Should B liscense be changed

[valcore 0]

Ok only because someone brough it up in the D thread and I did not want to hijack it.

Is 50 jumps enough to have a B. On top of that is 50 jumps with a B enough to be a coach?

At 200 jumps I am only now starting to feel comfortable enough with my RW skills to feel that I can teach a student.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[mjosparky 4]

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Ok only because someone brough it up in the D thread and I did not want to hijack it.

Is 50 jumps enough to have a B. On top of that is 50 jumps with a B enough to be a coach?

At 200 jumps I am only now starting to feel comfortable enough with my RW skills to feel that I can teach a student.

There should be along line to get on board this wagon.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PhreeZone 20]

The B is at 100 jumps and has been for about 2-3 years. The C is at 200 and the D is at 500.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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The B is at 100 jumps and has been for about 2-3 years. The C is at 200 and the D is at 500.

nope. The B remains at 50. And it seems fine there since the primary priviledge gained is to do night jumps.

You need 100 to pursue a coaching rating.

[mjosparky 4]

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The B is at 100 jumps and has been for about 2-3 years. The C is at 200 and the D is at 500.

B License

2. Persons holding a USPA B license are able to exercise all privileges of an A-license holder, perform night jumps, with 100 jumps are eligible for the USPA Coach Rating, and must have-

a. obtained a USPA A license

b. completed 50 jumps including:

(1) accumulated at least 30 minutes of controlled freefall time

(2) landed within ten meters of target center on ten jumps

c. aerial performance requirements, either:

(1) demonstrated the ability to perform individual maneuvers (left 360, right 360
backloop, left 360, right 360, backloop) in freefall in 18 seconds or less

(2) or successful completion of the planned formation(s) on ten group freefall jumps

d. documentation of live water landing training with full equipment in accordance with
the procedures in the Skydiver's Information Manual

e. passed a written exam conducted by a current USPA I, I/E, S&TA, or USPA Board
member.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

Coach Course prerequisites are a USPA B License and 100 jumps.

The B License itself is 50 jumps.

Kudos to you for not hijacking the other thread!

Arrive Safely

John

[PhreeZone 20]

Ahh.. I was wrong, its been ages since I've looked back at that licence and knew it only really mattered for the Coach at 100.

I've got 1100 jumps and am just starting to get to the point that I feel ok working on RW skills with others.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[adventurechick 0]

I think the coaching rating should be way higher. I have 85 jumps right now, and there is no way I could coach someone in 15 jumps. I am a major newbie.... I would say maybe 200-250 jumps at least to get a coaches rating.

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[mjosparky 4]

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Ahh.. I was wrong, its been ages since I've looked back at that licence and knew it only really mattered for the Coach at 100.

I've got 1100 jumps and am just starting to get to the point that I feel ok working on RW skills with others.

I don't even want to think about how long it has been for me. I cheated and looked it up.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[NWFlyer 2]

I've got no problem with the B license being 50 jumps. Of course, I didn't bother to actually apply for one, just waited till I had enough jumps for my C, filled out the application with the requirements for both licenses, took both tests, and only had to send in one fee.

As for the coach being 100 jumps - I am not a coach, and like others have said, I felt nowhere near ready to help students at 100 jumps.

BUT... if coach courses are being run properly and coach candidates are being evaluted properly, one would think that those unqualified to coach at 100 jumps would not be granted the coach rating. It's not like it doesn't involve training.

Now, whether the training and evaluation of coaches is too lenient is another subject altogether; one I don't feel qualified to speak on since I am neither a coach nor a course director.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DSE 5]

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I think the coaching rating should be way higher. I have 85 jumps right now, and there is no way I could coach someone in 15 jumps. I am a major newbie.... I would say maybe 200-250 jumps at least to get a coaches rating.

I agree. Even at a couple hundred, the only things I feel qualified to coach are:
1. Hit the Coke machine late in the day because sodas are colder than in the morning.

2. Be sure your chin strap is correctly fastened so your helmet doesn't freefly during freefall.

3. Blow your nose before getting on the load; snark at high speeds creates some really interesting designs on your goggles, but it's still kinda disgusting. Take photos, Mapplethorpe fans might be interested.

[Thanatos340 1]

The coach Rating is one of the misunderstood and misused things in skydiving I think.

It has poorly implemented, misunderstood and misused since its inception.

I am one of those 200 jump wonder coaches but would never charge for "Coaching". The only reason I got the rating was so that I could jump with AFF grads. I do feel completely comfortable doing basic two way drill dives with AFF grads. I dont think AFF Grads should have to PAY someone to go out and lay Base for them to work on Heading Controll, Fall Rate and other basic skills.

When the USPA made the Coach rating Mandatory for anyone jumping with AFF Grads but not yet A Licensed is when this whole thing got screwed up. DZO`s immediately saw this as a way to try to extract more money from students. This move has hurt this sport considerably because now after spending up $1,200 to $2,000 to Graduate AFF, New jumpers are looking at having still to spend $80 to $100 per jump if they want to jump with someone else. The end result.. Look at the numbers. The sport is shrinking. (Yes, There are other contributing factors but this is one of the main reasons in my opinion.)

The USPA did help this situation slightly when they changed the rule to allow D licensed Jumpers also to jump with these pre-"A" jumpers but it was a little late. DZO`s have already changed the business model to have "COACHES" available and many now require certain Number of "Coached" jumps before you can get your A license. All this has done is to put the A License and Cost of getting started simply out of reach for many potential Jumpers.

[thelem 0]

I'm a brit, so things a different over here, but I assume you need more than just your B and 100 jumps to get your coach rating? There must be some form of evaulation jump(s)? If so, and those jumps are sufficiently difficult then 100 jumps should be fine. You're going to increasingly get tunnel rats whose freefall skills far outwiegh their jump numbers - why shouldn't they be able to coach at 100 jumps?

[georgerussia 0]

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nope. The B remains at 50. And it seems fine there since the primary priviledge gained is to do night jumps.

Actually you don't need to have a B license to do night jumps. You just "should meet all the requirements for a USPA B or higher license" (SIM 6.4 B)

In my relatively newbie opinion B license itself is close to useless, and I personally know a lot of people (including myself), who does not bother getting it, aiming directly to C license instead. This seems to be a trend. You can do night jump without 'B' as soon as you meet all the requirements, and I am sure I could not coach anyone until I get at least 200 jumps anyway. The really valuable thing is live water training though.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

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nope. The B remains at 50. And it seems fine there since the primary priviledge gained is to do night jumps.

Actually you don't need to have a B license to do night jumps. You just "should meet all the requirements for a USPA B or higher license" (SIM 6.4 B)

In my relatively newbie opinion B license itself is close to useless

I didn't get my A, so the B was useful. But certainly one can go the other way instead.

B qualified versus B licensed, 50 jumps experience and a semblance of landing accuracy is sufficient to do night jumps. It's also recommended for jumps over 15k, again just for the base experience required.

[jheadley 0]

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I'm a brit, so things a different over here, but I assume you need more than just your B and 100 jumps to get your coach rating? There must be some form of evaulation jump(s)? If so, and those jumps are sufficiently difficult then 100 jumps should be fine.

It's almost impossible to fail a coach course. I know a person with the rating who literally flies worse than some real students I've taught. I could write for hours about him. The evaluation jumps (and evaluation of the on ground lesson and debrief) should be much much harder and more thorough IMO. There are only two evaluation jumps, both from Category G of the ISP, but coaches also teach Category F and H. They receive no training on that in the course.

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You're going to increasingly get tunnel rats whose freefall skills far outwiegh their jump numbers - why shouldn't they be able to coach at 100 jumps?

Their in air skills would be better than normal, but still, you can have all the tunnel time in the world and it wouldn't make you any better at teaching first jump courses, how to deal with malfunctions, gear familiarity, spotting, understanding exit order and separation, altitude awareness, tracking, canopy control, etc. A coach doesn't just teach how to move forward, change fall rate, and dock.

I just think that a person with 100 jumps, no matter how well they fly, just hasn't experienced enough skydiving to teach others. I say that at someone who got their coach rating at 100 jumps, and then looking back at it, realize how little I knew.

[Thanatos340 1]

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It's almost impossible to fail a coach course.

That depends on who is giving the Course.
When I did my course (3 Full Days long) out of the 7 taking the course, Two did not pass first time around.
One missed a potentially Fatal Gear error on his Evaluator/Student and not sure about the other.

I have heard about "Coach Courses" where everyone sits around for a couple hours and gets everything signed off but that was definitely not the case in the course I took.

I still think one of the biggest problems with the "Coach" rating is the way it is beign used.

I remember after completing AFF having many experienced jumpers willing to go make a jump with me. My DZO highly discouraged Solo`s. He said you dont learn much on a Solo because you dont have a good point of reference.

Since the inception of the coach rating, Resent AFF grads have two choices at many DZ`s.. Do solos or Pay a "Coach".

Im not sure I would have made it through 25 jumps if those were my only two options. Fortuanately for me, That was not the case back then. I was able to go on fun 2 and 3 ways with qualified jumpers after graduating AFF that didnt feel they needed to get paid for doing so.

I wish the USPA had a "Coach" rating for people who are qualified to TEACH and maybe a different rating for people that qualified to Jump with AFF grads. You don’t need a Thousand Jumps or be a great teacher to be qualified to go out and lay base for a newbie on a two way so they can practice basic skills. All the TEACHING or Coaching in the world is not going to take the place of actually practicing it in the air. To really practice, A good point of reference in the air is a huge help.

And AFF grads shouldn’t be forced to pay 100 Jump wonders to do this for them. the sad reality is that is what is happening at many DZ`s.

Someone with 15 or 20 jumps under their belt just wants go out and do a Fun Simple two way should be able to find someone to do this with and not have to pay a 100 jump Coach to do this.

[Remster 30]

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Do solos or Pay a "Coach".

We've had coach ratings in Canada for much longer then the US has. 2 levels: Coach 1 and 2. I think the USPA coach rating is similar to the C1 rating as it doesnt require a very high level of proficiency.

When I was a C1, there was no way I would ask to get paid for a jump. Heck, once I was a PFFI (same as AFF) I felt bad when a graduated student insisted in paying my slot for a jump afer that!

The C1's role is really there to bridge a gap to the new self supervised skydiver.

Remster

[MarkM 0]

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Since the inception of the coach rating, Resent AFF grads have two choices at many DZ`s.. Do solos or Pay a "Coach".

I think that's changed to where a D licensed jumper can jump with non-A's now.

But when I graduated AFF I jumped at a DZ that pretty much just ignored the stupid coach requirements anyway. And really, I don't know of many DZs that enforced it. If you were jumping with someone good enough, no one really cared.

[georgerussia 0]

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I didn't get my A, so the B was useful. But certainly one can go the other way instead.

It was probably some time ago, as now you cannot get 'B' if you do not obtain your 'A':


B License

2. Persons holding a USPA B license are able to exercise all privileges of an A-license holder, perform night jumps, with 100 jumps are eligible for the USPA Coach Rating, and must have-

a. obtained a USPA A license

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

no, it was spring of 2005.

You have to complete your A sheet and get it stamped, but you don't have to submit it to the USPA for a number. But it's a bit awkward going to a new DZ - invites a lot of scruntiny of you, your log book, your gear.

When sending in the B paperwork, also need to include the stamped A sheet.

[georgerussia 0]

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You have to complete your A sheet and get it stamped, but you don't have to submit it to the USPA for a number.

Your sheet and stamp is your A license. SIM does not say you need a license number :)

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rocketdog 0]

maybe not the license itself. to do a night jump, i think 50 jumps is an acceptable answer.... but keep this in mind....

i went to the Marco Island boogie a few years ago where only a B was required, but landings were on the beach in a marked area. @ the time i had 200+ jumps/B-license and STILL didn't feel comfortable hitting such a small landing area.

could i have hit the landing area? probably. do i think someone with 50 jumps could have? doubtful (and the only outs were the Gulf or hotels!)

~hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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Your sheet and stamp is your A license. SIM does not say you need a license number :)

so was there a point to all this? that's in the no shit, sherlock category.

Likewise then, you have your 'b license' when you met all the requirements. Though I imagine they wouldn't care if you hadn't taken the written test before a night jump.

---
Hollister did want a B before a 24k jump - wasn't clear if B qualified would have sufficed. Did they do any of those this summer?

[georgerussia 0]

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so was there a point to all this?

The point probably is that you cannot do just 50 jumps and then come to get your B license. You'll need to get your A first.

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Likewise then, you have your 'b license' when you met all the requirements.

Not exactly. IMHO you need B license (not just "B license qualified") for coach rating, for example.

Haven't seen any 24k jumps in Hollister this summer.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *