Turns... hooks, low, stall.... etc

[artistcalledian 0]

I've been thinking

what is a hook turn, how do you do it? what happens if you do a sharp, aggresive low turn? (apart from turn i guess and speed up...how much height do you lose?) stall turns?

canopy lessons, here i come !

I'm only asking out of curiosity, i'm not going to attempt any as i'll be pumping my instructors and coaches as well for info WELL before i even think about doing of that stuff

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drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[mattjw916 2]

Q: What is a hook turn?
A: Any turn that someone doesn't like.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[artistcalledian 0]

so, its not a turn done by a dude in a pirate costume then?
shiver me timbers

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[hexadecimal 0]

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what is a hook turn, how do you do it?

With your jump numbers (or mine for that matter), you don't.

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what happens if you do a sharp, aggresive low turn? (apart from turn i guess and speed up...how much height do you lose?)

1.) You lose altitude, gain speed, and quite possibly end up severely injured or dead.
2.) You'll be exactly the same height as you were before the turn.

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canopy lessons, here i come !

I'm only asking out of curiosity, i'm not going to attempt any as i'll be pumping my instructors and coaches as well for info WELL before i even think about doing of that stuff

You've got a long way to go... stay conservative.

[Kris 0]

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2.) You'll be exactly the same height as you were before the turn.

Incorrect. When a canopy turns, it loses altitude quite quickly.

To the original poster, I highly recommend The Parachute And Its Pilot, by Brian Germain.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[hexadecimal 0]

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2.) You'll be exactly the same height as you were before the turn.

Incorrect. When a canopy turns, it loses altitude quite quickly.

I think you missed what I was saying

[Remster 30]

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I think you missed what I was saying

I think its a dangerous joke to make.

Remster

[mattjw916 2]

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With your jump numbers (or mine for that matter), you don't.

That's silly. You can hook all day long up high, above 2 grand or so, for practice. That's how you figure out how much altitude you canopy loses in a 90, 180, or 270° front riser turn, etc, etc. Granted you want to make sure your airspace is clear and all that other good stuff but telling someone to "don't do it" is lame, esp since last time I checked front riser turns and maximum performance toggle turns are on the A license card.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Kris 0]

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I think its a dangerous joke to make.

Exactly. People need to keep the joking to The Bonfire and out of the topical forums.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[skydivermom 0]

What is a hook turn? I found out the hard way. Did one on my 2nd S/L jump. I did not intend to, just thought I hadn't made my final turn yet

I was fine; just had to listen to my instructor chew on me for a little bit (as he should have). Luckily I had a large canopy
Won't do that again.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[artistcalledian 0]

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2.) You'll be exactly the same height as you were before the turn.

Incorrect. When a canopy turns, it loses altitude quite quickly.

To the original poster, I highly recommend The Parachute And Its Pilot, by Brian Germain.

thanks
i've just ordered it online

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[hexadecimal 0]

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With your jump numbers (or mine for that matter), you don't.

That's silly. You can hook all day long up high, above 2 grand or so, for practice. That's how you figure out how much altitude you canopy loses in a 90, 180, or 270° front riser turn, etc, etc. Granted you want to make sure your airspace is clear and all that other good stuff but telling someone to "don't do it" is lame, esp since last time I checked front riser turns and maximum performance toggle turns are on the A license card.

I think you know what I meant.

I actually thought about being more specific in my answer to that question... but decided not to as I didn't think I'd get attacked for it. Guess I was wrong...

[hexadecimal 0]

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I think its a dangerous joke to make.

Exactly. People need to keep the joking to The Bonfire and out of the topical forums.

Read my original post again, and note that I did mention the loss of altitude in my answer to his first question.

The question "how much height will you lose?" doesn't have a static answer.

You're right though, I shouldn't assume that people who aren't experienced will get my joke when even people who are don't.... sorry.

[Fast 0]

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With your jump numbers (or mine for that matter), you don't.

That's silly. You can hook all day long up high, above 2 grand or so, for practice. That's how you figure out how much altitude you canopy loses in a 90, 180, or 270° front riser turn, etc, etc. Granted you want to make sure your airspace is clear and all that other good stuff but telling someone to "don't do it" is lame, esp since last time I checked front riser turns and maximum performance toggle turns are on the A license card.

I think you know what I meant.

I actually thought about being more specific in my answer to that question... but decided not to as I didn't think I'd get attacked for it. Guess I was wrong...

It isn't so much that you shouldn't be more specific in your answers because your going to be attacked.

I think one of the things that people forget when they pop into these threads is that there are, despite numerous warnings, many new skydivers that will come on here and read something and take it as gospel.

They don't always consider the source, they don't always ask thier instructors, and they don't think about it like an experience skydiver would.

If you are going to take the time to post at all please take the time to consider your audience and put some thought into the post :)


A hook turn as defined by practical definition:

A turn of 90 degrees or more executed close to the ground. Because of the high risk associated with this maneuver, hook turns have an unfavorable connotation.

Here is a tidbit from Skydiving

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What's a hook turn?

Q. What is a hook turn? What makes it a dangerous maneuver? I'm not a skydiver.

A. A hook turn is a quick canopy turn performed near the ground.

Turning a parachute makes it bank and banking increases its rate of descent. The harder the turn, the greater the bank and the greater the descent rate. The jumper swings out from under the parachute because the parachute is turning and diving while the jumper tends to go in a straight line. The result is a pendulum action: the jumper first swings outside the turning canopy, but gravity pulls him back under it when he stops the canopy's turn.

If the parachute is relatively small (experienced jumpers tend to use smaller canopies because they're more fun, like sports cars), the descent rate and increase in speed can easily be great enough to kill or seriously injure the jumper if he or she hits the ground while still in the turn, or if he's not yet under the canopy.

Some jumpers like to perform hook turns because they're fun, like driving a car at the edge. But if they misjudge their altitude, or if they hit some expected rough air or if they clip a tree, they can -- and do -- get hurt. The ground is very hard, and many orthopedic surgeons are putting their kids through college on the money they made off of botched hook turns.

But other skydivers perform hook turns somewhat inadvertently. For a variety of reasons (to avoid an obstacle, for instance), they'll initiate a sharp turn near to the ground, where there's not enough altitude for a recovery.

Many jumpers have never received training on how to make the best of a bad landing situation. For instance, it's almost always better to land under control downwind (or crosswind) than to attempt a last-second turn into the wind.

It's also much better to land under control on pavement than out of control on grass.

Hook-turn injuries are almost always preventable, and there's nothing mysterious about them. Many jumpers do them routinely and safely. The moral: don't maneuver your canopy radically when you're close to the ground unless you know what you're doing.

Anyways that should take care of answering that question.


The height, or better stated altitude, lost during a hook turn is dependant on many things. How you started the turn, is it a toggle turn? A front riser turn? A rear riser turn? A harness turn? (With small canopys you are able to cause it to turn just by leaning one way or the other in the harness) How you execute the turn also plays a part in how much altitude you lose. Also, the smaller the canopy the greater potential for altitude loss.

All of these are things that you can get more information about from instructors and local mentors as your skydiving career progresses.

For a new jumper, and this is what some people were trying to get at, you shouldn't be doing aggressive turns near the ground. I am sure that you have recieved some formal training on this subject. If not you should talk to your instructors about what kinds of turns can be performed at what altitudes. There are some general rules of thumb about what kinds of turns can be performed at what altitude but I think it is better off left to in person one-on-one instruction than to be discussed on here.

There are lots of things that you can learn about including braked / flat turns from your instructors. They are essential skills that can save you down the road once you are ready to learn about them. You have to remember that you have so much going on right now that there is only so much that you can learn on any given jump. You need to take things slow and learn in chunks that you are capable of remembering.

It seems these days I am spending a lot of time with people about your jump numbers trying to teach them some of these basic skills. For me its enjoyable. As long as you remember that, you won't be afraid to "bother" your instructors. The reason they are instructors is because they enjoy teaching new skydivers. (Or at least that's the reason I think they should be instructors)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[artistcalledian 0]

i've only done toggle turns so far, i didn't even know you could grab the risers !

i asked my instructor about turning last weekend, he told me that no 180 turns below 1,000 feet and nothing more than a gentle 90 turn above 500... and nothing at all below 500

jeez, i've got much to learn

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[phoenixlpr 0]

You know you should fill the beg of experience before you run out of your beg of luck.

[Broke 0]

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i've only done toggle turns so far, i didn't even know you could grab the risers !

i asked my instructor about turning last weekend, he told me that no 180 turns below 1,000 feet and nothing more than a gentle 90 turn above 500... and nothing at all below 500

jeez, i've got much to learn

What DZ are you jumping at when I was going through GS they said that I should start my approach at 1000ft then turn to my base leg about 600ft and turn upwind at around 400ft...kinda hard to make that last turn if you are not supposed to turn below 500ft.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[artistcalledian 0]

Langar in Nottinghamshire, england

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[NlghtJumper 0]

I just got out of AFF, but I was taught to start my approch at 1000', turn crosswind at 500', then turn into my final at 250'. If your final is 500' then your going to need a good strech of land to land on, especially on low to no wind days.

A man will do anything for the right woman,
and when that woman destroys him,
that man will become a hunk of meat with the common sense of a rodeo clown! ~ Christopher Titus