EDYDO 0 #1 July 26, 2004 I normally grab my risers on opening, but I am re-thinking that procedure. On Saturday my Sabre2 did one of those "slam" openings (never happened before) and spun up catching my left hand in the risers as well as my altimeter. It pinned my chin to my chest, quite awkward and painful. Even though I couldn't see my altimeter (or my canopy), I was altitude aware and could see my handles and if needed could have cut away with the right hand. It would have been scary if it had been my right hand that was caught!!! It cleared and landing was uneventful. Have I been alone in grabbing risers early during opening? Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #2 July 26, 2004 I have a friend who broke both of his pinkies like that. Yes, at the same time.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #3 July 26, 2004 I had the exact same thing happen to me yesterday, except it was my right hand. I got out of it by un-velcroing my glove and yanking my hand out, then kicking out of the line twists. I guess I'm going to have to stop making a habit out of grabbing my risers on opening. When I felt my hand get caught as the lines started to twist, my first thought was "please don't start spinning." I got lucky and it flew stable while I worked things out. I'm still trying to figure out what I should have done if it had turned into a spinner. The best I can come up with is to cut away, hope I clear the main, then go to my reserve. Not really a satisfying solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #4 July 26, 2004 I grab them ONCE I have line stretch. I had a slammer today, and I am so glad my hands were not NEAR the risers... Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #5 July 26, 2004 I grab mine once the canopy is snivelling. Until then, my hands are off to the side by about a foot.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 July 26, 2004 Sometimes, if my canopy needs the extra "motivation." Usually I'm just flying using harness input. I've bloodies my fingers too many times with a fast moving slider that way. Its a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though...grabbing the risers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #7 July 26, 2004 After accidently popping one brake a few times, I stopped grabbing the risers. Once I began jumping ellipticals, I started reaching up and hooking my hands inside the risers and pulling the risers outward as hard as I can. The objective is to get the links as far apart as possible to help prevent line twist. Funny story I recently heard: An experienced jumper, (who always grabs his risers), was acting as a tandem passenger for a training jump. Immediately after opening, he heard these words from the TI: "Don't make any sudden moves!!! Now slowly open your hands and take them off of the emergency handles.""There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #8 July 26, 2004 I think it's pretty important to get on rear risers immediately after opening. If you have to turn suddenly to avoid a collision, having your hands there is critical. Perhaps waiting another 1/4 second would let the canopy start opening, and would still let you get your hands on the risers in time to dodge someone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #9 July 26, 2004 QuoteIts a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though I used to think that with my velocity, now I know better. It took two cutaways to teach me that I should leave the risers alone until the canopy has stopped snivelling. I have my hands up high ready to grab the risers if needed to avoid a collision. Otherwise, just as you said, harness input is all you need to keep the canopy from going into unrecoverable line twists. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friflaj 0 #10 July 26, 2004 QuoteI think it's pretty important to get on rear risers immediately after opening. But it may bear qualifying what 'after opening' is. I used to grab my risers pretty much immediately after the pitch, and that was OK, since my Stiletto opened in a snap. Now that I'm flying a Safire, the slider comes down just that much later, which resulted in sore thumbs for the first 3 jumps . I now just look up after I feel the snatch, wait for the slider to come down, then grab. I might grab if the slider takes too long, but when moving to a Safire, a little patience is required Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Maxx 1 #11 July 26, 2004 Someone told me, that there was a wingsuit flyer who grabbed his risers during opening, but his canopy went into a hard spin. Both of his hands got twisted up with the risers and he couldn't release one of them. There he was, flying like jesus nailed to the cross and he couldn't do anything. At a very low altitude he managed to clear his right hand out of the mess and cutaway. He is still alive now, but his reserve ride wasn't very long... I personally grab my risers after the first stage of the opening.. At that time you can see mostly if your canopy is going to be OK or if it's doing something strange. Sure, I made my fingers also bloody because I grabbed to early and then had a twist... Feet up! Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #12 July 26, 2004 I always grab my rear risers from the outside, once the canopy is out of the bag. Once the canopy is open, I am immediately flying it with rear risers until I know my airspace is clear and I'm pointing toward the windline (or the landing area). Sorry to hear about your incident - kinda scary. I jump a Sabre2 also, and I've only had one less than perfect opening with it (sloppy packing - slider rebound).Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #13 July 26, 2004 QuoteIts a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though...grabbing the risers. That's why I'm grabbing the risers immediately after my canopy begins to snivel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luv2Fall 0 #14 July 26, 2004 Yep, I grap the rear risers immediately upon opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #15 July 26, 2004 Don't do it. Your thoughts of being able to cut away have obviously not gone far enough to realise you'd have your main canopy in tow attached to your hand - and that you risk entanglement with your reserve should you pull it, or the RSL releases it, or your AAD fires. You are also at risk of hand fractures. Don't do it. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #16 July 26, 2004 QuoteSomeone told me, that there was a wingsuit flyer who grabbed his risers during opening.... Really? Ever tried to grab your risers wearing a wing suit without zipping out of the suit / releasing the arms first? That story sounds like bullshit to me... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #17 July 26, 2004 QuoteReally? Ever tried to grab your risers wearing a wing suit without zipping out of the suit / releasing the arms first? Yep, with the S3 I can grab the 3 rings and about 3 inches up on the risers There is no steering going to be happening that way. Unless the person was in a Matter/LYB suit I can't see it happening.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ifics 0 #18 July 26, 2004 QuoteI have a friend who broke both of his pinkies like that. Yes, at the same time. Hmm.. It must hit in about the same place, I always reached immediately but on Saturday had an opening that makes you grunt.. My pinkie finger is badly bruised today and hurt all weekend. I will wait until line stretch now.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #19 July 26, 2004 On skydives I leave my risers alone until I need to do something with them. I used to hang on during opening, although after changing to slinks I got bloody fingers from the slider gromets and it is possible to get stuck up there if you develop severe line twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EDYDO 0 #20 July 26, 2004 I cannot know for sure, but upon reflection, I think I know what caused the spin-up on my canopy. It was one of those "aw, it'll be fine" pack jobs. I recall that there was very little line slack between the bag and the riser. This caused a little line tension against the reserve pack inside the tray. It was "sort of" pulling the risers toward the center. I believe that as the bag lifted from the tray that one line side caught, the other was free and the bag probably spun off of my back. I will be careful to try two things, at least for a while. 1. Leave a little (more) slack between the riser and the bag. 2. Be ready, but touch risers as late as possible. All comments have been helpful and I hope relating the experience has been helpful to others in deciding what is best for them. By the way, I do not have (nor want) an RSL on my freefall rig. My record is still intact. I haven't had to cut away since before most of you were born (1972). Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #21 July 26, 2004 QuoteYour thoughts of being able to cut away have obviously not gone far enough to realise you'd have your main canopy in tow attached to your hand -... A REALLY BIG hook knife, such as a Jack the knife might help in a situation like that. ...So as to sever the offending/entangled appendage or appendages (fingers), if necessary before cut-away. Good luck. ...Have fun! BTW, I always have my hands in position to "fly the canopy open" & steer via rear risers once the canopy has left the bag (ie: upon snivel) as well. By that point, it is usually easy enough to tell whether line-twists are either already present or developing. Sounds to me as if this jumper was just a tad bit TOO "QUICK" on the draw to have his hands "in there" before they needed to be. Once the canopy has begun to "stand you up" you should be able to tell whether or not, and WHERE to be able to place your hands (rear risers or even both ...to pull apart) without getting them otherwise entangled. Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwmike 0 #22 July 27, 2004 QuoteSometimes, if my canopy needs the extra "motivation." Usually I'm just flying using harness input. I've bloodies my fingers too many times with a fast moving slider that way. Its a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though...grabbing the risers. Sorry about the boo boos on your fingers and all, but my hands are on my rear risers as I get line stretch ...ready to make emergency evasive maneuvers if the need arises. Do you wear gloves? If not just cowboy the fuck up and be ready to avoid a collision on every opening. BSBD, Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #23 July 27, 2004 I only grab the risers if the opening is starting to look offheading or if I see that I need to avoid someone ASAP. During the deployment, I'm grabbing from the outside and pulling outward. By doing this, a big, strong, unstoppable twist will rip the risers out of your hands, rather than wrap around them. 80% of the time, I don't touch anything (BASE jumps are definitely an exception). More than 50% of my jumps are in a wingsuit, and I really don't make much attempt to grab the risers (though I can a little bit). I aim to pack and pitch in a manner that avoids off heading openings and the need for corrective maneuvres. But I do occassionally get off headings, and I generally just let them go unless I'm in any sort of traffic (small-way wingsuit jumps generally have good separation). This is what I do right now for whatever reasons. I'm not preaching this to anyone, and my practice is subject to change with experience and advice."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #24 July 27, 2004 QuoteDo you wear gloves? If not just cowboy the fuck up and be ready to avoid a collision on every opening. I do now (and have for the past 800 jumps or so). When I get the chance, I'll post a video from a boogie back in June where myself and another jumper had 180 openings (admitily after some 1/2 assed tracking) and almost got some quick CReW. If my hands hadn't been on the rears ready to go, we would have. Since my hands were there, I hard climb, picked up my feet, added some turn and popped down right next to him so we could chat. (We actually did, I popped up and over, we said a couple of funny things to each other about what almost happened, we bumped endcells and peeled away from each other...we're really good friends and jump buddies).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #25 July 27, 2004 I tend to not grab my risers immediately because I use my harness weight at first. Legstrap pressure isn't for everyone though. However, I think that people should learn to use their rear risers to gain control as soon as possible. They want to be able to react to possible collisions. They should grab their rear risers and check their airspace before doing anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Maxx 1 #11 July 26, 2004 Someone told me, that there was a wingsuit flyer who grabbed his risers during opening, but his canopy went into a hard spin. Both of his hands got twisted up with the risers and he couldn't release one of them. There he was, flying like jesus nailed to the cross and he couldn't do anything. At a very low altitude he managed to clear his right hand out of the mess and cutaway. He is still alive now, but his reserve ride wasn't very long... I personally grab my risers after the first stage of the opening.. At that time you can see mostly if your canopy is going to be OK or if it's doing something strange. Sure, I made my fingers also bloody because I grabbed to early and then had a twist... Feet up! Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #12 July 26, 2004 I always grab my rear risers from the outside, once the canopy is out of the bag. Once the canopy is open, I am immediately flying it with rear risers until I know my airspace is clear and I'm pointing toward the windline (or the landing area). Sorry to hear about your incident - kinda scary. I jump a Sabre2 also, and I've only had one less than perfect opening with it (sloppy packing - slider rebound).Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #13 July 26, 2004 QuoteIts a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though...grabbing the risers. That's why I'm grabbing the risers immediately after my canopy begins to snivel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #14 July 26, 2004 Yep, I grap the rear risers immediately upon opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #15 July 26, 2004 Don't do it. Your thoughts of being able to cut away have obviously not gone far enough to realise you'd have your main canopy in tow attached to your hand - and that you risk entanglement with your reserve should you pull it, or the RSL releases it, or your AAD fires. You are also at risk of hand fractures. Don't do it. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #16 July 26, 2004 QuoteSomeone told me, that there was a wingsuit flyer who grabbed his risers during opening.... Really? Ever tried to grab your risers wearing a wing suit without zipping out of the suit / releasing the arms first? That story sounds like bullshit to me... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #17 July 26, 2004 QuoteReally? Ever tried to grab your risers wearing a wing suit without zipping out of the suit / releasing the arms first? Yep, with the S3 I can grab the 3 rings and about 3 inches up on the risers There is no steering going to be happening that way. Unless the person was in a Matter/LYB suit I can't see it happening.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #18 July 26, 2004 QuoteI have a friend who broke both of his pinkies like that. Yes, at the same time. Hmm.. It must hit in about the same place, I always reached immediately but on Saturday had an opening that makes you grunt.. My pinkie finger is badly bruised today and hurt all weekend. I will wait until line stretch now.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #19 July 26, 2004 On skydives I leave my risers alone until I need to do something with them. I used to hang on during opening, although after changing to slinks I got bloody fingers from the slider gromets and it is possible to get stuck up there if you develop severe line twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EDYDO 0 #20 July 26, 2004 I cannot know for sure, but upon reflection, I think I know what caused the spin-up on my canopy. It was one of those "aw, it'll be fine" pack jobs. I recall that there was very little line slack between the bag and the riser. This caused a little line tension against the reserve pack inside the tray. It was "sort of" pulling the risers toward the center. I believe that as the bag lifted from the tray that one line side caught, the other was free and the bag probably spun off of my back. I will be careful to try two things, at least for a while. 1. Leave a little (more) slack between the riser and the bag. 2. Be ready, but touch risers as late as possible. All comments have been helpful and I hope relating the experience has been helpful to others in deciding what is best for them. By the way, I do not have (nor want) an RSL on my freefall rig. My record is still intact. I haven't had to cut away since before most of you were born (1972). Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #21 July 26, 2004 QuoteYour thoughts of being able to cut away have obviously not gone far enough to realise you'd have your main canopy in tow attached to your hand -... A REALLY BIG hook knife, such as a Jack the knife might help in a situation like that. ...So as to sever the offending/entangled appendage or appendages (fingers), if necessary before cut-away. Good luck. ...Have fun! BTW, I always have my hands in position to "fly the canopy open" & steer via rear risers once the canopy has left the bag (ie: upon snivel) as well. By that point, it is usually easy enough to tell whether line-twists are either already present or developing. Sounds to me as if this jumper was just a tad bit TOO "QUICK" on the draw to have his hands "in there" before they needed to be. Once the canopy has begun to "stand you up" you should be able to tell whether or not, and WHERE to be able to place your hands (rear risers or even both ...to pull apart) without getting them otherwise entangled. Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #22 July 27, 2004 QuoteSometimes, if my canopy needs the extra "motivation." Usually I'm just flying using harness input. I've bloodies my fingers too many times with a fast moving slider that way. Its a quick way to stop a possible line twists while still 1/2 way through the snivel though...grabbing the risers. Sorry about the boo boos on your fingers and all, but my hands are on my rear risers as I get line stretch ...ready to make emergency evasive maneuvers if the need arises. Do you wear gloves? If not just cowboy the fuck up and be ready to avoid a collision on every opening. BSBD, Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #23 July 27, 2004 I only grab the risers if the opening is starting to look offheading or if I see that I need to avoid someone ASAP. During the deployment, I'm grabbing from the outside and pulling outward. By doing this, a big, strong, unstoppable twist will rip the risers out of your hands, rather than wrap around them. 80% of the time, I don't touch anything (BASE jumps are definitely an exception). More than 50% of my jumps are in a wingsuit, and I really don't make much attempt to grab the risers (though I can a little bit). I aim to pack and pitch in a manner that avoids off heading openings and the need for corrective maneuvres. But I do occassionally get off headings, and I generally just let them go unless I'm in any sort of traffic (small-way wingsuit jumps generally have good separation). This is what I do right now for whatever reasons. I'm not preaching this to anyone, and my practice is subject to change with experience and advice."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #24 July 27, 2004 QuoteDo you wear gloves? If not just cowboy the fuck up and be ready to avoid a collision on every opening. I do now (and have for the past 800 jumps or so). When I get the chance, I'll post a video from a boogie back in June where myself and another jumper had 180 openings (admitily after some 1/2 assed tracking) and almost got some quick CReW. If my hands hadn't been on the rears ready to go, we would have. Since my hands were there, I hard climb, picked up my feet, added some turn and popped down right next to him so we could chat. (We actually did, I popped up and over, we said a couple of funny things to each other about what almost happened, we bumped endcells and peeled away from each other...we're really good friends and jump buddies).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #25 July 27, 2004 I tend to not grab my risers immediately because I use my harness weight at first. Legstrap pressure isn't for everyone though. However, I think that people should learn to use their rear risers to gain control as soon as possible. They want to be able to react to possible collisions. They should grab their rear risers and check their airspace before doing anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
