Written instructions for students?

[Spudmuffin 0]

Quick question...

I just went on my second jump yesterday. We had a two hour weather delay and I spent the time sitting at a picnic table doing work I happen to have with me in the car. When it was time to go, there was a huge backlog of students and, naturally, everyone was in a great rush.

My instructor, who was very knowledgeable and very nice, gave me a drill of about seven or eight steps he wanted me to perform during freefall. He outlined the steps in the plane on the way to altitude. I wish I could have been "studying" or getting more mentally prepared while I had all that time to spare.

Do all instructors vary their instruction per level per student? (I noticed that I'm not quite hitting all of the points outlined on the course price sheet I was given after my first jump.) If not, it would be so nice to have a piece of paper with what we would be learning that jump, or better yet...having someone knowledgeable to talk with...even if it’s not the instructor we’ll be jumping with.

[bodypilot1 0]

Having a correct briefing before your jump is what should be done by the instructor, and a brief review of the TLO's are done on the way up to altitude.

If you didn't get anything from the instructor besides the briefing on the ride up to altitude, I suggest going to another DZ for your training, or speak with the S&TA about the instruction program your paying for.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[obelixtim 150]

All my students get a written manual with information that outlines their training up to A licence...... and they have access to books, video's and magazines.......the more information they get, the better.........

If your instructor is giving you your training on the way to altitude he needs a kick in the arse.....you should know exactly what to do and how to do it before you even kit up......Your instructor should be giving you a thorough and comprehensive briefing and debriefing for every jump....and there is no excuse for not doing so.....

Don't be afraid to ask.......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[tombuch 0]

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Do all instructors vary their instruction per level per student? (I noticed that I'm not quite hitting all of the points outlined on the course price sheet I was given after my first jump.)

There will be some variation between drop zones because each DZ has their own program. There will also be a small bit of variation between students because each student has different needs.

With that said, the program at your DZ should be very standard, and you should have an outline of what will be covered on each jump. The program shouldn't vary much from the outline, although sometimes the specifics of how it is taught will. If you think you are missing things on the outline, mention it to your instructor. One of the great things about outlines is they can be used by students and instructors to establish the standards expected of each person.

As for briefing a jump on the way to altitude, that is not an appropriate way of teaching. Demand more from the staff.

Now that we know that instructor is a bit of a slacker, I suggest that you end each debrief by asking for an overview of what will be covered on the next jump. If you have downtime, take a few moments and have an instructor brief you on the specifics of the next jump. Keep track of the outline and make sure you are being taught all the key points.

For another outline, check section 4 of the the USPA SIM at http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2005SIM/SIM.htm. That section is the Integrated Student Program (ISP), a national standard of instruction developed by USPA. Not all drop zones include the material in the same order, or break the training into the same levels/categories, but all the material should be covered at some point in your training. You will find a collection of oral questions at the end of each category, and you can use those as knowledge prompts, or discussion topics when chatting with your instructors.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Spudmuffin 0]

Thanks very much, Tom.

It was frustrating yesterday. Due to the huge backlog of students (stemming from the weather delay), my instructor unhooked me, took my goggles and told me to go into the hanger and have somebody help me get out of my harness. He gathered our chute, sprinted in, grabbed another rig and left with the next load. He filled out my logbook on the way up to his next tandem and gave it to the gal in the office who in turn gave it to me. She's a licensed parachutist and was running around like mad, too. (They really were swamped!) She did tell me to hang on and she would look it over with me, which she did...sort of. She basically opened it, read the notes to me, smiled and said "Congratulations, you passed!"

Let's just say I'm happy I passed, but almost wish I hadn't so I would have to repeat the jump. I don't know how "clean" student jumps have to be to pass, but I know I screwed up a few things and would have loved the chance to talk with my instructor. I thought about calling back today to see if I could catch him (I jumped yesterday), but I figured he wouldn't remember me from the mass of students he had this weekend.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I'm just not feeling that solid about my performance or my next jump.

Thanks, again, for your time!


...and the link recommendation.

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[crotalus01 0]

have you asked your instructor for an AFF diveflow overview? i got one when i started AFF, it outlined the TLOs for each jump. after each debrief i went over the diveflow for the next level with my instructor for the next weeks jump.
and i never got my TLOs on the way to altitude - we dirtdived them. i was asked by the instructor to describe the entire diveflow to him on the way to altitude. i found it helped me focus and allieviated a lot of the door fear.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[riggerrob 643]

The wind hold would have been better spent discussing your up coming jump with your instructor.

[kelpdiver 2]

Maybe a better question on the instructor forum, but is this the norm for Tandem Progression jumps? 'Since they got me on their back, we can just crank em out like we do any other tandem customers?'

The weather hold would have been a great time for training, though certainly it would also be a reasonable time for them to get a lunch break if the place was running non stop all day.

AFF2 for me had a very long diveflow, or at least compared to AFF1. Maybe nine steps if you really broke it down. And after 20 minutes with the instructors, my buddy and I spent another hour, I think, mentally rehearsing the routine. If you got enough of them to get a pass, you did pretty well with it.

[Spudmuffin 0]

No, I'm doing the tanem progression, so I'm not sure it will apply.

Here's how uneducated I am...
What does TLO stand for? Learning objectives?

(Please don't laugh...trying to learn here...)

[Spudmuffin 0]

I agree!

[tombuch 0]

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Here's how uneducated I am...
What does TLO stand for? Learning objectives?

Close. Targeted Learning Objective.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Spudmuffin 0]

Thanks, again, Tom!!

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[dubbayab 0]

Did you practice reading an altimiter and pulling the
handle in freefall? Did you participate more on the exit, and getting stable? Did you wave off and pull the handle at the correct altitude. Did your Instructor give you more info under canopy about collision avoidance, and how to flare a canopy? Some of these items are advancement criteria, so if your Instructor gave your logbook to manifest and you were told you passed, you may have!

You should receive a more comprehensive, course in a class, and practical training like hanging in the training harness for emerengcy procedures before you jump your first AFF. I agree with all the rest that you should receive a pre and a post jump briefing from you Instructor. He should write not only things you did good but also things you need to improve upon in your logbook

The piece of paper your looking for with the jump criteria is called a A-license Proficience card. You can download one from www.uspa.org
It would also be a big help to buy and read the most current copy of the SIM's ( Skydivers Info Manual) also from uspa.org. Pay close attention to the ISP (intergrated student program, or section 4). This is the material you will/should be learning. Catagory A Is pretty much is an outline of a first jump course. The TLO are on the first page of each catagory other than catagory A. There are Catagory A-H
Have fun, and welcome to the sport

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[Spudmuffin 0]

Did you practice reading an altimeter and pulling the
handle in freefall? - Yes and yes

Did you participate more on the exit, and getting stable? - Yes

Did you wave off and pull the handle at the correct altitude? - Yes

Did your Instructor give you more info under canopy about collision avoidance? - No

How to flare a canopy? - No

I did get a logbook and he wrote down "good for TAN 3" at the end...or something to that effect. As you mentioned, I really wanted to know about the things I need to work on, rather than getting all warm and fuzzy over the things I did right. (I know, I know...I need to chill.)

I'll be sure to check out the materials you recommended...they must be good, I've received that advice from some other nice folks, too.

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[bodypilot1 0]

Sounds like your doing fine, though canopy control should be covered during your jumps also.

Have the instructor that teaches you your next level do a complete ground training covering everything you have already completed, including turns and forward movement in freefall and complete canopy control, from the controlability check, indentifying the landing zone, all the way to the correct landing pattern for the wind direction that day.
Should he let you flare upon landing is entirely up to him.

And remember it's your money!

DO NOT feel as though you have to be rushed, and DO NOT do the jump until you feel you have covered all of this and feel properly trained.

Be safe.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Spudmuffin 0]

Thank you for the advice, Ed.

Is there ever any trouble completing your training series at a different DZ that the one where you started? I'm not completely sure I want to switch, but am curious about my options. (I do have my little logbook with its one entry where my instructor signed me off as ready for TAN 3.)

Thanks again!

Spud

[bodypilot1 0]

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Is there ever any trouble completing your training series at a different DZ that the one where you started?

Unfortunatly any DZ can do anything they wish, should you deside to switch DZ's and enter their program.

But, if you are jumping at a USPA group member DZ, they may just let you continue your progression as long as you are within the 30 days of your last jump.

Speak with the chief instructor at the DZ your thinking of switching to and they will review your log book.

I am sure they'll be glad to have you in their program if you arent happy at the one your jumping at now.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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Is there ever any trouble completing your training series at a different DZ that the one where you started? I'm not completely sure I want to switch, but am curious about my options. (I do have my little logbook with its one entry where my instructor signed me off as ready for TAN 3.)

If you do change, best to finish out at the second one. I did 4 AFF jumps at Perris when I travelled down to the tunnel, but was one short of getting checked off for unsupervised. I ended up doing 4 more at the original DZ, taking a big step back.

Not all AFF and esp not all Tandem Progressions are the same. But at the stage you're at, pretty easy to change if you find it best for you.

[Spudmuffin 0]

Thanks for the advice! I'm planning on laying out until spring (until it starts warming up), so I'll give it some good thought.

This probably is up to my DZ but I'll ask anyway...

I know after 30 days, you have to repeat your last jump...does the same hold true if you let several months pass? (I don't see the point of redoing the very first "sky tourist" jump...although it was awfully fun!)

[bodypilot1 0]

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I don't see the point of redoing the very first(I don't see the point of redoing the very first "sky tourist" jump...although it was awfully fun!) jump.

Some DZ's dont require the "sky tourist" tandem before starting your training.
Since your planning on taking several months off, and possibly starting at another DZ, show them your log book.
You many be rquired to start over again as a student but and ask them to if they can give you some of the TLO's that are required for you to be able to continue onto the ground training and the AFF portion of the training.
You may complete all the TLO's at such a good level, that they will let you progress at a faster pace then someone coming in and just starting?

Which ever path you take, try and save for at least 2 or 3 jumps before you start again.
Jumping more then once a month will hepl you have a higher learning curve and maybe save you some money from not having to repeat levels.

Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Spudmuffin 0]

Thanks for the great advice, Ed. I've already started squirreling my money away for next year. I can sure see how going more frequently than once a month would help my learning curve.

~Spud