Belly Flying

[woodpecker 0]

To become a good belly flyer, what are some of the things I should work on every dive? I'm not bad, I just find myself jumping lately with no real plan until I pitch and would like to hear from the experience on what skills should be worked on each jump.

Billy

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[AggieDave 6]

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I just find myself jumping lately with no real plan until I pitch

Practice doing nothing and you'll become very good at nothing.

Get a jump partner or two and start doing RW dives together. Download the Collegates 2-way dive pool or take the 4-way dive pool and eliminate one of the jumpers for 3-way dives. Then go practice, practice and practice again. You'll find that the dives are a LOT of fun and you'll start getting better.

Beyond that, if you want to spend the money, hook up with a good coach. Lots of people will say "go to the tunnel" which is definately worth the money. You can't learn how to exit or swoop a formation in the tunnel, though. You can practice tracking in the tunnel, just wear a helmet.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[RMURRAY 1]

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To become a good belly flyer, what are some of the things I should work on every dive? I'm not bad, I just find myself jumping lately with no real plan until I pitch and would like to hear from the experience on what skills should be worked on each jump.

Billy

maybe it is only me. how did we get to call it belly flying. I #ucking hate the term. to answer your question go to a tunnel and get good coaching EARLY ON. I wish I had.

rm

[kimemerson 7]

"belly flying" is a retronymn - a word coined because of a need due to the emergence of a new something. There was "guitar" until the electric guitar came along so now we have "acoustic guitar". Cars had "transmissions" and now those same transmissions are called "standard" since the advent of the automatic. Both "guitar" and "transmission" were just fine by themselves until the newer thing came along. So,"belly flying" as a term is necessary even if it's not pretty. There was never a need to distinguish until recently (well, 10 years or so). So, perhaps a more suitable term would tickle your fancy. I remember as sit flying first appeared, we called what the French - who brought it to us - called it: Chute assis. We also called it "inverted" flying. But "sit flying" stuck and there you have it. And what of freeflying? At first it was only head down but it soon took over and inccorporated sit flying so now there's really no separate discipline called sit flying. And with hybrids it's all inclusive. So we probably need something to distinguish disciplines. RW is inaccurate as anytinme we jump with someone else it's all relative - or ought to be. FS is in the same boat. Maybe you don't like the word belly?

[RMURRAY 1]

I don't like the word belly. I say just call it RW because that is what it was in the beginning.

rm

[shropshire 0]

RW doesn't really cut it though, does it? (I remember a time when that's all we had, well that and freestyle.) Because you can fly relative, flat, vertical or both (hybrid).

Personally, I can 'belly flying', flat... but it's just a name and so long as everyone understands you, does it matter?

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[StreetScooby 5]

Some suggestions:

1) Concentrate on your body position.
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RW requires a good box. Otherwise, you and your people won't be able to take all the various grips without introducing bobbles into the formation because of changing body positions. Keep your hands under the plane of your chin at all times. Keep your head up. Point your toes (...this will help your lower legs be rudders).

If someone is flying a box with their hands above their head, here's what can happen during a compressed grip: As soon as they take the leg grip (with their hands above their head) their body is below the other person's body. So, that person needs to bring their hands way down to take a compressed grip. As a result, they cup air, and a bobble is introduced into the formation.

2) Learn basic movements while keeping a box.
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a) Turn in place - this should take you about 25 2-ways with video. Get coaching here. It's well worth the money.

b) Translate sideways

c) Translate backwards

3) Get a group of people, and jump with them.
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This is one of the hardest parts of RW: finding people who'll keep jumping together.

a) Get a fall rate
This takes about 50 jumps with the same group of people. FALL FAST! RW translation/rotation is accomplished via deflective momentum. The force available to you varies with the square of your speed. The faster you fall, the smoother you can rotate/translate.

Don't make the fastest jumper dearch. By definition, they set the fall rate for everyone else. Wear weights. Do simple randoms until the fall rate is spot on.

b) Drill dives - lots of videos out there. Here's one dive I love: After you've done your 2-way turn in place dives, add a 3rd person. On this dive, two people take turns doing a 360 left, then a 360 right while one person remains stationary. This introduces lots of movement into your peripheral vision, which will be distracting at first. This will teach you to trust your judgement when it comes to staying in place.

4) Start trying to engineer dives
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Guy Manos introduced the PAKSS system many years ago.

a) P - puzzle
What formations are going to be built during the dive?

b) A - angles
What heading are the formations going to be built on, so as to minimize movement? Will the center of the formation need to be translated from the prior center? How much can you cheat the formation?

c) K - keys
Who is looking at whom, and when? How do you know when all grips have been taken, via eye contact signals?

d) SS - secret stuff
Start keeping a log. Buy a book. There's lots of stuff here. Get coaching.

5) Be safe
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Make sure your group wears chest mounted alitimeters. Your chest mount isn't for you, it's for the other people on the dive to look at. Also, make sure at least two people have a ditter. Good RW can be really good, and you don't want to lose altitude awareness.

We are all engines of karma

[kimemerson 7]

Of course, if you're doing a solo and you're face to earth, what's that relativie to? So RW works only when there's someone else in the vicinity regardless of body position. The Ranch has taken to calling it navelating, the proponets of which are called navelators. But how about tummy tumbling? Ok, we're not tumbling. This is such a dilemma.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks for sharing... I'll try some of that myself.. may stop me skating all of the sky (in 3 dimensions)

When you say Translate sideways/backwards... could you explain that a bit more please?

Also, me and my skydive mate ping apart when we drop grips (too much tension) - what sort of drills can we practise to remove this problem?

Regards,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Reginald 0]

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Also, me and my skydive mate ping apart when we drop grips (too much tension) - what sort of drills can we practise to remove this problem?

Well the obvious problem is that you are putting your feet on your ass even if ever so slightly (and backsliding) after you take grips. Thus the tension and moving apart when you release grips - so stop it! There should be NO tension on grips! The reality is this is a very common problem for people early in an RW progression. You should have slight positive pressure during grips so that you can release grips and stay relative. A basic drill to help fix this problem is taking and releasing grips and just flying relative for a few seconds and then taking grips again, etc.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[shropshire 0]

Makes sense... we'll try that - thanks.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[StreetScooby 5]

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When you say Translate sideways/backwards... could you explain that a bit more please?

For sideways translation practice, try this drill dive. It takes 4 people.

1) 2 people face off, take grips, and fall straight down.
2) The other two people take a side body on the same person.
3) Release grips, move sideways to a side body on the other person.
4) Rinse, repeat.
5) Do that 2 times per group.
6) Switch responsibilities (i.e., the two translators now face off, take grips, and fall straight down).

For backwards translation practice, try this drill dive. It takes 2 people.

1) Face off and take grips.
2) Break grips.
3) One person falls straight down.
4) The other person orbits the staitionary person, without changing their heading. This will give you practice going sidesways, forwards, and backwards.
5) Come back to the original 2 way, and let the other person try it.
6) Rinse, repeat.

It's not easy to do.

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Also, me and my skydive mate ping apart when we drop grips (too much tension) - what sort of drills can we practise to remove this problem?

Don't take grips. Just touch fingertips. See how long you can stay relaxed in this position. After 2 or 3 dives, you should have that problem solved.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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Thanks for sharing... I'll try some of that myself.. may stop me skating all of the sky (in 3 dimensionsFrown)

Arch hard through your pelvis (i.e., stick your dick in the dirt). That should keep you to two dimensions, if you have a fall rate with the other person.

We are all engines of karma

[shropshire 0]

Thanks again... we'll see how it goes next time.

Cheers,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[StreetScooby 5]

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Thanks again... we'll see how it goes next time.

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Arch hard through your pelvis (i.e., stick your dick in the dirt). That should keep you to two dimensions, if you have a fall rate with the other person.

Don't forget to keep your hands under the plane of your chin. And, point your toes.

If you can't keep a "relatively flat" body position while pointing your dick HARD into the earth, while keeping a fallrate with the other people, it's time to add weight.

If you're setting the fall rate, then it's time for the other people to add weight.

Getting a group of people with your experience level to have a solid fall rate together is going to be hard. Focus on 2-ways.

We are all engines of karma

[woodpecker 0]

So when i'm soloing, work on keeping my hands under my chin and keeping toes pointed? Anything else (while solo)?

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[peckerhead 0]

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maybe it is only me. how did we get to call it belly flying. I #ucking hate the term.

I totaly agree. It is obviously meant to be some sort of insult.

Maybe we should call sit flyers "butt flyers"

[kallend 2,148]

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So when i'm soloing, work on keeping my hands under my chin and keeping toes pointed? Anything else (while solo)?

Practice tracking. Tracking is a life saving skill required on every multi-person skydive.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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maybe it is only me. how did we get to call it belly flying. I #ucking hate the term.

I totaly agree. It is obviously meant to be some sort of insult.

Why? Belly dancers aren't embarassed by the term. Why should we be?

[mjosparky 4]

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Why? Belly dancers aren't embarassed by the term. Why should we be?

This is just in case you haven’t noticed; skydiving is a little different then belly dancing. At least if you do it right.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Mush 0]

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I totaly agree. It is obviously meant to be some sort of insult.

Maybe we should call sit flyers "butt flyers"

You should start a new thread with this one.

[StreetScooby 5]

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So when i'm soloing, work on keeping my hands under my chin and keeping toes pointed? Anything else (while solo)?

Another thing you can do is pick a road, or something similar, and use that as a reference point. Practice turning in place. You should be able to get a feel for how well you're falling in place.

I also agree with Kallend. Tracking is very important.

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

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Why? Belly dancers aren't embarassed by the term. Why should we be?

This is just in case you haven’t noticed; skydiving is a little different then belly dancing. At least if you do it right.

and that means we need to be uptight and insecure?

Doesn't seem so. Is this more of that senseless rivalry between the different disciplines?

[StreetScooby 5]

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So when i'm soloing, work on keeping my hands under my chin

By the way, you don't need to keep your hands directly under you chin. Just under the plane of your chin. Keep your box, which will put your hands a good ways away from your chin.

We are all engines of karma

[woodpecker 0]

Thanks for all the advice and I will work on it all next time I jump. Meant to today, but had an opportunity to work on my sitflying (are we still calling it sitflying, or should I call it BUTT RW since another jumper was inthe air with me)

Thanks again

Billy

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?