Screaming GO!

[jdfreefly 1]

Now, I don't scream go at these people, but one thing that really pisses me off, are formation skydivers who grip and regrip and regrip again in the door.

I don't have a lot of rw experience, but the experience I do have tells me that this is a direct result of not spending enough time on the ground dirt diving the exit. And since they did not properly prepare for this skydive, they are going to screw everyone else while they try to figure things out in the door.

Once in a while, I can except, but if there is a team that does this on every load, I get really pissed!

I still don't shout at them on jump run, but it will earn them a very stern talking to. I may even wiggle my finger at them.

I am all for doing back to backs and training hard, but don't let your training disrupt everyone else.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[tdog 0]

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Now, I don't scream go at these people, but one thing that really pisses me off, are formation skydivers who grip and regrip and regrip again in the door.

How about you have them go out first and have the pilot take into consideration the climb out time on the spot. We had a 4 way take 20 seconds today, but since they asked for a 15 second climb out - we all had great spots... Now, everyone seemed to be counting to see if they knew how much time they really needed. They were pretty close. Whenever someone askes for a 5 second climbout, they always need 10 or more.

I rather them take all the time they need to have a great dive as long as that time is accounted for in the jump run timing. Now, put three 4 ways on the plane, and all bets are off.

T.

[sweep 0]

I consider myself very lucky to be learning to jump at a cessna DZ where we still are in the days of the WDI and there is no GPS used. Means I have already picked up a good grounding in the art of spotting.

I am always at the door, counting, watching and ready to climb out in good time to leave at the right separation as soon as the group before me leaves. I jumped with a friend with fewer jumps than me out in Portugal over Christmas, the first group out was an 8-way (UK) and the uppers were strong. We had agreed on 10s between groups. The person organising the 8-way had the door open and was watching the spot when the green light came. He considered we were short and continued to wait. A freeflyer/swooper behind me started screaming "EXIT EXIT EXIT YOU F***ING EXIT!". The 8-way continued to wait and watch. "YOU EXIT NOW! GO GO GO!". They continued to watch. "YOU LOOK OUT AGAIN I THROW YOU OUT!". They continued to watch. Probably 15s after the green light they climbed out and left.

As they cleared the tail I could see we were just coming upwind of the very bottom of the DZ. We sat in the door, my friend, obviously hassled by the shouting, started with "Ready" as I counted 4 thousand. I pulled him back and continued to count, starting the "Ready" on 8000. We exited exactly on 10 and were directly overhead halfway up the landing area.

I jump a fury and made very little forward motion at all. Had we exited on my friend's count I would have been just onto the very downwind end of the DZ. Had the first group gone on green and even if I'd counted the 10s there is no way I would have made the DZ.

The first group all jumped smaller canopies, yet not one of them made it more than 1/4 of the way up the DZ on straight in approaches.

My opinions (for what they're worth) :
-remember novice jumpers may not make much forward motion under canopy and may need to be out deeper on windy days. On a lift with lots of groups it may be worth them being further up the plane than an experienced jumper would be for the same descent.

-don't shorten exit counts particularly following a larger group, 2-ways should be tracking off jumprun, on an 8-way you can guarantee people are coming towards you.

-Green light is Clear Drop. If it happens to also be over the spot, ideal

-there's simply no need for shouting and screaming! You can always go round or ask to go first...

-And I would always check the green light again before exit - in a cessna you can hear the pilot shouting an abort, in a G92 or bigger they're a lot further away. That said I wouldn't pause to do so, I build it into my count....


Sweep

----
Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[popsjumper 2]

Ok...this is one of my pet peeves also. While I would hesitate to delay my count because of inane GO-GO-GO yelling thereby hosing someone up, I would also not let it distract me from jumping when I'm supposed to with respect to vertical separation.

I have read and learned from this thread....

Three things stand out:
1. Spotting is a skill that is learned. If you cannot spot properly, go get yourself thoroughly trained. You are responsible for your own exit and dive safety. While pilots can, and usually do, have a good grip on when to turn the green on, they are not infallible - check your own spot.

2. Leave the door on time if the spot is good with the proper separation as determined by jump run direction, wind conditions, load groups, etc..

3. Those of you in the back of the load, regardless of #jumps, ratings or anything else usually have no idea where the plane is and have NO business yelling anything except in cases of emergency (aborts, gear problems, etc.). The green light only means the pilot thinks you're at a good, clear spot and is giving you the option to leave the plane. Again, you are responsible for your own exit and dive safety.

I will again discuss this with my Instructors and S&TA at my DZ to get additional info/training as needed.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Okay, so let's even say you do already have the skill-set available to SPOT FOR YOURSELF (which BTW, I highly doubt)

Surely you're not suggesting that students would be signed off on spotting without actually being taught how to spot?

If an instructor does not trust his/her student's ability to spot, that instructor should not sign off the student for their A license. If spotting is a lost art, it is because too many instructors have failed to teach it properly in recent years.

[tdog 0]

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Okay, so let's even say you do already have the skill-set available to SPOT FOR YOURSELF (which BTW, I highly doubt)

Surely you're not suggesting that students would be signed off on spotting without actually being taught how to spot?

If an instructor does not trust his/her student's ability to spot, that instructor should not sign off the student for their A license. If spotting is a lost art, it is because too many instructors have failed to teach it properly in recent years.

Since you opened a can of worms by finding this year old thread and posting... I'll bite... Can you tell me about the lost art of spotting?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I'll bite... Can you tell me about the lost art of spotting?

First, you need an aerial photo of your dropzone, with a known scale (knowing the length of the runway offers a known scale.), and a winds aloft report.

Alternately, you can start with a Wind Drift Indicator. If you don't know what this is, ask an old time skydiver.

Spotting is about knowing where you want to exit and open. Every jumper should have this information prior to boarding the aircraft. Every jumper should know how to obtain this information prior to receiving their A license.

For Great Deals on Gear

[tdog 0]

Then we are on the same page...

I have never used a WDI myself, but I done the rest... Makes sense... It was an old time skydiver who once asked me, "how long is the runway?" I told them... She said, "and why does it matter?" I said, I really did not know, since I was not flying the plane...

She told me, "well, if the runway is 4800 feet, and you want 1000 feet of separation, you can break the runway into 5 1000 footish chunks and know how much ground track you need on jump run... Also, knowing how many seconds it takes you to go 1000 feet will give you your ground speed, and if you know the speed of the plane, then you have the winds aloft too..."

So, I am glad people like this share the tricks of the trade... Any more you got up your sleeve???

[Scrumpot 1]

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Surely you're not suggesting that students would be signed off on spotting without actually being taught how to spot?

Being able to "spot for themselves", sure. Or at least so they SHOULD (be able to). But be able to fully understand exit separation and its implications so as to be "the spotter" on say an entire Otter load of 5-6 sticks of varying disciplines? No. Nor should they, and that is not the requirement for signing off on their A Licenses at all.

If my entire (wow, this is old ) post is read, and within context of who/what I was replying to, and not just it's one-line cut-n-paste, I still stand by it, and actually think we are on the same page too. -No?

Entire load spotting, and self-spotting a C-182 just for yourself (which is, in reality all that is required for the A-License sign-off) are entirely 2 different things.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Surely you're not suggesting that students would be signed off on spotting without actually being taught how to spot?

Being able to "spot for themselves", sure. Or at least so they SHOULD (be able to). But be able to fully understand exit separation and its implications so as to be "the spotter" on say an entire Otter load of 5-6 sticks of varying disciplines? No. Nor should they, and that is not the requirement for signing off on their A Licenses at all.

If my entire (wow, this is old ) post is read, and within context of who/what I was replying to, and not just it's one-line cut-n-paste, I still stand by it, and actually think we are on the same page too. -No?

Entire load spotting, and self-spotting a C-182 just for yourself (which is, in reality all that is required for the A-License sign-off) are entirely 2 different things.

They are essentially the same thing. There obviously needs to be a larger acceptable area for the larger plane, unless multiple passes are made, but the same principles apply. You still don't want to end up too short or too long.

[Andy9o8 2]

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...you can start with a Wind Drift Indicator. If you don't know what this is, ask an old time skydiver.

Using a wind drift indicator is a snap:
1. Strap a static line T-10 onto a student.
2. At about 2,500 feet, fly upwind on a line to take you directly over the peas.
3. When you get over the peas, kick the Our Hero out the door. Don’t forget to hook up the static line, or the joke will really be on him! (and you’ll have wasted a perfectly good jump run).
4. Wherever Our Hero lands off the peas, the spot will be roughly the same distance off the peas in exactly the opposite direction.
5. Repeat as needed.
If you absolutely must, you can substitute a wooden dowel with a long streamer attached to it. Takes the sport out of it, though.

[teason 0]

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Alternately, you can start with a Wind Drift Indicator. If you don't know what this is, ask an old time skydiver.

I have this saying......

If you don't know what a Wind drift indicator is .....It's you!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[teason 0]

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If you absolutely must, you can substitute a wooden dowel with a long streamer attached to it. Takes the sport out of it, though.

That's pretty pc of you, I was told 3-4 pages of playboy were the right wieght!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[BirdBoi 0]

Ive never had this happen to me at any DZ in the uk (maybe havnt jumped enough to know) and never at emporia.

One jump that stands out was one of my fist three ways just after i got my Fs1 , every1 else was of the same experience. We took forever in the door as sum1 made a fumble and sum1 didnt see the key, we didnt get shouted out in the plane every1 was fine and some very experienced jumper were on there. However we got a Bollo*ing from one of our instuctors on the ground which we all knew was cumming, i think this should be the way forward rather that screaming at sum1 in the plane, they have to remeber they were a newbie once and everyone has different experience levels! Saftey should be the main priority, was there enough space, spot ect..

I have seen alot of experienced jumpers that tend to look down on you cause your a newbie Why is this, you would have thought it would be the opposite. Its only from them passing the knowlegde on that this sport can evolve.
Maybe im wrong but i know a few people that think this is the case awsell.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

... unfortunately, I have to admit, I've been on both sides of this one...

Anyway, I've noticed something in skydiving that I also noticed after being out in the real world for a few years after college. That is, a lot of the times, skydiving or the workplace, you'll likely to take sh*t from those so called more experienced then you, when in reality, a lot of those folks really only have a few years on you and don't really know as much as they think they do, they just know enough to puff themselves up a bit...

... anyway, I said I've been on both sides of this... what happened... I grew up a little... Now I just shine it on if I'm in the door and getting yelled at to go. Don't get out and do something stupid, e.g. sacrifice seperation, because someone is screaming go when its not an emergency. I'd love to see Bill deal with this as he described up-post... that would be a hoot... I'd even take a bit of a walk back to the DZ laughing all the way to see that.

Yelling back doesn't do any good. Talking to them nicely and quietly when you get back on the ground helps most all the time. Sometimes, if its possible, I let em go in front of me the next time.

There's a lot of things more worse in life to worry about then the occasional bad spot.

[Andy9o8 2]

Thought I'd revive this, since someone just posted a thread on the subject today. It's a discussion we need to keep having from time to time, I think.

[DSE 5]

Funny this came up...
Was in Picton last week, and a group of freeflyers started screaming "GO!" during jump run. I was supposed to have been doing a 2way, but my partner got a little freaked by the yelling (never had heard that before) and she left before me. We caught up in mid air, and then were promptly bitched at on landing for being too close to a 4 way team.
On the other side of that, jumped out in Nagambie, trusting the spot (after all, the previous jump had been fine

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[akarunway 1]

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Funny this came up...
Was in Picton last week, and a group of freeflyers started screaming "GO!" during jump run. I was supposed to have been doing a 2way, but my partner got a little freaked by the yelling (never had heard that before) and she left before me. We caught up in mid air, and then were promptly bitched at on landing for being too close to a 4 way team.
On the other side of that, jumped out in Nagambie, trusting the spot (after all, the previous jump had been fine

Yeah. One broken femur. I will go when ready anymore. Fuck em all

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[popsjumper 2]

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...Using a wind drift indicator is a snap:
1. Strap a static line T-10 onto a student.
2. At about 2,500 feet, fly upwind on a line to take you directly over the peas.
3. When you get over the peas, kick the Our Hero out the door. Don’t forget to hook up the static line, or the joke will really be on him! (and you’ll have wasted a perfectly good jump run).

They used the shotgun approach when I was a student. There were 4 of us in class and they threw us all out, spaced about 10 seconds apart

The process was:
OK, #3 went out over the shit pond and landed close to the peas. We'll use him on this run. We'll take a 290 @ .5 past.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Yeah. One broken femur. I will go when ready anymore. Fuck em all

I'm confused. Who broke the femur, you or him?

I've had a number of out landings. None have resulted in injury. If it was you that got injured, what were the circumstances? I see you jump a 135. How high of a loading is that for you? My loading is moderate, but I can do a braked accuracy type approach into very tight places.

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[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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...last week, and a group of freeflyers started screaming "GO!" during jump run. I was supposed to have been doing a 2way...

Anyone talk to the group that started screaming "GO"??

[rehmwa 2]

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One more thing, all you TMs out there that are guilty of shouting/screaming at people in the door, do you really think it puts your passenger at ease to have their TM screaming frantically a few seconds before exit?

bears repeating - an instructor screaming out completely lacks professionalism

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants