fugozzie 0 #1 August 15, 2006 Over this past weekend some things happened that made me think, if you hired a packer and had a malfunction as a result of the pack job and lost my main what would I do? Curious on your thoughts..... -- When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. Leonardo da Vinci Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #2 August 15, 2006 I'd say that if you use a packer you accept the added risk. I wouldn't be happy but its inevitable that when you pack that many rigs, all different in make, you will balls up from time to time. I guess the stakes are just a bit higher than say, a car mechanic or gardener making a mistake in their work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeppo 0 #3 August 15, 2006 I agree with scoop. In a sport such as this, you just need to understand that anything can happen, and no-one can be at fault. All risks must be assumed by the diver. If that results in the loss of your main canopy, then just be happy you're alive to complain about it.What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #4 August 15, 2006 plus a malfunction may not be the packers fault, it might have been the jumpers fault, and sometimes these things just happen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #5 August 15, 2006 If you paid a packer. It's like you packed it yourself... You just don't have sweat on your face. Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #6 August 15, 2006 If you pay a packer, you take your chances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #7 August 15, 2006 ...and had a malfunction as a result of the pack job and lost my main what would I do? *** Kick myself in the ass for not being smart enough to look for it in the air and follow it down. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dayle 0 #8 August 15, 2006 When paying for a packer remember you are paying for the pack job, not the opening. If you don't like that answer, you shouldn't be using a packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #9 August 15, 2006 LOL That was my thoughts too I don't pack unless I have to. It kills my knees. So from someone that has paid for over 400 pack jobs if I lost my canopy (keyword I) I am the only one responsible. Now if my canopy came out tied in knots then I would get down and whoop some ass but my packers love me and take really good care of me. I do't even hold any animosity for the kid that packed me two line overs in less then ten pack jobs. I will probably let him pack one more just so he doesn't kick himself in the ass more then needs be but if I had lost the main it would have been my fault not his MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #10 August 15, 2006 How a main is packed is only one of many variables to having a good openning; speed your falling at, body position at pull time, body position during openning, and actions taken during that time frame have alot to do with openning. If you are worried about someone else packing and creating a mal then do not use packers. As for responsiblity it is always in the hands of the skydiver using the rig. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #11 August 15, 2006 My first, and so far only mal on my sport rig was packed by a packer, it opened so hard that 2 lines broke. I obviously chopped it but was able to recover the main. I brought my rig to the packing tent (Dublin Boogie 2005) and showed them what happened. Packing Kathy's crew was running the concession. Not only did she pay for the reserve repack, she offered to pay for the repair of the lines that broke. Now, do I blam her packer for the mal, Hell no, but I thought her offer was damn nice and spoke volumes for her professionalism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
za_skydiver 0 #12 August 15, 2006 QuoteWhen paying for a packer remember you are paying for the pack job, not the opening. If you don't like that answer, you shouldn't be using a packer. Amen to that! Plus im too dirt poor to pay for pack jobs, so end up packing my own gear. I also pack for jumps from time to time, and once in a blue moon, when someone does complain about an opening, i just blame it on body position . They paid for the pack, openings cost and extra fiver. Some dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #13 August 15, 2006 Quote but I thought her offer was damn nice and spoke volumes for her professionalism. Yep, she definitely takes care of people and will stand behind her work. We really missed having her at Lost Prairie this year. But, like you said, a jumper should never expect that out of a packer. I know that every time I strap a rig on my back it's my responsibility, regardless of who packed it."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #14 August 15, 2006 QuoteQuote but I thought her offer was damn nice and spoke volumes for her professionalism. Yep, she definitely takes care of people and will stand behind her work. We really missed having her at Lost Prairie this year. But, like you said, a jumper should never expect that out of a packer. I know that every time I strap a rig on my back it's my responsibility, regardless of who packed it. Packin Kathy is at the top of the packing food chain. Can't say enough about the lady, or her crew. Her warrenty is part of who she is. don't expect other packers to do the same. Read the waiver R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #15 August 15, 2006 QuoteThey paid for the pack, openings cost and extra fiver. Where do you jump/pack so I can be sure not to have you pack for me if I ever visit MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 August 15, 2006 If you only paid $5 or $6 for a pack job, don't expect packers to do much more than replace rubber bands and frayed closing loops. Some packers will untwist steering lines, but that is pushing it. Packers definitely do not get paid enough to save enough money to replace cutaway canopies. You paid your money and you took your chances! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PrairieDoug 0 #17 August 15, 2006 QuotePacking Kathy's crew was running the concession. Not only did she pay for the reserve repack, she offered to pay for the repair of the lines that broke. Now, do I blam her packer for the mal, Hell no, but I thought her offer was damn nice and spoke volumes for her professionalism. I had a similar experience -- without the broken lines -- at the WFFC in 2005. Kathy really earned my loyalty by covering the cost of the reserve repack. Doug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #18 August 15, 2006 as a packer I will say this... if I pack a cutaway, the user is generally refunded the 6 bucks for the pack job.... there was one pack job for a video guy that I gave him the entire day for free....and still recieve shit from him for that (in a good natured way fyi) I generally dont have to use either policy and most people tip me accordingly cause I look out for em (replace full bags of rubber bands when I feel neccesairy etc) shit when I had a "customer" (also a friend as our dropzone is very tight knit) hurt herself on a landing I refused payment for any of her packjobs for the day even though both she and her boyfriend kept trying to give me money....but then again packing isnt my main form of income so maybe that explains it... thats my 2 cents... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #19 August 15, 2006 QuoteWhen paying for a packer remember you are paying for the pack job, not the opening. If you don't like that answer, you shouldn't be using a packer. Good openings cost a few bucks extra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #20 August 15, 2006 No manufacturer will take responsibility if any part of the system fails, why would a packer do? Parachute openings are chaotic events, even if everything looks perfect on the ground, things can still go wrong in the air. When you get a bad opening from a packer, the only thing you can do is tell the guy and point obvious mistakes (if they are obvious). My Cobalt has 7 small patches on the trailing edge due to a packer not stowing the bridle extension correctly when putting the canopy into the bag. I did not blame him; after all I put the extension because I was psycho packing the canopy. Yes, he could have paid more attention, but I traded the reliability of my own packing to get extra minutes for debriefing my coached jumps. In the end the best option is to pack for yourself. If you must use a packer, at least set your brakes, uncollapse slider and PC and check bridle routing and container closure.Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #21 August 15, 2006 Dayle said: QuoteWhen paying for a packer remember you are paying for the pack job, not the opening. If you don't like that answer, you shouldn't be using a packer. I could not have said it better myself . . .Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #22 August 15, 2006 One my one cutaway I told the packer i was going to deduct the cost of that one pack job (out of 10 that day) from his bill. I still tipped. He was okay with it. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireMedicJumper 0 #23 August 15, 2006 My malfunction, my problem. I don't normally use a packer at my home DZ, but I have used Packing Cathy for the last three years at WFFC and have had no problems whatsoever. I like to use a packer when I'm on vacation because, well I'm on vacation and I have the whole rest of the year to pack for myself. When I use a packer, I always reset my brakes, reset my slider, and always check that my PC is cocked and check the bridle routing. I think that just makes good sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevehend15 0 #24 August 16, 2006 I worked for Cathy at WFFC 06. From day one we are told it is our responsibility if there is a cutaway. We replaced rubberbands, and closing loops. We also spot out any parts of the rig that need repair and bring it to a rigger to fix. I am a very new packer and I hope I can work for her again. The liability is scary but its part of working for her. A guaranteed pack job for 6 bucks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #25 August 16, 2006 I'd be bummed. Probably drink a lot & be a real asshole to get along with for days on end. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites