Listening to music when you jump? would it work?

[DJL 235]

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Ah but here is the difference, you can ONLY fly CRW when you are jumping, you can ONLY do a tube dive in the air, you can ONLY do a Mr. Bill when skydiving, you can ONLY do a bigway from a plane. These acts DO increase the risk. But they also can only be done in the air. You can listen to music on the ground, you can't do CRW in your living room.

You can also only listen to music while skydiving when you're skydiving. It's just another jump with its own distractions that you must deal with specifically.

I haven't done it but I'm looking forward to opening high and flying around solo sometime while listening to some music.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Ron 10]

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You're right no risk of death, just copyright lawsuits. Sorry, ain't going there. Stealing music just isn't in my lexicon.

Making a video mix for your home use is not going to get you in trouble....Hell, send a copy to the artist.

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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You apparently are one of those folks that doesn't understand music and what it means to some people.

This is a load of crap. I could say the same about you...."You are one of those people who do not understand how dangerous skydiving can be and refuse to be serious about it. And I'll never understand those people". Does that sound right to you?

Since I "Do not understand music"...Care to explain why I went to a bar in Nashville last night and saw Brent Mason playing?

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Music *isn't* a distraction unless you allow it to be, but I dont' think you'll ever get that

Tell that to drivers Ed teachers...Oh BTW I teach defensive driving for my work.

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Is music a distraction when you're watching a movie? Or is it part of the experience, driving the moment forward?

WATCHING, not needing to perform in a high stress environment with possible fatal outcomes.

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FWIW, it's been proven over and over again that music improves muscle memory, provides cognizant associative feedback, and is a valuable tool for sports training

For repetative tasks, yes. Not for complex changing situations in a high speed environment. If you could claim that your music would change if you need to cutaway, I would agree. But, thats not the case here. In fact this argument goes AGAINST you. Lets say you listen to a song all the time and at 60 seconds in a drum solo starts and you pull since you are at 4 grand. Well you would be training yourself to pull at the drum solo and if you got out higher or lower it would change your pull altitude.

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On the other hand, you'll have a hard difficult time convincing me that I'm putting myself or others at greater risk by listening to music when I'm alone on a skydive, with no one else behind me, and me pulling high to enjoy my tunes that much longer

If you are on a solo with no one around...I could not care less what you do. But you do increase your risk.

So lest recap...I don't "understand" music. But I went to a little concert last night to hear Bret Mason play hotwire.

I don't understand distrations...Even though I teach defensive driving.

I don't understand skydiving, even though I am an AFF I, SL I, Tandem I.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DSE 5]

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Making a video mix for your home use is not going to get you in trouble....Hell, send a copy to the artist.

Your post was specifically addressed making videos with soundtracks "so everyone can enjoy it."

I'm not going to go down the road of changing the context or attitude of the thread, but will explain that I work in the entertainment industry, I take exception to people who steal music and put their own videos to the songs and put them up on the web or worse, make DVDs of them and sell them.

As far as the rest of your post, maybe you feel better by attempting to insert new meaning words I wrote? I didn't in the LEAST hint anything remotely connected with your skydiving competency.
Maybe you went to the bar to have a drink? To see a friend? Get away from the wife? Sorry, out of guesses why you went to the bar.
I understand Brent Mason was playing. And maybe you like him, but watching him play/hearing him perform sure as hell doesn't mean you "understand music."

Gee....I produced segments of an international race last week, does that qualify me to "understand" a professional race competitor? Not to my knowledge...
...I performed with Elton John in January. Does that qualify me to "understand" his level of stardom? Of course not. It's about as irrelevant and irresponsible reply as I can make.
I'm a multi-Grammy and Emmy recipient. Are you seriously somehow suggesting that because you're AFF/Tandem/Static Line rated that you understand music the way I do?? How you drew those parallels is bafflingly beyond me.

[side note, I can see how you'd consider Brent Mason a "distraction." "Hot Wired" is very in-your-face excepting "Lil' Ballerina."]

I wonder if the tandem instructors should worry, because the packers wear headphones while packing tandems.
Do you (improperly)equate headphones with not being able to hear what's going on, or see what's happening around you?

In *your* view I increase my risk. In my view, I reduce it, and equally importantly, I enjoy the skydive more than I would have otherwise.

If and when on a very rare last-out, pull-high sunset dives with headphones I happen to damage myself, you can recall my posts and tell the world "See! See! I told you so!" You're even welcome to my MP3 player if you want it (if you enjoy Mason, you'll love my music library).

Until then, enjoy your angst. I choose to appreciate music instead.

[Ron 10]

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Your post was specifically addressed making videos with soundtracks "so everyone can enjoy it."

You have never seen a video at someone elses house? Or at a DZ bar? You put "selling them" into it. I never said to sell anything.

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As far as the rest of your post, maybe you feel better by attempting to insert new meaning words I wrote? I didn't in the LEAST hint anything remotely connected with your skydiving competency.

No but you sure did try and take a slam that I don't know about Music. But music knowledge does not mean jack when skydiving.... But anyway, guess where I was today? I was in Nashville at the press release of Marshall Grants new book about Johnny Cash, "I was there when it happend". When I get home, I'll gladly post pics of me holding one of Cash's guitars.

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I'm a multi-Grammy and Emmy recipient. Are you seriously somehow suggesting that because you're AFF/Tandem/Static Line rated that you understand music the way I do?? How you drew those parallels is bafflingly beyond me.

Nope, but how you can claim to know better than me when it comes to skydiving is beyond me....Get my point now? We are talking about doing something while SKYDIVING! That is something I know tons more than you about.

If I were so stupid as to claim to know more about music than you, just like you are doing with me and skydiving...Well then you would have a point.

BTW, the grammy thing is cool.

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In *your* view I increase my risk. In my view, I reduce it, and equally importantly, I enjoy the skydive more than I would have otherwise.

And of the two of us, who is better suited to judge the dangers what could happen while SKYDIVING?

Get my point? Your grammys are cool...Really. But they do not help you decide what risks there are in skydiving....Just like my AFF rating does not help me play guitar, your grammy's will not help you during a skydive.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Reginald 0]

Thought I'd jump in for grins here.

Does anyone turn their car radio down when they are looking for a house or doing something non routine that requires concentration?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[DSE 5]

Y'know, I was really done with this thread, but you keep stating I've commented on what you do or don't know about skydiving. That's pure, utter, bullshit. That's just plain fu'd up.

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But music knowledge does not mean jack when skydiving....

I agree, so why do you continue attempting to tie the two subjects together?
but how the music makes me feel during the skydive does indeed affect my jump.

I'd have loved to buy you a beer at Rio Bravo and I'd guess we'd have had a fun musical discussion, but I've not once commented on your abilities in the air one way or another, and to say I have done so is an outright lie and a gross distortion of the dialog. It's unfortunate you don't catch the difference between "listening" and "hearing."
And I apologize that my wearing cans once in an orange moon has gotten your shorts in a serious knot.

Either way you win. I capitulate. Uncle.

I agree, it's indeed an indeterminate value more dangerous to skydive with music once in a distant while when no one else is exiting the a/c, than it is to have the wind screaming in your ear. I've never disagreed with that, BTW. It's also more dangerous to skydive with your shoelaces untied than not.
I'll keep my shoes tied, and every 50 dives or so with cans in.

Congrats on touching Johnny Cash's guitar. Musta felt like placing a finger on greatness. That's really important sometimes. Very cool.

“You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way.”
(Johnny Cash)

[Ms.A 0]

I took my ipod on a jump about a month ago. I had the perfect song chosen and was totally excited to try it out. I pushed play the second before I exited.

It was disappointing. During freefall I couldn't hear a thing. Once I was safely under canopy I was fiddling with the ear piece and whatnot.

It seems like there are songs that speak to you like skydiving does, but truly - the sound of the wind beating my ears, and the whistling of silence under canopy is just as rad.
2 cents delivered!

There is not enough darkness in the World to extinguish the light of one small candle

[Frenchy68 0]

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Once I was safely under canopy I was fiddling with the ear piece and whatnot

That's exactly what one of my concern would be. Spending more attention on the device than on the piloting of the canopy.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Ron 10]

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I agree, so why do you continue attempting to tie the two subjects together?

Maybe because its the title of this thread?

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I'd have loved to buy you a beer at Rio Bravo and I'd guess we'd have had a fun musical discussion, but I've not once commented on your abilities in the air one way or another, and to say I have done so is an outright lie and a gross distortion of the dialog

I think you missed my point or the way I tried to get it accross. You did say that it is not anymore dangerous to jump with music right?

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On the other hand, you'll have a hard difficult time convincing me that I'm putting myself or others at greater risk by listening to music when I'm alone on a skydive

In *your* view I increase my risk. In my view, I reduce it, and equally importantly, I enjoy the skydive more than I would have otherwise.

That has been my issue. It does increase risk, but you have made claims it does not.

I wish I knew more about music...And I am sure you would be able to teach me much....I just don't want someone to think its not a big deal to do something like this. Can it be done? Sure. Does it increase risk? YES, can that be managed? YES. But it MUST be managed and not everyone should do it. Just in this thread a girl just talked about fiddling with the ear piece instead of flying her canopy..That is the danger.

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Congrats on touching Johnny Cash's guitar. Musta felt like placing a finger on greatness. That's really important sometimes. Very cool.

I was just standing there looking at it, when the owner walked up and handed it to me....I just kinda stood there and looked stupid for a second

I don't think that we totally disagree...We both think it can be done, I just think it needs more than just a passing thought to pull off and that not everyone should do it.

You would be amazed at the things I have seen kill people.

Anyway I would like to know more about your awards...Amazing

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skydance1954 0]

I'd also like to put in my 2 cents. A lot of valid points are being made on both sides of the argument. So I'll put in my little true jump story as a cautionary tale.

Back in August of 1985, I was dispatching students from a Cessna 185, and I thought it would be neat to be able to listen to music after the last one left and I would be doing my own solo hop-n-pop. Now I didn't have traffic issues because I was leaving on a separate pass then the last student. I was landing in a different area than the students, and I didn't have any performance issues to do other than open and land my Unit. Since iPods didn't exist, I used the latest and greatest technology, my Sony Walkman (with a cassette inside) and cued it up to the first song, which was "Rebel Yell" by Billy Idol.

Hey, it was 1985, give me a break......

So, the last student leaves, I get my go around, one foot on the step, waiting for the spot to come by, I'm at 3,000 feet, and I hit the PLAY button on the Walkman and leave the plane.

Now, it's important to remember that this is a Cassette tape we're talking about, so there are some few seconds of silence before the music kicks in.

I do my 3 - 5 seconds, pull, get a canopy, and discover that my dumb ass didn't pack it right, and I had no steering capability on it outside of the back risers. My attempts to clear the steering lines from the other lines wrapped around them simply put the canopy into a stall that I couldn't get out of. All right, time to chop. Damn.

Yeah, I remember how to do this.

Look at handles......

Grasp handles.......

Pull Right.......

And just as I do, the song kicks in. Holy SH*T!!! I couldn't have timed it better if I'd done it on purpose.

So there I was accelerating back into freefall with the first few chords of the song roaring in my ears. WHAT A RUSH! But not really the good kind. In the moment, I'd of course completely forgotten about the Walkman and was dealing with the situation.

After a moment's surprise, I pulled left and got a beautiful, round SAC over my head and all was well. Except that Billy was still playing. It really wasn't the game plan I'd had in mind.

That's the story of my last reserve ride to date. My kids have had this evil plan to some day put a fan in my face when I'm asleep and start that tune just to see what I will do.

Seems that whenever I'm at a party and that tune comes on, I still jump. And sometimes my daughter puts it on so she can show her friends my reaction. I'm permanently damaged by the experience. I can't hear that tune without being instantly transported back to that moment.

So, if you want to listen to music in the air, do so, but remember that you might have to do stuff under less than ideal circumstances with this slight distraction in your ears.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[vdschoor 0]

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Does anyone jump with their ipod? i have the sony headphones that are airtight i was curious if anyone thought they would work under my helmet?

If you wear an iPod in freefall and under canopy, I don't want you near me or in the air with me.
In freefall is one thing, cause you can't hear anything anyways because of the windnoise..
under canopy.. it would be nice if you could hear me if for whatever freak reason we get really close to each other and it is necessary to yell at each other..

[caspar 0]

if i can find the article i will post it - its from new scientist. music actually increases concentraion in a car, proven.

there was a table that showed the beats per minute and people were put into simulators to see the effect. i believe that the faster the music the more your brain concentrates, runs faster etc.

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[kallend 2,148]

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if i can find the article i will post it - its from new scientist. music actually increases concentraion in a car, proven.

there was a table that showed the beats per minute and people were put into simulators to see the effect. i believe that the faster the music the more your brain concentrates, runs faster etc.

Well, most drivers could do with concentrating a bit more on their driving and a bit less on their cell phone, DVD player, book.... However, I don't know anyone who isn't concentrating already during a skydive. It would be interesting to see the actual article and what the exact findings are.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[caspar 0]

im just finishing work and getting trollied tonight but i will try and find it, probably on sunday.

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[DSE 5]

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if i can find the article i will post it - its from new scientist. music actually increases concentraion in a car, proven.

there was a table that showed the beats per minute and people were put into simulators to see the effect. i believe that the faster the music the more your brain concentrates, runs faster etc.

PowerDive: Mental Muscle for Skydivers (written by a PhD for those that care about the letters), says the same thing.
As far as studies *not* related to skydiving, you'll find boatloads of data, but that's not terribly useful for this particular topic of music being a concentric enhancer vs distraction.
Additionally, if you jump with typical ear buds, you won't hear much music at all. To successfully jump with music set to a reasonable level and no wind roar, you need specialized cans. Cheapest I'm aware of are 129.00. Etymotic ER6's are amongst the best, IMO.
My own belief is that anyone jumping RW, or isn't the last one out/down, could potentially create problems. Somehow, that not-small point keeps being missed. Maybe not everybody skydives at very small DZ's where there are 3 landing fields, 2 acres for tandems and D licenses, 30 acres emergency area, and 50 acres for everyone else?

[stoneycase 0]

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...It's a soundtrack to the experience...

Hey there...this sentence caught my eye as I read the thread and just thought I would drop an additional .02 into the discussion...(since im workin late this fri and takin a break)

When I first started jumping, I would drive about an hour to the DZ by myself. I had no friends interested in jumping and, at that point, I barely knew who my Instructor was (it would change, frequently) or anyone at the DZ - I was an unknown. I've always been a music junkie - massive music collection, and the constant desire to 'turn it up'. (tons more to prove the point, but i wont waste the space here...)

At the time I was making those drives and doing Tandems/FJC/AFF I would listen to the same dozen or so songs. I made myself a playlist I could get pumped to. I wanted something I could sing in my head, the whole ride to altitude. I wanted to look out the window and hear the electric guitar in Orion, note for note - so I listened to that song over and over on that ride. It worked like a charm. Everytime I hear some of those songs, especially Orion, I'm instantly transported into a C206 on the CA central coast looking down from 12K ft. The doors open, I'm sitting there Instructor in front of me...it's eye contact - out - in - off...I'm skydiving.

I've thought about using my shuffle jumping a thousand times since those days. I've never done it. I doubt I ever will. Orion, and some other songs, are the soundtrack to my entire beginning in skydiving and I've told myself I'll never hear it in freefall or under canopy.

I hate to take sides, but I have to agree with Ron on the fundamental: It's a risk not worth taking. YMMV, but that's my analysis. You can do all you want to mitigate the extra risk the music creates, but risk mitigation is never perfect.

I'll stick with the tunes in my head, but you can be damn sure my hand will be on the volume dial back in the hangar...turning it UP!

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell