reserve pin was almost all the way out

[askir 0]

Last Sunday I was making a 4way and the group ahead of us was preparing to open the door, folks had apparently given the usual "pin checks" and it all seemed ok.
the jumper in front of me was beggining to stand up when I noticed her reserve loop visible under the flap of her vector (older style vector) What caught my eye was I did not see the pin as you would expect, I yelled "Stop!!!!" and the door of the Otter remained closed, I popped the pin cover open carefully putting my thumb on the pin near the cable as I knew that it could go if I did not. The pin was only touching the tip of the loop and had already left the edge of the gromet, seal was broken. Another jumper and I were able to contain, close it deep enough, checked that it wasn't too loose and the jump went without a problem, she will take her rig back to her rigger to have it reclosed.
She told me on the ground she usually selrf checks by "feeling back there", in some cases this COULD push the pin up and out of the loop (seen it on old javelins and dolphins.
please have a buddy do this for you...4 years ago my best friend and 2 observers in a cessna were killed by exactly this kind of thing, the reserve came open on climb out and the jumper was extracted, the plane's elevator was destroyed and it augered in with 3 people inside.

LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER

[teason 0]

Had the exact same thing happen to me while doing IADs with my vector II!
After about 3 or 4 loads the plane was refueling and I had to go to the can can. When I came out, I put my gear back on and then thought "well I haven't had a pin check in a while", took the gear off and saw my reserve pin in the exact same position.

When we do IAD hanging exits, we climb completely out of the plane. We are a lettle further out than the crotch position.
This incident scared the living SHIT out of me 'cause I was probably out of the plane with my pin like that!
I've also had that reserve pop on me climbing into the plane. It also popped on another instructor.

After that, I taught myself to feel both pins before climb out by reaching back.
I then bought the first Racer that came up for sale at my DZ!

The guy who bought my old vector is and IAD JM now and he also feels for the pin AND he gets the pilot to pin check him before he starts dispatching.

******** I have to comment, however, that part of my problem can be attributted to doing back to back loads without proper pin checks. We would put the gear on, get a pin check and then do as many as 30 182 loads before jumping**********

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[towerrat 0]

I have a friend who got rid of his Vector II for this reason. He was told by a rigger that this has been a problem in the past with some of the older rigs, in particular this model.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

4 years ago my best friend and 2 observers in a cessna were killed by exactly this kind of thing, the reserve came open on climb out and the jumper was extracted, the plane's elevator was destroyed and it augered in with 3 people inside.

Was that the incicdent down in South America? That was a bad, bad deal. You have my condolences.

What is causing these pins to move? I've seen reserves out from having the pin bumped or shoved. I've also seen it from having too short of a ripcord and then the wearer bending way forward, as in jumpmastering, etc. Any stories out there?

A small strip of material sewn across the bare end of the ripcord pin will go a long way to prevent the "bump out" incidents. Ask a good rigger. Short ripcords should be replaced. I've had one inadvertent reserve deployment, RSL lanyard snagging a Cessna door. Sucks.

[teason 0]

****Warning speculation only! not a proven theory****
I think that sitting in the plane bending forward may be moving the pin. If you take a vector II and bendit forward, you can see the reserve flap start to crack open. The same thing that causes the flap to crack open may also be moving the pin. I think of it like a race track. the out side is longer than the inside track. bending forward stretches the outside of the pack, that's why I prefer to dispatch with a racer as oppossed to a 1 pin system.
And yes, I still check my pins in the plane and yes, you CAN do it with a Racer.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Remster 30]

Quote

bending forward stretches the outside of the pack

No argument there, but that why you need to have a long enough ripcord. As long as its free to move in the housing and its long enough, with only 1 point of restriction (the loop), it should not be able to pull itself out.

Remster

[askir 0]

In this case the cable had plenty of slack...and to the other fellow who asked was this the one in Chile? the answer is yes. My dear friend of many years Hugo Quezada lost his life that day.

LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER

[teason 0]

My cable had lots of excess too. I don't think it was a factor.
For me, it was the demands of being in that position, climbing in and out of the 182 3 times(5 to 6 if it's a 206) per load for for a couple of hours.

I understand that I was in an extreme situation. The first time it popped on me, I 5 hours into a day where I did 85 IADs.

But the observation still stands. Throw a loose reserve pack job in with some humid weather and I think it could happen on any load!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

My cable had lots of excess too. I don't think it was a factor.
For me, it was the demands of being in that position, climbing in and out of the 182 3 times(5 to 6 if it's a 206) per load for for a couple of hours.

I understand that I was in an extreme situation. The first time it popped on me, I 5 hours into a day where I did 85 IADs.

But the observation still stands. Throw a loose reserve pack job in with some humid weather and I think it could happen on any load!

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. My wife and I have both had inadvertent reserve deployments, but it was due to mechanical bumping of the reserve pins or RSL. Of all the rigs I've owned, I've never experienced "pin creep." If this really is going on during normal use of certain type of rigs, I would definitely say it is a design flaw. It wouldn't be the first time a potentially fatal, yet unknown, flaw crept into to the aviation world. Sounds like something that needs to be fixed.