Getting Bumped

[nikejumper 0]

Well I had another first this past weekend and I absolutely refuses to buy beer for this one, This was my first time being bumped off a load.
I was bumped to make room for a tandem, I understand that tandem and students are the real money makers for owners but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm a regular at the DZ and over time drop much more $$ then any tandem? So why not take care of the regulars, that wait their turn. I prob. would not have been so aggravated but I was waiting about 2 hours for a jump, and it kinda just rubbed me the wrong way, Like a said before, I'm still pretty new, and if this is normal for the industry then I guess I better be used to it

Sorry about the venting, I just wanted to know what others though about getting bumped

Jeff

Is it saturday yet?

[darrenspooner 0]

Yup, this is pretty normal for a lot of DZs so get used to it. But go easy on the DZ owners. You make less than peanuts for them. You'd probably need to do, like, 100 jumps before you make them the same profit as 1 tandem. Tandems subsidise your jumping, and without them I doubt your DZ would be there.

[Andy9o8 2]

It's semi-normal, depending on the DZ. It's simply the nature of the industry: students generate a lot of per-jump cash for DZs, so that has to be considered by the DZO. Tandem students who enjoy their experience may generate referral tandem business. That cash is needed to keep the DZ running for everyone's enjoyment. On the other hand, the regular jumpers are the soul of the DZ. A decent DZO will try to strike a reasonable balance between getting tandem students on a load for financial reasons, and being fair to the experienced jumpers. It's a tougher balance to strike when you're on the inside looking out, than when you're on the outside looking in.

[AdamLanes 1]

Were you the last person to manifest before the tandem? If not, then you would have a valid reason to be upset. Once I was attempted to be bumped from an overloaded king air load on the taxiway. I was one of the first to be manifested, and there were 15 jumpers on the plane but only 14 names on the manifest list. The manager asked me to get off the plane and wait for the next load since I was doing a solo. I told him to fuck off and bump the person that didn't manfest, but they flew the load anyway. That drop zone sucked

[darkwing 5]

I just consider it a courtesy to the tandem passenger. I want them to have a great experience, and get hooked on skydiving...

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[John4455 0]

Its more common at a smaller cessna DZ, but as Forest Gump says......."it happens"

How do ya like it Johnny?

[tdog 0]

At a DZ that I visited, where the jump tickets were well below market rates, the fun jumpers just filled the plane after students manifested - so the last ones to manifest would be removed if need be. The price was good for an otter load - I did not mind.

At the DZ I frequent - if we get bumped - we are asked - and are given a discount or something. One time Manifest said, "hey these two people want to go together. Can you move to the next load, I will give you a few dollars off."

BUT - AT LEAST AT MY HOME DZ - Tandems have "Made The Load Go" more times than bumping fun jumpers because manifest is organized and they hold the slots for the tandems before they are released to fun jumpers. I was on a full altitude jump last weekend where there was a tandem and a video and myself - 4 people - on the otter - going to full altitude. Without the Tandem - I would have been grounded...

So Tandems can be a GOOD thing - when they allow the plane to fly when otherwise we all would be on the ground!

[DJL 235]

  Quote

So why not take care of the regulars, that wait their turn.

You'll be able to jump again. This is the one time that person will be out.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[davelepka 4]

Now that you're not a student, you pick up a few advatages as well as disadvatages. As much as it sucks, the DZ has a limited amount of time and lift capacity to service however many customers they have.

If they run out of daylight and have tnadems that didn;t get to jump, they may never return, and tell their friends about their giant waste of time. Chances are, an experienced jumper is more likely to return.

I'd look at a couple of factors before I got too upset -

First, was this your first jump of the day? If notm the DZ was just trying to give someone else a turn to make a jump. If it was, that kinda sucks.

Next, was this the last load of the day? If it was, it was their last chance to get the tandem up, so they had to take the slot. If not, did they make sure you got to make another jump later in the day?

Last, how hard did the staff seem to be working to keep things moving? If they're draggin ass and wasting time, they're really using up your time by being lazy because it's your slot they take to make up the time. If they appear to be running smoothly, and showing some hustle, then cut them some slack as they're doing everything they can service as many people as possible.

[wildfan75 1]

At my DZ, first jump students (regardless if they're static line or tandem) have 1st priority. When they're ready to go, they get the planes first, no matter who is manifested. Like stated above, we want to make sure that all first time jump students have a great experience so they either come back, or tell their friends and family what a great experience they had in hopes that they jump too. And we are not a commercial dz, we're a club, so it's not because tandem bring in more money for the DZO. If we don't have enough experienced jumpers, we can't keep the planes flying, and we're not going to continue to have enough experienced jumpers if the first time they jump they have to wait around all day to get a slot on the plane. They don't understand manifesting, and more than likely they made an appointment to jump at a certain time, and expect to jump then, within reason (obviously wind and weather holds are a different subject all together).

Does it suck? Absolutely. When you were a student or tandem, did another jumper get bumped so you could go? Who knows, but it could have happened.

[kingbunky 3]

same thing with us. we're a cessna dz and we get bumped by pff students (if they're on their first or second level with video, they take the whole plane!), first jump courses and tandems. it sucks sometimes, but we were the students at one time too and probably didnt' realize we were bumping people at the time. it's part of the sport, and it gives you time to hang out with other jumpers. everyone's in the same boat.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[nikejumper 0]

I think my problem is where I took AFF and where I jump now. I learned at the DZ with an otter and now my home DZ is a cessna, So i think I was a little spoiled learning at a big place where they have loads of otters right after one an other. Also my whole load was bumped bc of a tandem with video not just the last person manifested

Dont get me wrong, my home DZ is great, nice ppl. I just have to get used to jumping the cessna with 4 jumpers vs. the otter with 15+

just wondering what others thought about getting bumped

Is it saturday yet?

[Orange1 0]

I don't mind students getting priority, I knew that was happening when I was a student and appreciated it. Also I jump at a DZ where wind can pick up during the day so the earlier the students go the more chance they have to actually jump. It's very seldom a case of being "bumped" as such for tandems, tandems (& AFF students) are on parallel manifest boards and the loads get juggled to give them priority but like some others have said there have also been times I've got the chance to jump when i wouldn't have if not for tandems. It can be irritating to be "low priority", but our guys generally try to keep everyone happy (doesn't always work, but they try), there have been times they've started up the second plane just to get fun jumpers up for example (helps that 2 of our DZOs are pilots). Also I think when we fun jumpers go out we expect to spend the day at the DZ, a lot of our tandem passengers are in town on holiday and have other things to get done. The only times it really irritates me are when the wind has come up too much for me to jump by the time I get on a load.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[pilotdave 0]

Where I jump, it's definitely not normal to get bumped for tandem students... we're much more of a fun-jumper-oriented DZ (being a club, not a "real" business). But occasionally manifest will make a mistake and have to ask someone to get off a load. Usually it makes the most sense to bump someone doing a solo instead of someone doing a 4-way or something... ruin one person's jump instead of 4. At our DZ they would normally ask for a volunteer to get off the load and it's rarely a problem, but sometimes it just isn't fair.

It sucks, but you'll be back to jump again. Sucks much more for the tandem student that waits around all day and then gets told they can't jump at all.

I personally wouldn't like to jump at a DZ that makes a habit of it. A few times a year is one thing, a few times a month isn't acceptable (to me).

Dave

[AFFI 0]

  Quote

we are not a commercial dz, we're a club, so it's not because tandem bring in more money for the DZO.

This implies that the DZO is independently wealthy and does not intend this business to draw any profit whatsoever.

Let’s not kid ourselves; if people are being taken up to jump in return for money, it is a commercial operation, it is a business. DZ’s that have a “club” type atmosphere and are not being managed with the intent to stay open (make profit) are fun to jump at but I miss them. The reason I say I miss them is so far every cool little back woods DZ that was not managed with the intent to make a profit that I have jumped at has either closed or owned by someone else that bought it to see if they could manage it better than the last DZO did.

Little club type DZ’s are fantastic places but so are larger DZ’s – both have pro’s and con’s…

A large DZ that is managed like a business (with the “Tandem Factory” label attached because they make 100+ tandems in a weekend and prioritize in accordance with making a profit) but also has a large fun jumper community and has multiple planes that range in size (Otters, Caravans, Porters, down to the smaller Cessna’s) are the place to be if one is seeking slot availability.

Getting bumped is just a part of skydiving.

It is simple, if you desire slot availability then go to a larger DZ with multiple airplane sizes.

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

It sucks. I don't mind it every once in a while. The worst is when they bump you and then don't tell you until you are all geared up. I put a little more then 5G's into my dropzone this year and if being bumped was a common thing I would happily give that money to one of the other DZ's around me. Fortunately for me I believe SDLI is getting a second turbine for the fun jumpers this year for the really busy days (I normally get on every other load, but during peak times it would be every 3rd load). So the tandems will have the Caravan and the fun jumpers will have a King Air.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[goobersnuftda 0]

I have the best solution to this problem. Everyone has stated the obvious reasons up to this point.

PROVE to the DZ owner that you are worth it. Do your jumps, get or licences, buy a camera and camera suit and get good at it. Then.....guess what ???? The tandem and YOU get to bump people because the student is paying for video !!!!!

You get to the head of the line, you get to be paid for jumping and your social status rises on the DZ totem pole. The DZ operator will recognize your true income and treat you accordingly. Be smart enough to do what is needed to be on that ride :)

[bozo 0]

When I was a TM/I....taking spots from experienced jumpers... it was ok. Now that I have quit doing tandems, being bumped sucks.....but its a part of skydiving these days.
I have never been bumped in a way that pissed me off enough to pitch a fit. To me, its just a little payback.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[JohnMitchell 16]

At my DZ, Kapowsin, I've never been bumped for students after manifesting on the Twin Otter, although it may have happened to some. They just go on the next load, in 20 minutes. But I have heard of a DZ in the state where a fun jumpers get bumped continually until the sun goes down and they are still packed. Any comments from the North end? Amazon . . .?

[wildfan75 1]

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This implies that the DZO is independently wealthy and does not intend this business to draw any profit whatsoever.

The owner of the planes (not a DZO, he only owns the planes, everything else is owned by the Indianhead Sport Parachute Club) has a regular full time job just like the rest of us (and its not in the skydiving industry).
He actually lost money this summer because fuel prices were up and he didn't raise ticket prices. Not everyone has the opportunity to do this, but then again, not all "DZO"'s have other full time jobs.

  Quote

Let’s not kid ourselves; if people are being taken up to jump in return for money, it is a commercial operation, it is a business. DZ’s that have a “club” type atmosphere and are not being managed with the intent to stay open (make profit) are fun to jump at but I miss them. The reason I say I miss them is so far every cool little back woods DZ that was not managed with the intent to make a profit that I have jumped at has either closed or owned by someone else that bought it to see if they could manage it better than the last DZO did.

Plan a trip to Wissota next summer (I see that you're in Texas so I just assume that you wouldn't be interested in Wisconsin winter jumping). We are truly a club. We are not open with the intent to make a profit. We are open for the love of the sport solely. I know its hard to believe, but they can exist.

Absolutely clubs and meccas both have pro's and con's. I felt like a kid in a candy store when I went to Couch and SDChicago this year, but sometimes it's nice to get in that little nap in the back of the 182 on the way to altitude.

But seriously, come visit us at Wissota!

[riggerrob 643]

I told him to fuck off and bump the person that didn't manifest, but they flew the load anyway.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The guy who boarded - without manifesting - is a thief and endangers the lives of everyone else on board.
He should have been shoved off the plane.
A few times this past summer, we refused to taxi until the extra person got off the King Air.

[Fast 0]

  Quote

Plan a trip to Wissota next summer (I see that you're in Texas so I just assume that you wouldn't be interested in Wisconsin winter jumping). We are truly a club. We are not open with the intent to make a profit. We are open for the love of the sport solely. I know its hard to believe, but they can exist.

Absolutely clubs and meccas both have pro's and con's. I felt like a kid in a candy store when I went to Couch and SDChicago this year, but sometimes it's nice to get in that little nap in the back of the 182 on the way to altitude.

Meh, it doesn't last long though. A person can only sink so much money into something before they have to balance it out. We operate the same way in East Troy, at a no profit level - except we fly a turbine. You better belive people will get bumped for students in an emergency though. It's just something that you have to deal with when it happens, which isn't often. Our manifest just holds slots for them in the first place cause we know when we are going to have students. It is rare that something gets sprung on us.

The thing is that a business that doesn't run at break even wont last. No matter how much a person wants it to, someone has to bail it out. Most of the time that doesn't hold out forever - maybe it seems that way to many jumpers because they burn out of the sport too fast. I don't think the atmospher of a dz has to revolve around if it is a club or a large for profit operation. If people want to have a good vibe they just need to make it happen and then DZO/staff whoever need to create distinctions and operation procedures that are win-win.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[jraf 0]

  Quote

Well I had another first this past weekend and I absolutely refuses to buy beer for this one, This was my first time being bumped off a load.
I was bumped to make room for a tandem, I understand that tandem and students are the real money makers for owners but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm a regular at the DZ and over time drop much more $$ then any tandem? So why not take care of the regulars, that wait their turn. I prob. would not have been so aggravated but I was waiting about 2 hours for a jump, and it kinda just rubbed me the wrong way, Like a said before, I'm still pretty new, and if this is normal for the industry then I guess I better be used to it

Sorry about the venting, I just wanted to know what others though about getting bumped

Jeff

Welcome to the skydiving world. You are now a fun jumper i.e.: a bottom feeder in the hierarchy. You will find that you come last after tandems, vidiots, AFF student/instructor arrangements, sky gods and Friends of the Rabbit. Get used to it, or otherwise complain to the DZO about the service levels.

One more thing: if anyone tells you that they run the DZ blow profit or non-profit…tell them to go BS someone else, alternatively to sign up for the now vacant post of Mother Theresa

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[SWATcop 0]

  Quote

Well I had another first this past weekend and I absolutely refuses to buy beer for this one, This was my first time being bumped off a load.
I was bumped to make room for a tandem, I understand that tandem and students are the real money makers for owners but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm a regular at the DZ and over time drop much more $$ then any tandem? So why not take care of the regulars, that wait their turn. I prob. would not have been so aggravated but I was waiting about 2 hours for a jump, and it kinda just rubbed me the wrong way, Like a said before, I'm still pretty new, and if this is normal for the industry then I guess I better be used to it

Sorry about the venting, I just wanted to know what others though about getting bumped

Jeff

The same thing happened to me at Deland a few weeks ago, I was all geared up and waiting for the plane and got bumped. It happens no big deal, its happened to me before at different places. What I thought was a big deal was that they put me on the next load and paid for my jump. They sure didn't have to do that but I appreciated it and won't forget it.

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[peckerhead 0]

Students go first.