Screaming GO!

[dorbie 0]

You don't even need to be in the door to get yelled at. If you're not hovering over the group exiting in front of you some people will start yelling at you. Pretty sad really. I like to give them a bit of space and immediately move up as the leave, just what I was encouraged to do when I was learning (emphasizing gc on some aircraft for students)

The guys in front of you are saying "give us plenty of separation, at least each 8 seconds" almost invariably at some DZs, and the guys after you are yelling at you to get in the door before the first group has exited.

Thanks to this thread I'll be feeling a lot less pressue to do something I'm not happy doing.

P.S. and my last glance at the green light before I exit on solos also really gets some people animated.

[bigbearfng 18]

I've also succumbed to the presure of "GO"; and after opening too close for comfort from a jumper from the previous 4-way I will err on the side of "rather give it plus 2 or 3 seconds than minus 2 or 3 seconds!
Also as Bill said-I take more than just a cursory look for other aircraft now-after opening and one of my partners found a Cessna aprox. 500ft below him.....so go ahead and yell....I'll respectively step aside and let them go first!

[Shark 0]

Yeah, I think those jumpers were over anxious, however, we use a 6 second minimum and adding more time if the uppers are stronger than 10-15. This is normally discussed during the first few loads.
It sounds like they told you 5 seconds since the uppers may have been light. You go when it's safe, which may be at the end of your 5 second separation.

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Maybe it should start from the top down. Those of you who read this thread and somewhat agree and are Tandem Masters or Instructors, make a change yourself if need be and begin gently correcting others.

Some may need to, but more likely than not they are the jumpmasters. I've yelled on occassion when I witness a novice take 20 seconds. eg. The group in front of him goes, he gets up then spots several seconds, takes a deep breath, then does his 3 count exit. I spoke to him on the ground and he swore it was only 6 or 7 seconds. These are normally newbies, solo students, or newly minted A license jumpers. Noncompliance will normally have you jump last after AFF/Tandem and/or a lecture from the S&TA. The game is safety, and that goes not just for you, but those exiting before and after you.

Shark
AFFI/TI
Skydive Elsinore

[bodypilot1 0]

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These are normally newbies, solo students, or newly minted A license jumpers. Noncompliance will normally have you jump last after AFF/Tandem

When I am doing a tandem, I won't usually let a low timer exit after me, as I don't need them possibly over the top of me when opening relatively high.
They have been known to not take enough time for good seperation when going out last and tend to move around alot during freefall.

Some TI's may let it happen, but I prefer not to.


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Shark 0]

Ed,

This hasn't happend yet, since it never gets to that point. If there really is a problem with the jumper in question, I will assist on spotting on their next jump.

Shark
(former AFF student of Ed)

[Michele 1]

I had a group screaming "GO! GO! GO!" while on AFF. This was one of the early ones, as I was still leaving with an instructor attached...and iirc, they were tandem masters, and the passengers were "cheering" me on as well. I was taking a while, but it also was AFF...

It threw me terribly. I went, but I went badly, and had a rough jump. I was upset on the ground, thinking I had done something wrong, but my AFF instructor told me that I didn't; I was to go when I was ready, and not a moment before. I haven't had it happen since.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[riggerrob 643]

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i totally agree! i hate when people scream "GO!"
when i first got off student status, and had around 20 jumps my first few fun jumps were with friends.
i was still soo nervous because i no longer had an instructor with me and almost everytime when we would count for separation someone (a TI/video guy) would be yelling "GOOOOOOO!"
as if that made me anymore calm


one time i was even jumping out with an instructor (same guy as above) to finish my training, and i stumbled on exit so i re-did the count, 'pilot..up..down' but in the middle of my count my instructor was yelling "gooo...go!! GO!"
i was soo confused

i have it on my training videos, its kind of embarrassing to watch
made me look reallll bad and feel pretty dim

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed!
Excessive yelling on jump run is just plain rude. It scares students and when students get scared, the get tense and then I have to "work" in freefall.
I much prefer the quiet, lazy, boring exit.
Boring exits directly contribute to passing students onto the next level.

[Shark 0]

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I was to go when I was ready, and not a moment before. I haven't had it happen since.

I was referring mainly to solos, but as a student with an instructor that is understandable.
Occasionally I get yelled when I'm with a student.
Heck as a late diver on a 16 way I've even been yelled at!

[Scrumpot 1]

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P.S. and my last glance at the green light before I exit on solos also really gets some people animated.

Okay, hmmmm.... Just wondering out of curiousity, WHY is it that you are doing this?

Trying to picture it myself here, so please bear with me. 2, say 3 groups have just exited in front of you & you are moving to the door as a solo behind them, do I picture this so far correctly?

And then as you get to the door you stop/pause to "look at the green light"?
Do I follow the sequence here still so far correctly?
...Then what?

Not getting "animated" here mind you ...But I am wondering why? -What is the green light going to do for you?

Enlighten me.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[ScottMcC 0]

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P.S. and my last glance at the green light before I exit on solos also really gets some people animated.

Okay, hmmmm.... Just wondering out of curiousity, WHY is it that you are doing this?

Trying to picture it myself here, so please bear with me. 2, say 3 groups have just exited in front of you & you are moving to the door as a solo behind them, do I picture this so far correctly?

And then as you get to the door you stop/pause to "look at the green light"?
Do I follow the sequence here still so far correctly?
...Then what?

Not getting "animated" here mind you ...But I am wondering why? -What is the green light going to do for you?

Enlighten me.

sometimes pilots will do something INSANE called "turning the green light off and turning the red light on" to indicate that it is no longer safe or advisable to jump out. examples of situations like this would be if traffic were to be encroaching or if the spot were getting long. in these instances, your pilot did you a favor by turning the light off, and you should have been paying attention to it instead of screaming "GO!!!" at people.

[nate_1979 9]

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sometimes pilots will do something INSANE called "turning the green light off and turning the red light on" to indicate that it is no longer safe or advisable to jump out. examples of situations like this would be if traffic were to be encroaching or if the spot were getting long. in these instances, your pilot did you a favor by turning the light off, and you should have been paying attention to it instead of screaming "GO!!!" at people.

Happened once, me and a buddy doing a two way, almost the last out, I was working on climbing out when my buddy noticed a now red light come on and told me to come back in... Spot still seemed good, still not sure why the red came back on, but figure the pilot had some reason behind it.. I also tend to check that light now as the last thing I see before the actual jump..

Also want to comment on what was said earlier in the post, saying that the Red means get ready to spot... Usually if I'm the first out, as soon as the red comes on I open the door and start spotting immediately, glancing at the lights watching for green when I think it's good.. I may not have alot of experiance, but I know where I feel comfortable jumping in relation to the DZ and I have waited a few seconds on green, it's just something one of my coaches went over with me and I have taken his advice to not let anyone else tell me where to exit. Go ahead and yell GO! and I'll ignore you.. If you want to exit before me because you like the spot that I dont, just say so I'll move.. But i've found that usually the yellers arnt paying attention to the spot themselves..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Michele 1]

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I was referring mainly to solos, but as a student with an instructor that is understandable.

I wasn't meaning to poke you, Mark my friend. More simply relating my experience.

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Occasionally I get yelled when I'm with a student.

Not by me...nor those I jump with. If you need time, you get time. I'll take the go-around, any day of the week. Besides, with go-arounds, you have clearer airspace...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Scrumpot 1]

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Usually if I'm the first out, as soon as the red comes on I open the door and start spotting immediately, glancing at the lights watching for green when I think it's good...

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I may not have alot of experiance, but I know where I feel comfortable jumping in relation to the DZ and I have waited a few seconds on green, it's just something one of my coaches went over with me and I have taken his advice to not let anyone else tell me where to exit.

Okay, so maybe I'm playing a little "devil's advocate" here, but think also about this....

Spotting for just solely, and simply ONLY YOURSELF is an entirely DIFFERENT matter than YOU (at only 50 jumps total) being #1 in the door for a whole Otter load of 23; consisting of 6 varying discipline groups, PLUS an AFF & 2 tandems BEHIND you!

Okay, so let's even say you do already have the skill-set available to SPOT FOR YOURSELF (which BTW, I highly doubt) & you can call it PERFECTLY, so as to put YOURSELF just in the right postition so as to have the pristine exit, FF, then opening to set up for that PERFECT (again- for YOU) "down-wind, then 90' dog-leg, then another 90' for final" in-the-peas landing. ...Do you have ANY CLUE as to what that has now done to THE REST OF THE LOAD?

Obviously a rhetorical question. Because I've already got the answer for you!!

People, there's a whole LOT more to think about today in jumping. Especially from larger A/C (Otters & bigger) when you are (supposedly) "spotting". You know, I've already told myself (several times in fact) that I was gonna STOP posting >midnight my local time, yet some of you "newbs" (and I really don't mean to be disparaging) just keep me coming back!

I'm gonna rest-up here just a bit. If anyone else wants to "chime in" here, PLEASE, feel free to be my guest. I'll come back in tomorrow, cause you know what? ...I've got a couple o' more posts to "answer" in here before I'm done.

I will say this though: PEOPLE HAVE TO STOP BEING NOTHING MORE THAN LEMMINGS!! In EITHER DIRECTION ON THIS SUBJECT!!

I can see where the original poster was going with this, and I think, we have lost track of that just a little here. It made some sense, in "principle" ...right up until just of late with maybe the last couple of posts jumping in here, with their "anecdotes" which IMHO are deviating & mixing some apples & oranges as to what was originally being said.

Like I say, I'll come back in here in the morning maybe when I'm a bit rested. You guys indeed do have me on one here that I am looking seriously forward to discussing some more though!
Until then...

Blue Skies all,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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sometimes pilots will do something INSANE called "turning the green light off and turning the red light on"

Psssst.... Scott, I know you mean well, but please, let "Dorbie" answer for himself. Trust me on this one. I know what you are saying relative to the light MAYBE being "flicked" to red. But I don't think THAT had anything to do with what he was saying; and further, that was also not anywhere near where I was headed here though. Dorbie is the one that made the statement. Can we maybe hear from him what his reasoning (and thinking) was, so that we can more appropriately go from there?

I think we all understand that if the pilot just got an urgent ATC call or something that if he flicks the green light instead to red, we probably SHOULD be able to recognize that. But again, THAT is not what was being said here. Re-read Dorbie's post & then my question. ...I'd still like to see that question answered by him.

I know my "tag line" says it, ...but it is a joke.
I'm not really all that dense!

-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[tdog 0]

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...yet some of you "newbs" (and I really don't mean to be disparaging) just keep me coming back!

I'm gonna rest-up here just a bit. If anyone else wants to "chime in" here, PLEASE, feel free to be my guest. I'll come back in tomorrow, cause you know what? ...I've got a couple o' more posts to "answer" in here before I'm done.

Grant,

Sorry us "newbs" are ruining it for ya... No one needs to get so worked up over a silly forum.

Can I buy you a beer to compensate you for the fact some of us are still learning here, and as we slowly take off the training wheels you might see us make a mistake or two???

T.

[Scrumpot 1]

Naw, nobody's "ruining" anything for me... at least as far as it goes relative to posting in here. If you think I am "worked up", then you take me entirely wrong. Doesn't mean I won't be happy to collect that beer from you someday!

Seriously though... Dorb, and "Nate" in particular... Have you guys thought any of this through any further? I'm not "flaming", I promise! You guys have actually touched on something here, that I HONESTLY do think is worthy of further discussion & consideration.

To quote a "wise newb" in here (AggieDave ...Thank you buddy): "There are a lot more people who are reading and taking things away from these threads than just those who post."

So, c'mon guys ...DON'T stick your heads in the sand now. We've started this ...Let's continue it. If you've got perspectives to share, I'm willing to talk them through, and I'm willing to LEARN myself in here too!

I've posed my questions. Seriously. Anyone want to take up the task of answering 'em? Obviously I'd prefer the original posters to whom I asked the questions of, but if you think you have a bead on where this is going, like I said ...please, chime in!

No need to be afraid of little ol' me. I won't bite, ...I promise! And that's what these forums are for, aren't they? ---Posting, thinking, considering and LEARNING! I happen to just find this thread actually both "interesting" and WORTH WHILE.

Ruining it for me? Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. Only if you are telling me that the "exchange" is instead not doing you any good, or you don't care. That would be the only condition T, that would be ruining anything in here for me.

Blue Skies (and free beers ALWAYS sounds good!),
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[plowdirt 0]

I wanted to get in on this so I picked you ED, figured you may have heard of this: We have been tought about seperation and the dive plan and how to figure those things out. But, I over heard OZ talking to a friend of mine saying that as far as seperation watch the angle, 45degrees is about right. I watch my counts give people six or more sometimes, but that angle is about right.

And as far as anything else, If you don't feel safe don't go. Thats what I was tought.

[Shark 0]

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....as far as seperation watch the angle, 45degrees is about right.

Are you wearing Nomex?

[nate_1979 9]

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Seriously though... Dorb, and "Nate" in particular... Have you guys thought any of this through any further? I'm not "flaming", I promise! You guys have actually touched on something here, that I HONESTLY do think is worthy of further discussion & consideration.

Ok, your right, I only have 50 jumps, I dont know as much as you all with way more jumps, I do however pay attention to things such as wind speeds etc and I know that if I get out too soon and have some wind to fight I dont wanna be super far away from DZ.. But your right, I still have tons more to learn, and yes I do take into consideration the rest of the load. I dont feel that I've ever "screwed over" my load, usually as soon as the green is on I'm out the door if solo. I think one of the main reasons I wrote that post was actually in reply to someone who said you should start spotting on green, .. I personally think you should have already cleared the spot by the time the light turns green, and if I'm first out that's what I do.. The big thing for me though is that I am never going to be one of those people who just blindly jumps out of the plane because the lights green (unless I'm jumping with others and am not in a position to look myself), screw that..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[mjosparky 4]

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I wanted to get in on this so I picked you ED, figured you may have heard of this: We have been tought about seperation and the dive plan and how to figure those things out. But, I over heard OZ talking to a friend of mine saying that as far as seperation watch the angle, 45degrees is about right. I watch my counts give people six or more sometimes, but that angle is about right.

And as far as anything else, If you don't feel safe don't go. Thats what I was tought.

Do a search and learn all about 45 %. And I hope you are not trying to be funny and really what to learn.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Zep 0]

Nice thread, Brings back memories, at my local DZ the only people who
would shout GO are visitors an they get educated very quickly

This DZ is an exception to the rule, as experienced freeflyers exit first
an anyone who has the balls or is impatient enough to shout at worldclass
freeflyers will get spoken to (discretly)

I learnt to spot at Netheravon back in the days of the wdi (woody)
an being a military DZ an very boystrious, many a time the JM whilst spotting
would recieve a boot in the back an become a human wdi
OK at Nethers back in the 80's the only obsticals were the church an the center itself
an this kind of behaviour would'nt be tollerated at a public DZ
but it went a long way for this low level (at the time) jumper to see a
more comical (read: if they can be so flipant at exit time why should I be nervous)
side to skydiving



sorry I think I just drifted the thread

Gone fishing

[plowdirt 0]

No Sparky No BS, I learn as much as I can about this sport, I'm on the search.

[plowdirt 0]

O.K. Sparky search done lesson learned, factors are jump run speed, uppers, jump run. Thanks

[DanglesOZQld 0]

5 seconds is a MINIMUM delay in my book and I would be very pissed off if I heard a person yelling out to another in the plane "go" at 2 seconds count or short of what you were told. Rules are there for a reason and guidelines such as separation counts are imperative if we are to avoid problems with being too close to each other and such on opening.To me 5 seconds doesn't sound like enough time between exits on (even!) a load of up to 20 jumpers.
I jump an aircraft of 19 most days of the year and know what it is like to be hosed on a spot. At times you just have to accept that someone is human and may not judge everything correctly to get all the meatbombs back to meatbomb central......and those with "experience" should know that it comes with the sport and to shut the hell up when someone is exiting?......

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[mjosparky 4]

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O.K. Sparky search done lesson learned, factors are jump run speed, uppers, jump run. Thanks

If you keep looking and listening, there is a wealth of information available. Any more questions, PM me. If I don't know the answer, we can both figure out where to find it.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals