case)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontbounce 0 #8 February 20, 2006 No I am looking to learn how to do my aff. With three jumps so far, I would say instructor is still a few weeks away... thanks though... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #9 February 20, 2006 Do you have a SIM? You seem quite hungry for knowledge, which is great, and I think reading it cover to cover (or at least the sections about the student program) is a great start. A lot of the things you've asked questions about are addressed, at least at some level, in the SIM. Use that as your basis of learning, then ask your instructors for additional detail. I know others have said it, but it bears repeating. With three jumps, asking as many questions as you are online concerns me a bit. By all means read here, but take most of it with a grain of salt. This can be a great place to learn, but it is a much better place to learn when you know enough about the sport to know how to filter the information and interpret the information (and when you've learned who the people are who can help you interpret that information - instructors, mentors, experts, etc). At this point in your career, I would venture to guess that you don't have that yet. Nothing personal, just that you don't yet know what you don't know. Hell, I've been in the sport 18 months and I'm only beginning to get an inkling of exactly how much I don't know. Unlike dropzone.com, the SIM is a document that has been developed and vetted by the USPA. Is it perfect? Probably not ... it was written by a committee and reads that way. But chances are very high that your training program is based off of the training program outlined in the SIM, and you can learn a LOT about what to expect from the SIM. You can read it online, but it's nice to have your very own copy to read and refer to. When I was a student I read it a lot while I was traveling, so it was nice to have my own hard copy I could pull out of my backpack whenever I had a few minutes. (Edit to add: you can buy it/read it online at the link below, but I'd be willing to bet that Eloy's got plenty of copies on hand that you can buy). http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #10 February 21, 2006 QuoteAnimations are pretty good. I notice for level 7 they want you to exit in a sit. Seems bit odd to me. But whatever those animations sure did help me know what was coming next, and the videos of each level jump they have halp too. with the sit exit, i think they did that to help with the back flip? when i did my l7 there, they had me do that and go directly to backflip from it. I stuck on my back, oops.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #11 February 21, 2006 QuoteAdrenaline is a strange thing. It can make a normal person into either "superman", or "rain man" (as in my case)... I can identify! Yeah, I stumbled across those animations a while back too and found them helpful for having some idea of what I'd be doing at a certain level BEFORE I actually got to the dz. I hated not knowing what the maneuvers would look like until 15 minutes before the actual jump. Elsinore did a great job on them, eh.Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontbounce 0 #12 February 21, 2006 QuoteDo you have a SIM? You seem quite hungry for knowledge, which is great, and I think reading it cover to cover (or at least the sections about the student program) is a great start. Yes, I am hungry for knowledge. No I dont have a "SIM", don't even know what it is. I will check out the link you sent... Thanks! QuoteWith three jumps, asking as many questions as you are online concerns me a bit. Why are you concerned? You didn't ask a ton of questions when you started? That concerns me a bit! This forum is a great resource. I would rather know too much than too little. Sure, while too much info is a bad thing, I don't want to place my life in the hands of others. I am too much of a control freak to just "assume" that everything will go as expected. I want to know about MALS, EPs, Going In, risk levels, AAD's, Wingloading, Hook Turns, RSLs, different types of canopies & containers, etc, etc, etc... Check the attached Photo and all will become clear... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #13 February 21, 2006 QuoteYes, I am hungry for knowledge. No I dont have a "SIM", don't even know what it is. I will check out the link you sent... Thanks! SIM is "Skydivers Information Manual," as I'm sure you learned when you clicked on that link. QuoteWhy are you concerned? You didn't ask a ton of questions when you started? That concerns me a bit! This forum is a great resource. I would rather know too much than too little. Absolutely, I wanted to learn a lot and I still do, every single day. This is not, however, a sport for which your primary instruction, particularly early on, should be online. This is a sport to learn from trained instructors in person. You're jumping at Eloy, one of the top dropzones in the world. By all means, come on here and *supplement* your training. But start there, please. QuoteI want to know about MALS, EPs, Going In, risk levels, AAD's, Wingloading, Hook Turns, RSLs, different types of canopies & containers, etc, etc, etc... An awful lot of that is in the SIM, and a good portion of that should have been covered in your First Jump Course, and will be reinforced throughout your training. The only thing you need to know about hook turns is this: you don't need to be doing them any time soon. It's not that I (and others) are worried that you're getting too much information. It's that you seem to be getting most of it from here. I'm sure that your instructors at Eloy would have encouraged you to buy a SIM soon, but the fact is, the SIM is a MUCH better place to start learning than here. The information is (mostly) well-organized in a way that makes sense for students to learn it. The other thing I'll add is - have you looked at the articles on this site (under the "Safety" link above). There's a lot of additional information there that will get into a lot of the questions you're asking. Honestly, I don't want you to think anyone is trying to discourage you from being enthusiastic and learning a lot. It's just that you will be going through a very good training program that will address these questions for you (and if they don't get addressed, ask, and if they're too busy during the day, stick around and buy them a beer at the Bent Prop at the end of the day.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #14 February 21, 2006 Your son needs to be in the BASE threads.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoRdOn8619 0 #15 February 22, 2006 yeah that picture just shows that we are all born to want to fly. i can tell hes gunna be a base jumper or just keep jumping off furnature his whole life. blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
