260 jumps/ vengence 150/ 1.4 loading

[teason 0]

In my ongoing battles with low level jumpers, this is the latest. This jumper has been jumping a turbo 165 and feels he is being held back. He hasn't had any formal canopy control coaching.

Apperently, a vengence doesn't fly like an eliptical! At least that's what I'm told.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[bigway 4]

I would not say it is a stupid idea, times are changing but it is under borderline. The guy must have balls.
There are some yanks i know that were on velocity at 100 jumps. That is stupid!!

I would not recommend the vengence on 260 jumps but there is nothing wrong with that wingloading if they had say a safire 2.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[apollard24 0]

Yikes! My SO has 2 Vengence 120's and has had 5 cutways on them...Very agressive canopy. I dont think he starting flying them until around 500 jumps or so...maybe even later than that...

Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

[dragon2 2]

Both the wingload and the canopy type would be against the rules here in The Netherlands.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[bigway 4]

What is wrong with the wingloading? Sure the canopy, but the wingloading on 260 jumps?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[teason 0]

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I would not recommend the vengence on 260 jumps but there is nothing wrong with that wingloading if they had say a safire 2.

you know, I recommended that to him yesterday and he got mad. He walked off the dz and took his rig and didn't pay me for his repack either!

I was doing a tandem when he left.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[dragon2 2]

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What is wrong with the wingloading? Sure the canopy, but the wingloading on 260 jumps?

Newest Dutch rules:

I : < 25 jumps
II : 25 - 100 jumps; >= 10 jumps in the last 12 months
III : 100 - 400 jumps; >= 25 jumps in the last 12 months
IV : 400 - 700 jumps; >=50 jumps in the last 12 months
V : 700 - 1000 jumps;>= 75 jumps in the last 12 months
VI : > 1000 jumps; >= 100 jumps in the last 12 months with sports main canopy

I : suitable type (= student canopy, sabre 1); wingload max 1,1; min 170 sqft
II : suitable type (= intermediate canopy); wingload max 1,1; min 170 sqft
III : suitable type (= intermediate canopy); wingload max 1,3; min 150 sqft
IV : suitable type (= stiletto etc); wingload max 1,5; min 135 sqft
V : suitable type (= vengence, crossfire, katana etc); wingload max 1,7; min 120 sqft
VI : no limits (xbraced).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Lindsey 0]

Hey....speaking of.... where's Rhino? That was sort of his progression....lol. Remember all the head-butting with him a couple years ago? I suppose he's still swooping.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[bigway 4]

Those are some tight rules mate.

I can't believe you need 700 jumps to jump an Icarus Safire 2 129, when you can jump a sabre 2 135. I am guessing ICARUS is not ding very well business over there. Not everyone is aware you can have custom sizes made.

I dont agree with those rules but i am sure they were set in place by someone who has a vast amount of experience more than i do so i can respect it.

I am glad i have found this out before going over there this summer cause i would have wasted a trip. not having the right canopy.

What if you have a small girl on a crossfire 2 and she has to jump a 120, what if that is under the wingloading recommendation from the manufacturer?
Then what does she do?

Do the majority of jumpers in the netherlands agree with these new rules? how do you feel about them?.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[tbrown 26]

Quote

In my ongoing battles with low level jumpers, this is the latest. This jumper has been jumping a turbo 165 and feels he is being held back. He hasn't had any formal canopy control coaching.

Apperently, a vengence doesn't fly like an eliptical! At least that's what I'm told.

Without coaching it's simply crazy. I mean there are some people who learn quickly enough and/or have enough natural ability that they should be allowed to progress quickly, but it would take coaching to evaluate that kind of ability.

The PD website has an article on the performance and flight characteristics of the Vengeance and if I recall, it uses a Stiletto as the closest comparable canopy.

As for not paying you for a repack, I'd get the word out and ask that all the DZ's in your area ban this little boy's cheap ass until he pays you whatever you want to charge him, at least double, if not more - and refuse to ever pack for him again. Hell, just file a police report and have the little bastard arrested. a night in jail would do him some good.


He doesn't sound like he has the maturity to skydive at all, let alone fly a high performance canopy.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[D22369 0]

have the jumper fill out with the pertinent details of both an accident and incident form to be mailed to USPA, this way the dzo or s&ta will only have to include the date.... chances are good he will thunder in soon.... hopefully he only femurs.


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[teason 0]

Hmm, so far almost a third think that it's a good idea.

What makes it a good idea to put this canopy on this jumper?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Trae 1]

It's a real pity that low timers don't get it that flying a high performance canopy is the reward for an extended investment in time, money and humility and often pain and suffering.

We all get to see the result of allowing people to fly canopies beyond their skill/experience level...time after time,

Sheeesh talk about getting your ability mixed up with your ambitions.

[mattjw916 2]

I'd just warn him about Vengeances in general... I don't know more than a couple people that can tolerate that canopy.

Probably not a good idea overall. Can it be done? Sure. Is it a particularly good choice... nope.

A Veng at 1.4 is pretty sporty, but at least it has a relatively short recovery arc. Better that than a Katana at 1.4 at 200-something jumps.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[gofast_ER 0]

400 jumps on a 150??? BLAH! I have a 165 that I have been jumping pretty much since I have been off student status. This thing is getting VERY boering for me. High wind, light wind, downwind in light wind conditions (5-10 mph), hook turns....yeah i can pretty much do all that in my sleep with my 165. Iv also jumped a 150 several times and have felt no difference. Im going to try out a stiletto 135 either next weekend or the weekend after. So, hopefully I wont feel like napping when its time to land as I usually feel like doing on my current canopie.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[mjosparky 4]

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400 jumps on a 150??? BLAH! I have a 165 that I have been jumping pretty much since I have been off student status. This thing is getting VERY boering boring for me. High wind, light wind, downwind in light wind conditions (5-10 mph), hook turns....yeah yea i can pretty much do all that in my sleep with my 165. Iv I've also jumped a 150 several times and have felt no difference. Im going to try out a stiletto 135 either next weekend or the weekend after. So, hopefully I wont feel like napping when its time to land as I usually feel like doing on my current canopie canopy.

"You keep thinking Butch, thats what you are good at." There will be plenty of time to nap in the ortho ward.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[D22369 0]

personally I think his name will be "go fast2 the ER"


ya know, it still makes me mad that some people just dont get it..... and they repeat mistakes that others have made - all the while saying the same tired mantra.....:" I am better than them"..... you dont know me.... I am exceptional.....


sheesh...

common sence isnt so common;

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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A Veng at 1.4 is pretty sporty, but at least it has a relatively short recovery arc.

No it doesn't. The Vengence has more than a reasonable recovery arc.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[bob.dino 1]

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This thing is getting VERY boering for me.

Then you've a lot to learn. Give your rig to a competition-level swooper and see what they can do with it...

[justinb138 0]

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A Veng at 1.4 is pretty sporty, but at least it has a relatively short recovery arc.

No it doesn't. The Vengence has more than a reasonable recovery arc.

Blues,
Ian

Some of the reviews on this site describe the recovery arc as closer to an x-braced canopy than a stiletto.

[gofast_ER 0]

ouch. I know I can't spell for crap but it still hurts everytime it gets pointed out

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[packing_jarrett 0]

Thats not too much of a downsize. It is a downsize and is stepping over to highperformance parachute. I'm not going to say he has a lot of jumps but he does have 260. If he hasn't been in trouble I'd give him a good briefing of what to expect. maybe even have an experienced canopy pilot/ instructor "test jump" both canopies to see how they compare. If 260 jump guy could find a stiletto 150 to jump a few times that would be better but not nessary.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[gofast_ER 0]

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400 jumps on a 150??? BLAH! I have a 165 that I have been jumping pretty much since I have been off student status. This thing is getting VERY boering boring for me. High wind, light wind, downwind in light wind conditions (5-10 mph), hook turns....yeah yea i can pretty much do all that in my sleep with my 165. Iv I've also jumped a 150 several times and have felt no difference. Im going to try out a stiletto 135 either next weekend or the weekend after. So, hopefully I wont feel like napping when its time to land as I usually feel like doing on my current canopie canopy.

"You keep thinking Butch, thats what you are good at." There will be plenty of time to nap in the ortho ward.

yeah ( P ) Pronunciation Key (y, y, y)
adv. Informal
Yes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Variant of yea.]

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[TrickyDicky 0]

If it's your DZ, then surely you have the right to say who jumps and who doesnt jump.

if not: Its your responsibility to give advise to help protect him. Its up to him to listen and take it on board, not you. If the DZO then lets him jump and he spanks himself in, then you cannot be to blame. All you can do is put your point accross to the DZO to try and stop him from jumping if you think he's gonna hurt himself.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[phoenixlpr 0]

He can easily find better canopies than Vengence.

There is a thread in Swooping and Canopy Control forum about Vengence.