mjosparky 4 #26 July 17, 2006 QuoteWas that at Hill? And yes, that's the color of blue that was etched into my Bonehead. No, that was at an un-named military test center. It was a real "E" ticket ride.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #27 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteAfter reading the post above mine I will add"I jump with one" the rest of my post still stands.If you won't jump without one you maybe should not be jumping. . I think thats probably the dumbest statement perpetuating on this forum. at my DZ you will not be jumping without an AAD wether you want to or not. Some people see them as integral pieces of equipement, making blanket statements like this is pointless and dumb JMO Maybe you should go back and read the first post.At least I was able to give my opinion without an insult.Since I'm not allowed to say s****d f****r on here anymore I'll end my post now.. PM SentYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #28 July 17, 2006 QuoteI was on a jump where the AAD caused two out due to a very low pull of the main - and the person died in a downplane. I think this should be worded differently, something like this: I was on a jump where a very low pull of the main caused the AAD to fire, resulting in a downplane situation that was not dealt with properly killing the skydiver on impact Wording the statement like this places the blame on the operator, not the computer that was functioning within its designed parameters. The skydiver made two huge mistakes resulting in their death. _Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #29 July 17, 2006 I'd jump it without the AAD till the AAD shows up. Then I'd have it installed and jump with the AAD __ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #30 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAfter reading the post above mine I will add"I jump with one" the rest of my post still stands.If you won't jump without one you maybe should not be jumping. . I think thats probably the dumbest statement perpetuating on this forum. at my DZ you will not be jumping without an AAD wether you want to or not. Some people see them as integral pieces of equipement, making blanket statements like this is pointless and dumb JMO Maybe you should go back and read the first post.At least I was able to give my opinion without an insult.Since I'm not allowed to say s****d f****r on here anymore I'll end my post now.. PM Sent PM read.This is not a private matter.I stated MY opinion on the matter.I trully believe that if the lack of an AAD keeps you from jumping then you should take a real hard look at yourself.People everywhere are looking for guarantees in everything and there just are none in skydiving.Someone who looks to an AAD to guarantee their safety is in my opinion just another lawsuit looking for a victim.If that is a dumb way to think than so be it. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cHoDaBoY 0 #31 July 17, 2006 Here is my take on AADs. If I was not wearing one I would probably stick to plain old bellyflying, since not to much exciting stuff happens on those jumps. Now if I did have my AAD I would probably be doing more fun jumps, like freeflying or hybrids and stuff. Basically when you dont have one because its away for its service, its a good time to catch up on some belly crap turning points of whatever it is they do up there. Save the exciting stuff for when the AAD returns. Is it getting hot in here? Q. Why do birds sing? A. Because they dont have to pack when they land Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #32 July 17, 2006 QuotePM read.This is not a private matter.I stated MY opinion on the matter.I trully believe that if the lack of an AAD keeps you from jumping then you should take a real hard look at yourself.People everywhere are looking for guarantees in everything and there just are none in skydiving.Someone who looks to an AAD to guarantee their safety is in my opinion just another lawsuit looking for a victim.If that is a dumb way to think than so be it. I won't jump without an ADD, and I know the risk of this sport. I've never looked to my ADD as being a guarantee that I will be okay if some thing bad happens. But, having that backup devise on my back, isn't going to hurt me either.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #33 July 17, 2006 Quote But, having that backup devise on my back, isn't going to hurt me either. . . . or will it . . . hmmm . . . the debate continues . . . ZZZZZzzzzzzzzYou think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #34 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuote But, having that backup devise on my back, isn't going to hurt me either. . . . or will it . . . hmmm . . . the debate continues . . . ZZZZZzzzzzzzz Since I've been in this sport for 25 years. I think I can honestly say that the number of deaths due to a cypress misfire, compared to the number of saves is very broad. I know the risk, and am educated enough in the sport of skydiving, and know there are no guarantees. With that in mind, I'll say it again. I will not jump without my cypress.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #35 July 17, 2006 Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers . . . I respect everyone's needs to feel comfortable about jumping. When I got my "A", and stopped using student/rental gear, I started using a friends spare rig with no AAD. At first it screwed with my head, but after 3 or 4 jumps, I can't say that I'm bothered about not having one. This opinion may change in the near future when I get into situations with more "traffic" in freefall. There's no doubt that the pros out-weigh the cons with AAD's.You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caspar 0 #36 July 17, 2006 maybe think about if others want to jump with you without a AAD? ive decided for the moment im not jumping with anyone without one. why? skills arent great and id hate to imagine what id go through if i knocked someone out in freefall and killed them. that doesnt mean i do more dangerous stuff witth AADs, its just shit happens. you can do everything right and still get killed - OR KILL SOMEONE ELSE im sure my point of view will change with experience."When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #37 July 17, 2006 So, do you ask everyone on the plane or beforehand at manifest if everyone on the load has an ADD? Or everyone you are jumping with? Otherwise, how would you know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #38 July 17, 2006 QuoteSince I've been in this sport for 25 years. I think I can honestly say that the number of deaths due to a cypress misfire, compared to the number of saves is very broad. And how many saves were due to the jumper fucking up? How many could have saved themselves? I know you don't let the cypres replace skillsets...But I bet you know someone who does. And is that OK?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #39 July 17, 2006 Quote And how many saves were due to the jumper fucking up? How many could have saved themselves? Lots and lots. I don't have numbers. You and I have both seen it happen. QuoteI know you don't let the cypres replace skillsets...But I bet you know someone who does. Yup, in fact he was given the "bowling" speech. QuoteAnd is that OK? Nope. Ron, you know my skill level, I'm not about to go up on a skydive and think a cypress is going to save me if I fuck up. But, I don't mind having that extra help around when and if I need it. For me personally, I won't jump without a cypress. But that's just me, and I won't ever belittle some one who wants to jump without a cypress. Hell, I have a number of jumps without a cypress, they didn't have them back thenMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #40 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteSince I've been in this sport for 25 years. I think I can honestly say that the number of deaths due to a cypress misfire, compared to the number of saves is very broad. And how many saves were due to the jumper fucking up? How many could have saved themselves? I know you don't let the cypres replace skillsets...But I bet you know someone who does. And is that OK? I don't see what you're getting at. Fucking up is NOT OK, but neither should it incur a death penalty. One can aspire to perfection but it is prudent to assume that one will not achieve it. We both know of very highly skilled skydivers who are now dead on account of making a mistake.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #41 July 18, 2006 QuoteI don't see what you're getting at My question was if it was OK to use a CYPRES to replace a skillset. QuoteOne can aspire to perfection but it is prudent to assume that one will not achieve it. But is it OK not to try since you have a backup?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernguru 0 #42 July 18, 2006 One thing I can say to this is that without a cyprus I would not be sitting here today. I was knocked out by someone flying into me and without the cyprus there is no way that I would have survived. It's a chance you take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #43 July 18, 2006 Why is a cyprus ? Is it some new toy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #44 July 18, 2006 QuoteOne thing I can say to this is that without a cyprus I would not be sitting here today. I was knocked out by someone flying into me and without the cyprus there is no way that I would have survived. It's a chance you take. And that is why I recommend that people use one. But not at the cost of not training, or doing more dangerous things since they have one. I don't think a mistake should be fatal. I do think we should use our heads to not get into dangerous situations."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #45 July 18, 2006 QuoteWhy is a cyprus ? Is it some new toy? Why is it? What does than mean? Cyprus is an island in the Mediterranean.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustard 0 #46 July 18, 2006 Quoteor me personally, I won't jump without a cypress. But that's just me, and I won't ever belittle some one who wants to jump without a cypress. Hell, I have a number of jumps without a cypress, they didn't have them back then. I just recently went through this thrash in my head. I also jumped "back in the days" with Mary when the only AADs available were FXCs and Sentinels, and experienced jumpers wouldn't jump with you if you used one. I had about a thousand jumps before getting my first cypres. So it turned out on my last repack that my cypres needed its 4-year check. I told the rigger to pack it up and send it in, that I would jump without it until the cypres came back. I remember when I put that rig on the first time without it I went to turn on the nonexistent cypres and had a moment of hesitation... but then I got over it and went out and made three skydives that first day. By the end of the day I was used to it again, after thousands of jumps with one. I wasn't as comfortable as normal on the airplane ride, although I know for a fact I will pull for myself. But by the time I was in freefall, it was a non-issue. Who thinks about the cypres then? I remember years ago when some jumpers chose to do some low RW jumps (because of clouds) at Lost Prairie and decided to intentionally turn off their cypreses. It was a 4-way, and the two cypreses that were not turned off fired; one cut away and the other landed two out. But the two who intentionally turned theirs off got a lot of grief for their decisions. It seems to me that people should make their own decision about automatic openers because it's an individual decision. There is something kind of empowering when you realize that there is NOTHING between you and the ground but you. *** DJan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherGoose 0 #47 July 19, 2006 QuoteThere is something kind of empowering when you realize that there is NOTHING between you and the ground but you. VERY . . . VERY well put . . .You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
