DrewEckhardt 0 #26 December 6, 2006 Quote The problem is, newbies are told that they "need" freefly safe gear and they "need" zp canopies right off the bat. I bought my last Javelin for $700 and change with a Raven reserve. Finding something like a Reflex with a PD reserve in that price range would not have been too difficult. The last ZP main I sold (Batwing) went for $300 and change. Whlie there isn't a lot of gear out there for that price, $1000 doesn't preclude finding a freefly safe rig and ZP canopy. It's just likely to be 10+ years old (perhaps much of that spent in a closet), not be fully articulated with stainless steel hardware and cutin laterals, and the main will not open and fly as nice as a newer design. Quote While new gear is the ideal choice, older gear is not inherently unsafe. Older gear has limitations, but as long as a person skydives within those limitations it's not unsafe to jump it. "older" today includes things like the Talon, Eclipse, Reflex, older Javelins, and older Vector 3s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #27 December 6, 2006 >and cost me $3200. My first rig cost me $250 (main and container) and I put a new reserve in it for $500. So $750 for a new rig. After a few broken bones I realized that perhaps this was not such a good deal after all, and spent another $1100 on a new main and container (a Racer, the cool container of the day.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #28 December 6, 2006 Well, yes it's expensive. But "too" expensive is a relative term, based upon one's individual judgement and financial circumstances. If you can't afford it, buy used gear, or find another hobby. Attached is a photo comparing my very first rig, with my most recent rig purchase. The first was from 1978: a used Security Crossbow container, with a 24' Paracommander round main, and a military surplus Jayval round reserve made in 1957. I paid $300 for the whole shebang. My current rig is a racer, with a Triathalon main, and a Raven reserve, all purchased new, for a total cost near $5,000. Which one would I rather jump for safety, comfort and performance? The "expensive" one! It's a lot of money, but worth every penny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildfan75 1 #29 December 6, 2006 I think the subject line for this thread would be... Why do new jumpers insist on buying expensive new gear that they'll out grow in a year or two and then complain that gear is so expensive and that they don't have money left over to jump? I'd rather have someone respect my skydiving abilities than think my rig is pretty. And for the record: My 1st rig--Vector 2, Silhouette 170, PD reserve and a cypress with 4 yrs left--$1700. It is possible to get a more than just barely air worthy set up for cheap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #30 December 6, 2006 My rig cost $1800 with Cypres. It only had 70 jumps on the whole kit. It's not FF friendly, but I can get the container modified for $200. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #31 December 6, 2006 Quote Why do new jumpers insist on buying expensive new gear that they'll out grow in a year or two and then complain that gear is so expensive and that they don't have money left over to jump? They don't have to. I downsized with the purchase of my "new to me" rig so I will be happy with the main for the next 200+ jumps. It fits me like it was made for me. I am putting a canopy in it that is at its upper range, which is a pain in the ass now, but it will be great when I want to downsize down the road. A a pilot main will sell easily when I want to buy a new canopy."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llkenziell 0 #32 December 6, 2006 Haha you're right my bad, I can't complain about any of the gear cause I haven't looked into buying anything =) "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildfan75 1 #33 December 6, 2006 QuoteQuote Why do new jumpers insist on buying expensive new gear that they'll out grow in a year or two and then complain that gear is so expensive and that they don't have money left over to jump? They don't have to. I know they don't have to. I'm one of the newbie's that didn't but for every one of us, there seems to be 100 newbies that just have to have a new rig. Everything new and shiney. Nevermind that you're going to have to spend 45 minutes packing that brand spanking new slippery ZP canopy before you can jump again. Oh, wait...no they don't...I suppose if you can afford a new rig, then you can afford to hire a packer. Dang...I need to go find myself a Daddy Warbucks!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #34 December 6, 2006 That's a shitty rig for $4,500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #35 December 6, 2006 It's exactly what he wants. And he knows what to do with it. Nothing wrong with that. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #36 December 6, 2006 i think most kids who start jumping are in college, and are already broke. the trustefarians usualy dont have much interest in anything besides drinking and sex. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #37 December 6, 2006 QuoteOf course, now that winter has set in here in Ohio, I'm not sure where that leaves me Road trip? We put together a trip to CSS last year Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #38 December 6, 2006 You know, when I first started Jumping, I thought it was very expensive. I realize now that I was totally wrong. The training is expensive, but when you break it down, you're paying for the AFF jumps, instructors time, slots, and gear rental. It works out. As far as gear goes I think it's an average sport. Anyone ever tried to get into Hockey and find out how much gear and training costs? Then throw in a few tournaments and you're well over skydiving. Same goes for baseball, soccer, ringette, etc... If you don't liek the prices, quit bitching, sell your gear and get out of the sport. There is a difference to try and keep prices competitive in your grumbling, but to go on and on is just a waste of effort."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 December 6, 2006 My first rig - one of the original Centarus with a Pegasus and a Phantom $1300 (personal loan, college student) One thing cool about used rigs is their history. This rig was on 3 world records, and I found it in 2 Wally Gubbins films.... A friend has it even now. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jarrodh 0 #40 December 6, 2006 QuoteOne of the safest (and cheapest) helmets on the market is the Pro-Tec - and almost no one uses them because they're uncool. Pro Tecs are uncool?!? I have a Pro Tec! ......Damn...2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #41 December 6, 2006 QuoteOh, wait...no they don't...I suppose if you can afford a new rig, then you can afford to hire a packer. Dang...I need to go find myself a Daddy Warbucks!! I don't mean to be rude, but this is your second post that seems like you have a chip on your shoulder against people that have financial means? What gives? I am sure every one that went through AFF instead of static line progression, or bought a new ZP canopy instead of some clapped out F111 job, is a spoon fed spoiled brat!!!! Just because you chose one road and they are able to take another doesn't make ones experience better or worse!!! Just different."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jarrodh 0 #42 December 6, 2006 QuoteA college student - or anyone who can't afford new gear - doesn't have to buy new, or even "modern" used. There are lots of perfectly airworthy rigs out there for less than $1000. The containers won't be freefly safe and probably won't be AAD ready, the reserve will be an older model and the main will be all F111. Figure $100 or less to make the container AAD ready and $400-ish for a used Cypres with a few years left on it and they've got a complete, AAD equipped rig that is safe to belly fly with for $1500 or less. Upgrade to a zp main when possible. Jump it until they are ready to downsize or can afford a new container/reserve. The problem is, newbies are told that they "need" freefly safe gear and they "need" zp canopies right off the bat. While new gear is the ideal choice, older gear is not inherently unsafe. Older gear has limitations, but as long as a person skydives within those limitations it's not unsafe to jump it. Gear doesn't have to be expensive. You just described my exact situation. Im a college student thats gonna get a Vector II, with a Raider 220(f111) main and a Rascal 202 Reserve. All perfectly safe gear thats just a little old, nothing wrong with that. Im gonna drop a new cypres in it (its cypres ready) because I feel its a long term investment plus my mom is gonna pay for half of it (i love going home for Christmas Im getting this deal from an instructor whom has taken good care of it and whom I know wouldnt sell me bad gear. The container, main, reserve will cost me only 600 bucks. and you all know the Cypres cost so thats about 1900 bucks for a complete airworthy first rig. I think thats damned good.2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildfan75 1 #43 December 6, 2006 QuoteJust because you chose one road and they are able to take another doesn't make ones experience better or worse!!! Just different. I agree, one path is not better or worse than the other. They are different. Unfortunately is seems that some (I said some, not all, I'd even go as far as to say a few) of those that could afford AFF and a brand spanking new rig think that those of us who did static line and jump old rigs are old fashion and some how less worthy to be on the plane with them. I'm just sticking up for the little guy and making sure that people just getting into the sport know that they don't have to keep up with the Jones's. It doesn't have to be mega expensive. Sorry if I offended anyone. That wasn't my intention...at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #44 December 6, 2006 Quote Sorry if I offended anyone. That wasn't my intention...at all. You didn't offend me, I just didn't understand your angle. I don't think you you have to worry about "sticking up for the little guy", no one on here is trying bring them down. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #45 December 6, 2006 My first rig I traded a 10 speed bike for it you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #46 December 6, 2006 Quote....ringette I had to look up what the hell that is. Now I understand: ringette is to hockey as T-ball is to baseball. Got it. Now back to our show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #47 December 6, 2006 Some of those sports weren't as expensive in the past, just as skydiving wasn't. Hockey? go play on a pond in the winter, or a street in the summer, with whatever crappy stuff you have in the house that your neighbor's kid used to use. Baseball? that's why we have fields and back yards. A lot of sports, skydiving included, have gotten a lot more organized. More process; a more controlled learning environment. It does even out the learning curve for folks, and in some cases make the risk a little easier to manage. But infrastructure and homogenization nearly always add to cost. And I completely agree that part of what makes skydiving expensive these days is the "need" for new gear and jumpsuits, and packers. Among other things, that stuff makes it easy to jump 7-15 times a day, instead of a 6-jump day being pretty long. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #48 December 6, 2006 Quote That's a shitty rig for $4,500. Congrats, that's the most ignorant post I've read in ages, and I was reading the Titusville thread. Never insult a man's wife, motorcycle or rig.I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #49 December 6, 2006 QuoteMy first rig I traded a 10 speed bike for it Lets see...Parainnovators Streamlite I $250 new Security Unit.....................................$350 new Piglet round reserve..........................$150 used 1983 I think, I jumped GI surplus prior. I still have the Streamlite. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #50 December 6, 2006 QuotePro Tecs are uncool?!? I have a Pro Tec! Protecs are easy to make cool... Peltify them www.ccmaa.com/peltheads.html Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
