bmcd308 0 #26 August 5, 2004 A baglock is a partial malfunction. Cut it away and pull your reserve. There is room for discussion about whether a PC in tow is a partial malfunction or a total malfunction. I consider it a partial malfunction because I have deployed a portion of my main system. Others will call it a total because the pin is still in. At some point this is really just semantics. There are two schools of thought on PC in tow - go straight to reserve or cutaway and pull reserve. Both have their potential drawbacks. Personally, I'm cutting away and pulling my reserve. It is possible that after I do that, others will post in the incidents forum that they told me so. A PC in tow is a nasty situation that should be carefully avoided by cocking your pilot chute and routing your bridle correctly. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #27 August 5, 2004 Quote> Does he say that for a total malfunction? If so, he's wrong. That's what we teach. Even for a total. Having one procedure that works for everything is easier on first jump students, and pulling the cutaway handle on a rig with good riser covers does a student no harm. Sorry, it's a shameless attempt on my part at stirring the pot. We teach the other way, and I practice what I teach. I feel anything that slows down getting the reserve out can be harmful. You've been in this sport long enough to know what I mean. One-size-fits-all procedures are usually a compromise, not the best way of doing things. With that said, our DZ has SOS systems for students, so our emergency procedures are very simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #28 August 5, 2004 >I feel anything that slows down getting the reserve out can be harmful. While I agree, that's less of an issue for students pulling at 5000 feet than experienced jumpers pulling at 2000. >With that said, our DZ has SOS systems for students, so our >emergency procedures are very simple. Which is effectively cutaway-and-pull-your-reserve, just with one fewer step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #29 August 5, 2004 Our student rigs are equipped with RSLs as well but when I posed the question regarding the "need" to pull silver after red the answer was also to simply "pull everything until your goggles fill with blood". (old Special Forces guys are cool ) I would not bet my life on having it (the RSL) function perfectly in the event of a highly unstable or spinning cutaway. What type of failure is a "total mal"... a failure to get your PC out of the BOC pouch for instance? What else is considered a "total mal" I figured a PC in tow would have been included in that group but I guess it is still a "partial mal"NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #30 August 5, 2004 >What type of failure is a "total mal" . . . Generally, a failure where nothing comes out. Stuck PC (on a throwout) or container lock (on a pullout or ripcord) would apply here. The SIM also defines a PC in tow as a total mal, but many people consider that a partial since something is out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #31 August 5, 2004 QuoteOur student rigs are equipped with RSLs as well but when I posed the question regarding the "need" to pull silver after red the answer was also to simply "pull everything until your goggles fill with blood". Wouldn't this saying be more appropriate as "Pull everything in the right order until your goggles fill with blood" or something? Pulling everything could cause your goggles to fill with blood if you pull everything out of sequence. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #32 August 5, 2004 Well, the remark "is" out of context technically. In the context of the discussion with the AS&T it was implied that yes, we were talking about throw-out/red/silver being the order. I imagine doing it in reverse would possibly lead to a nice crater adjacent to the DZ. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #33 August 8, 2004 QuoteThat's what we teach. Even for a total. Having one procedure that works for everything is easier on first jump students, and pulling the cutaway handle on a rig with good riser covers does a student no harm. Bill, this just made me think of something else. I've just done my conversions to a TAS, so the proceedure is fairly new to me. If you have a total mal or PC in tow - basically a mal where the risers will remain under the tuck flaps and in place, if you dont cutaway first to release the 3 rings would there be a possibility of the reserve risers being fouled at all by the main risers? I'm guessing the chance of this would be minimal (from what was being said earlier in this thread), if not non-existant, but now I'm thinking about it, so I want to know! Obviously the main risers would still be there, but cuting away would release the 3 rings to allow more 'give' for the reserve risers. Is this the right train of thought or would cutting away/not cutting away make no difference in this case? (I know you wont tell me not to cut away, since you dont want to confuse the emeregency procedures I've learnt, but in theory only - would cutting away make a difference?)www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #34 August 8, 2004 *** Bill, this just made me think of something else. I've just done my conversions to a TAS, so the proceedure is fairly new to me. If you have a total mal or PC in tow - basically a mal where the risers will remain under the tuck flaps and in place, if you dont cutaway first to release the 3 rings would there be a possibility of the reserve risers being fouled at all by the main risers? I'm guessing the chance of this would be minimal (from what was being said earlier in this thread), if not non-existant, but now I'm thinking about it, so I want to know! Obviously the main risers would still be there, but cuting away would release the 3 rings to allow more 'give' for the reserve risers. Is this the right train of thought or would cutting away/not cutting away make no difference in this case? (I know you wont tell me not to cut away, since you dont want to confuse the emeregency procedures I've learnt, but in theory only - would cutting away make a difference?) The reserve will open just fine with the main and it's risers hooked up. The pilot chute will launch, the bag leave and the chute will open well above any interference between the two sets of risers. I've had 3 totals on modern gear (one a certification test jump of a new container system) and I did not cut away and there was no problem. My totals did not include a pilot chute in tow scenario. That's a whole new debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #35 August 9, 2004 Thanks!www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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