icevideot 0 #26 December 19, 2006 QuoteIf the pilot is trying to take it down safely and no one is getting out, I am.I would question the judgement of a pilot trying to "safely" land a plane that has burst into flames.Even though I'm not a pilot. . I am not a pilot either but I think under most emergencies the weight (us jumpers) is not really helping the situation. If I am told to buckle up I would assume there is a good reason. We are only the "pilot in command" once under canopy. Inside the aircraft the FAA is clear on who is in charge. Robin"... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoenauer 0 #27 December 20, 2006 The closest jumper to the door, the spotter, on an emergency exit is going to orchestrate the exit and separation depending on the aircraft type, for the jumpers aboard, but this ends at the instructors with student. In that case the instructors with students, the spotter leaves before the instructors. The Instructors are in command of their student and with that responsibility, they alone make the decision for their student on exit type, and canopy to be deployed, main or reserve. In reply to other post on this thread: At 6K in an aircraft that is FUBAR, please don’t be stupid and track back to the DZ because there are two things that will happen. 1. Everyone on the load will be tracking the same direction and will not achieve safe separation from others. The objective is to exit the airplane, open either main or reserves clear of others. 2. Your are not going to cover enough distance in tracking back to the DZ compared to flying back under a canopy. A final note, if the aircraft is a fairly long distance from the DZ where people are not going to make it back under canopy then they need to land together. There is nothing worst then looking for 22 skydivers scattered all over BFE.Memento Mori Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #28 December 20, 2006 QuoteI said we could come up with thousands of scenarios. You're talking engine out, I was referring to a massive fire. Has an airplane ever burst into flames at 500 feet? Jeez, one more thing to worry about. I imagine that I'd probably still be sitting there trying to get my seatbelt undone when the damned thing hit the ground. Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,100 #29 December 20, 2006 >Has an airplane ever burst into flames at 500 feet? I can think of one that 'burst into flames' on takeoff; another was belching fire from the engine about 50 feet off the ground. In both cases a bailout was not needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #30 December 20, 2006 182 in KCMO comes to mind, not one got out and no one lived.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #31 December 20, 2006 Quote182 in KCMO comes to mind, not one got out and no one lived. What caused the fire?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #32 December 20, 2006 If a pilot tells you to buckle up in a burning plane you are more than welcome to.I'll be gone.The only point I've been trying to make is there comes a time when you have to decide for yourself.Sometimes people make the wrong call.It could be a pilot saying stay, an instructor saying go. When it's your life are you saying if the person you're supposed to listen to, you feel, is absolutely wrong, you'll still do it anyway because it's proper procedure?"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #33 December 20, 2006 QuoteIf a pilot tells you to buckle up in a burning plane you are more than welcome to.I'll be gone.The only point I've been trying to make is there comes a time when you have to decide for yourself.Sometimes people make the wrong call.It could be a pilot saying stay, an instructor saying go. When it's your life are you saying if the person you're supposed to listen to, you feel, is absolutely wrong, you'll still do it anyway because it's proper procedure? Are you honestly that concerned about being on an airplane that bursts into flame 500 feet off the ground? I guess it can happen, but can the odds be compared to many other more realistic fears?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #34 December 20, 2006 piss poor maintaince=oil fireyou can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niu 0 #35 December 20, 2006 QuoteWhen it's your life are you saying if the person you're supposed to listen to, you feel, is absolutely wrong, you'll still do it anyway because it's proper procedure? The person at the wheel is the only one aboard that really KNOW what is going on with the aircraft and how controllable it is. That`s why you should listen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #36 December 20, 2006 Plane on fire was merely an example of a situation where I don't feel "proper procedure" over rules making decisions for yourself about your life.But my point just gets picked apart into, me being an arrogant ass who knows better than procedure, or oh my god what if a plane's on fire.Neither of which was the point."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #37 December 20, 2006 Quoteat 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, Well you did say this and guess what, that shit kills people, when someone freaks the fuck out and start moving around and opening doors and trying to climb out without a pilot command, while the pilot is fighting to fly the plane to the crash site, you need to search for the crash in Celina Ohio about 6 years ago and take a good look at the photos. I will admit bad pilot played a big roll in that one, but it is the placement of the bodys you need to see in the photos. Sucks to be you if you the one in the very back of the plane and the CG just moved all the way AFT and a bunch of drag is now not helping the pilot get the nose down to keep airspeed up, I hope you don't find out the hard way one day, but if you do you WILL BE CLEANING YOUR SHORTS and then kicking the shit out of the fools who endangered the rest. You need a little more airplane understanding!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #38 December 20, 2006 The first part of that sentence was "if the plane burst into flames"Which was merely an example of a scenerio I would make my own decision.I also said I wouldn't shift my weight around if the pilot said I can land this under different circumstances. I'm not familiar with the crash you're talking about, was the plane on fire."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #39 December 20, 2006 Quotewas the plane on fire. Nope! But burst into flames at 500 ft is no reason for you to endanger everyone else by acting like a fool, if your behind me, your going to have go thur me first to get to the door, if your in front of me and open the door and leave and live and we all make it out of the crash site alive, you better be on a fast train to Mexico and go into hiding and I don't care if you are a chick I'll be looking to kick your ass!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #40 December 20, 2006 QuotePlane on fire was merely an example of a situation where I don't feel "proper procedure" over rules making decisions for yourself about your life.But my point just gets picked apart into, me being an arrogant ass who knows better than procedure, or oh my god what if a plane's on fire.Neither of which was the point. That's my ham-handed point. Planes can burst into flames at 500 feet it seems. I think that the odds you'll be on one that experiences mid-air combustion at a low altitude are probably pretty slim. Planning action for bizarre experiences like that distract from practicing calm and collected reactions to more common problems. If 99 percent of aircraft emergencies are best dealt with by listening to the advice and commands the pilot gives, then I'll accept that I can't reason out every possible problem faster than the pilot does and take the pilot's instruction accepting that 1 percent of the time I was misguided. Otherwise I'm second guessing when I shouldn't be and distracting everone else including the pilot by shoving myself into the door.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #41 December 20, 2006 QuoteWhen it's your life are you saying if the person you're supposed to listen to, you feel, is absolutely wrong, you'll still do it anyway because it's proper procedure? It is possible to kill everyone else on board due to weight shift in a critical engine out situation or due to the extra drag on the A/C when you open the door and leave. So not following the pilot's "suggestions" may be fatal to all your friends. Yeah for you, since you lived. If you don't trust your pilot enough to react correctly in that sort of situation or to give the right orders in that sort of situation, then you shouldn't be jumping with that pilot flying. Period.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #42 December 20, 2006 No the plane wasn't on fire.So you chose to omitt part of a sentence you quoted so it suited the comparison you wanted to make?Burst into flames is reason for me to get out.And I won't be running to any train station.I'll be skydiving while you're recovering in a burn unit waiting to meet up with some girl who upset you so much in a thread by disagreeing with you, you want to kick her ass."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #43 December 20, 2006 QuoteIf you don't trust your pilot enough to react correctly in that sort of situation or to give the right orders in that sort of situation, then you shouldn't be jumping with that pilot flying. Period. Maybe I'm still too naive, but I think that any pilot might make the wrong choice under high stress. I'd be loathe to fly with one that I felt would make bad choices in any or every "bad" situation, but I'd accept that even a good pilot might be faced with a split-second choice and make a mistake. I wouldn't get on the plane with someone who I didn't trust, but I wouldn't defy someone I did trust even if I wondered if they were making the right choice. If I couldn't handle the idea that even good pilots might make a mistake I wouldn't skydive.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #44 December 20, 2006 If you read everthing I said.I didn't disagree with this. Post#19 Post#38"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #45 December 20, 2006 QuoteNo the plane wasn't on fire.So you chose to omitt part of a sentence you quoted so it suited the comparison you wanted to make?Burst into flames is reason for me to get out.And I won't be running to any train station.I'll be skydiving while you're recovering in a burn unit waiting to meet up with some girl who upset you so much in a thread by disagreeing with you, you want to kick her ass. I'm getting annoyed enough that I'd almost welcome the chance to block the door.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #46 December 20, 2006 It is quite apparent to me as well as most others you don't have a fucking clue and the point is way over your head for your ability to understand, I stand by my statement and advise you learn a tad more about aircraft before you find yourself needing to know what the fuck to do without killing everyone on the load, some of us have been in this sport a very long time have been and maybe again in a crash and the reason we are here still is because we kept our cool dispite the human condition to flee. it seems to me you just don't like the fact that many posters and myself are calling you out on your Bullshit!you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #47 December 20, 2006 I'm glad I don't get upset everytime people have different opinions in an open discussion that should remain friendly among fellow skydivers.I sure would be upset a lot."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #48 December 20, 2006 QuoteI'm glad I don't get upset everytime people have different opinions in an open discussion that should remain friendly among fellow skydivers.I sure would be upset a lot. These discussions usually don't stay friendly after you've announced that you're more than willing to risk other peoples lives to save your self.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #49 December 20, 2006 Quote It is quite apparent to me as well as most others you don't have a fucking clue and the point is way over your head for your ability to understand, I stand by my statement and advise you learn a tad more about aircraft before you find yourself needing to know what the fuck to do without killing everyone on the load, some of us have been in this sport a very long time have been and maybe again in a crash and the reason we are here still is because we kept our cool dispite the human condition to flee. it seems to me you just don't like the fact that many posters and myself are calling you out on your Bullshit! I'm still quite new to the sport with only around 7 years in the sport; however, I agree fully having been in a couple of AC emergancies and in one no-shit engine out off field landing (aka crash). Had anyone on that load in that 182 paniced and tried to move around or exit the plane, we would have all died. We needed all the airspeed we had to make then turn to a safe field and we needed the trim we had to keep from stalling out at a very unrecoverable altitude.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms.sofaking 0 #50 December 20, 2006 The point has gotten lost through misunderstanding and anger.And pulling sentences out of posts that were not really the point to begin with."I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
